Recruiting - 2016

[TheChosenOne]

This is an interesting side effect of the later withdrawal date for the NBA Draft. Some of these guys are backing out but then transferring.

That seems kind of odd to me. So these kids like Malik Newman who were just recently going thru the draft process are now going to transfer to another program and sit out for a year?

[TheChosenOne]

If there is another player added for 2016 I hope it is a point guard. Is there any point guards out there that would be worth signing?

I would be thrilled to see us add a point guard. I am assuming our best chance of finding a point guard worth an offer would be on the transfer market.

[brianstl]

Rosey Jones was Butler's point guard the second half of the season. Lewis was pretty much benched, and he took over. So what was Jones a 1/4?

I don't know if I would ever say Jones played the 4. More like a wrecking ball at the 3.

[HoosierPal]

I don't know if I would ever say Jones played the 4. More like a wrecking ball at the 3.

He indeed was unique. I liked the description of 'Point Forward' best.

[brianstl]

That seems kind of odd to me. So these kids like Malik Newman who were just recently going thru the draft process are now going to sit out for a year?

Didn't hear what they expected from the NBA people and blame their coach for not using them properly.

[majerus mojo]

Illinois' Kendrick Nunn is an available PG... ?

[davidnark]

I agree to an extent. Crews filled his team with a bunch of 2's, 3's, and 4's and it was a disaster. But I think that has more to do with his inability to recruit and coach up talent. As long as you don't end up with a backcourt of all the same type of player and a frontcourt of all the same type, the classical 1-5 positions don't matter much. I think you have to have a PG to make any lineup work though.

I think the Center position is now the least important position in college and pro basketball. The only difference-maker at centers are the athletic freaks that only land at places like Kentucky. Athletic forwards and guards now control the game. Teams just cannot compete with an offense designed to feed a big guy with his back to the basket.

[TheChosenOne]

Didn't hear what they expected from the NBA people and blame their coach for not using them properly.

So essentially these kids and their families knew they wanted to transfer, but why not see what the NBA option looks like first.

[slufan13]

I could see some of these players having the mentality of testing the NBA draft waters and being told they need to work on A B and C. They then think they can transfer and sit out a year and spend that year solely concentrating on those things and then testing the NBA again before they even suit up for their new team. I don't see how it could possibly work, but you never know.

[cgeldmacher]

I would guess that there are a lot of kids out there that just want to have their friends back home see that they declared for the NBA draft. With the new rules making it easier to do so, it is not surprising that it is happening so often. These kids were probably the same kids that were offer collectors in high school. The ones that constantly tweeted how they were blessed to have an offer from each big school they could snag one from.

[brianstl]

I think the Center position is now the least important position in college and pro basketball. The only difference-maker at centers are the athletic freaks that only land at places like Kentucky. Athletic forwards and guards now control the game. Teams just cannot compete with an offense designed to feed a big guy with his back to the basket.

I still think there is an important place for a traditional 5 in today's game. You don't have to run the offense around them, but guys like Adams and Valanciunas have been huge in the playoffs so far.

[majerus mojo]

I would guess that there are a lot of kids out there that just want to have their friends back home see that they declared for the NBA draft. With the new rules making it easier to do so, it is not surprising that it is happening so often. These kids were probably the same kids that were offer collectors in high school. The ones that constantly tweeted how they were blessed to have an offer from each big school they could snag one from.

If you are good enough to be invited to the combine/a possible second round pick, you should absolutely test the waters. Get some coaching/criticism and head back to school. No brainer

[slufanskip]

I don't know if I would ever say Jones played the 4. More like a wrecking ball at the 3.

But how can he play the 3? He can't shoot.

[brianstl]

But how can he play the 3? He can't shoot.

When you score in the ways Jones does, you don't need to be a great shooter. He doesn't score like a power forward either. His shooting percentage would be considered really bad for a four. He was a slashing 3 without the grace or athleticism we expect out of a star slashing 3. Jones always just seemed to find a way to get to the lane, bounce off a few people and get an ugly looking shot to fall.

The guys that played the 4 during Jones time at Butler were Woods and then Martin.

[slu72]

I think the Center position is now the least important position in college and pro basketball. The only difference-maker at centers are the athletic freaks that only land at places like Kentucky. Athletic forwards and guards now control the game. Teams just cannot compete with an offense designed to feed a big guy with his back to the basket.

But a big athletic C can dominate the game, eg Davis of UK. But finding a Davis these days is comparable to finding the Holy Grail. Back in the 50s to 70s, it seemed there were a bunch of talented C's 6'9" and above who dominated the game. What happened, have we shrunk? My theory is the supporting casts of G's and PF's got a whole lot better, add in the 3 pt shot, and C's lost some luster.

[slufanskip]

When you score in the ways Jones does, you don't need to be a great shooter. He doesn't score like a power forward either. His shooting percentage would be considered really bad for a four. He was a slashing 3 without the grace or athleticism we expect out of a star slashing 3. Jones always just seemed to find a way to get to the lane, bounce off a few people and get an ugly looking shot to fall.

The guys that played the 4 during Jones time at Butler were Woods and then Martin.

I was kidding as some people are saying they don't necessarily want Bess because he's a 3 that can't shoot. I hate Jones as a player, his game is so ugly. I'd take him tomorrow though

[cheeseman]

But a big athletic C can dominate the game, eg Davis of UK. But finding a Davis these days is comparable to finding the Holy Grail. Back in the 50s to 70s, it seemed there were a bunch of talented C's 6'9" and above who dominated the game. What happened, have we shrunk? My theory is the supporting casts of G's and PF's got a whole lot better, add in the 3 pt shot, and C's lost some luster.

Those guards and PFs also got taller making a 6'9" not so tall. Today there are 6'3" guards and 6' 8 PFs. All things are relative.

[Aquinas]

Comparing Bess to Evans: When Evans played the 3 he was most effective taking his game inside when Loe and Ellis pulled their defenders away from the basket because they were serious threats to knock down open 3s. It was really the most beautiful part of the RM offense, where the other team had to move big players away from the basket because our bigs could hit open 3s. Allowing smaller players like Evans and even Jett to play an inside game. When Evans had to go inside against taller players as a 4 he was not a dominant player. He had a career 30% 3 point shot, though only hit 5 as a senior, so it really was not part of his game. He could however hit mid range shots as reflected by his 71% free throw rate and he took the big guy from New Mexico apart with his mid range shot. Bess does not hit that mid range shot as reflected by his 57% free throws last year.

In the A10 level, I think he will be a role player. If he is happy with that cool. Or if he can develop a mid range or even better a 3 point shot, then he would have success as a 3. If he has had injuries that have impacted his shooting ability then that would make him a great pick up. If have seen numerous cases of transfers who failed to meet their expectations at their first school and then failed to meet them again at their second school and even went to a third school.

Our 2 current transfers are interesting because they played well at their schools in good conferences but were unhappy with the direction of their teams. We have every reason to believe they will play well for us.

[brianstl]

Bess shot 47% on two point shots last season, his sophomore season. Evans shot 47% on two point shots his sophomore season.

[slufan13]

If Bess turned out to be a role player in the A10, he'd be a significant roster upgrade.

I don't think we're getting Bess though so it probably doesn't matter

[slufanskip]

Comparing Bess to Evans: When Evans played the 3 he was most effective taking his game inside when Loe and Ellis pulled their defenders away from the basket because they were serious threats to knock down open 3s. It was really the most beautiful part of the RM offense, where the other team had to move big players away from the basket because our bigs could hit open 3s. Allowing smaller players like Evans and even Jett to play an inside game. When Evans had to go inside against taller players as a 4 he was not a dominant player. He had a career 30% 3 point shot, though only hit 5 as a senior, so it really was not part of his game. He could however hit mid range shots as reflected by his 71% free throw rate and he took the big guy from New Mexico apart with his mid range shot. Bess does not hit that mid range shot as reflected by his 57% free throws last year.

In the A10 level, I think he will be a role player. If he is happy with that cool. Or if he can develop a mid range or even better a 3 point shot, then he would have success as a 3. If he has had injuries that have impacted his shooting ability then that would make him a great pick up. If have seen numerous cases of transfers who failed to meet their expectations at their first school and then failed to meet them again at their second school and even went to a third school.

Our 2 current transfers are interesting because they played well at their schools in good conferences but were unhappy with the direction of their teams. We have every reason to believe they will play well for us.

I'm assuming you've seen him play quite a bit to have the opinion he'd just be a role player in the A10. Hell, half this board thought Jordair Jett would never be very good after watching him play for an entire year

[cheeseman]

I'm assuming you've seen him play quite a bit to have the opinion he'd just be a role player in the A10. Hell, half this board thought Jordair Jett would never be very good after watching him play for an entire year

Anybody who did not like Jett the first time they saw him did not know talent. He had trouble turning the ball over early in his career but that speed and size was not something you could not marvel at.

[slu72]

Go see the kids play, maybe? If Bess passed Izo's eye test, we should take him in a heart beat then figure out where and how all the pieces fit.

As for DE, being forced to play the 4 his SR year hurt even though he was still very good. But he was much more effective as a 3. My only gripe with Rick was not redshirting Remekun. Having him at the 4 w/Grandy as backup that last year of Rick's boys would have helped immensely. Those videos of Cory playing international ball showed how much his game had progressed. That redshirt year would have served him well. Barnett would have been the 6th man and not a starter.

[Old guy]

I agree with that cheeseman, what you just said is that half this board, me included, would not recognize talent regardless. Maybe this is why there is such a fixation on the number of stars or the ranking levels.

[Scoop]

Bess might end up back at Sparty. Weird situation but we want Bess if we can get him.