BigMouthBilliken Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 SLU students are so privileged that they are collectively able to do over a million community service hours in the St. Louis area each year. Also, SLU is ranked 4th in the nation among US universities in regards to service. What a bunch of privileged pricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I was really, really, really hoping that I could stay avoid this topic, but my willpower has been overcome. Too often, people take the extreme position. The same is true here..."The SLU protestors are violent thugs and they should get the hell off of our campus" OR "the protestors were merely non-violent observers wanting a forum to express their opinions". In reality, it's probably somewhere in between. Had SLU been confrontational or heavy handed or if some students had become rowdy against the protestors, it's very likely that SOME of the protestors would have turned violent. And conversely, SOME of the protestors probably only wanted to express their feelings at what they perceived to be a wrongdoing and an injustice. It IS possible to see both sides of this situation. Really, it's okay...Personally, I feel that campus protests are a natural byproduct of a diverse, well-rounded academic community. However, I feel uneasy knowing that non-students (and perhaps even homeless people) potentially associated with violent protests are involved. I don't like that SLU had to make concessions to get the protestors to leave, but I acknowledge that most of the concessions will, if implemented, affect the community in a positive way. The bottom line is that there are ignorant, stupid, despicable people on both sides of the equation. In most situations, these ignorant, stupid, despicable people usually only serve to inflame the ignorant, stupid, despicable people on the other side of the aisle. And so it becomes a muddled battle of ignorance, stupidity, and who can yell their opinions loudest. Actuality! I agree with all that, except singling out the homeless people as ones to be afraid of. Lots of the people who really HAVE turned violent are not homeless. I actually can't think of anyone confirmed to be homeless being arrested for burglary, arson, or any of the other serious charges that have arisen out of the protests. I also agree that the concessions were mostly a matter of allowing the protesters to save some face. I don't know what they were hoping to achieve, exactly, but once the University allowed them to hang out for days on end they started to look pretty silly. What were they sitting in for, exactly? Pestello helped them actually look productive here, as opposed to many of the protest efforts that have gone on in the area over the past two months with basically nothing to show for it. At the same time, the concessions are basically re-stating longstanding University values and priorities in vague terms. I don't see the University as "giving up" anything, except for being willing to sit down and talk to the organizers of the protests. Maybe the organizers didn't deserve that, but Pestello and SLU look good as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 There are other sources, but here are a few principles... http://www.jss.org.au/about-us/guiding-principles I didn't see anything about calls for firehoses. C through G seem especially relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 This account lends credence to the whole idea that existing students had a lot to do with getting the non-student protesters onto campus. http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/10/13/how-ferguson-october-ended-up-occupying-a-plaza-on-saint-louis-universitys-campus/ Also, has anyone on the board ever been challenged by campus security or anyone else asking why they were there? Are there signs anywhere on campus prohibiting non-University-community members from "trespassing"? Granted, I look like a certain former faculty member, but I've walked in and out of a bunch of the lecture buildings over the past several years (especially for the year that one of my kids was a student) and nobody ever blinked an eye. PS Where did Doc B disappear to? He started all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I don't know if you can get to this if you don't have a Twitter handle, but there's a statement in this feed from one of the organizing groups as to why they were on campus: https://twitter.com/tribex_stl I wish people would actually read this, so we could stop getting questions about "why did they pick SLU" or "what were they hoping to achieve?" People are certainly free to disagree and I don't agree with everything written there, but you could at least get answers to those two questions which continue to come up in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billboy1 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 C through G seem especially relevant. OK, we get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I wish people would actually read this, so we could stop getting questions about "why did they pick SLU" or "what were they hoping to achieve?" People are certainly free to disagree and I don't agree with everything written there, but you could at least get answers to those two questions which continue to come up in this thread. I've read it. I wish people would actually read the posts from those of us asking "why did they pick SLU?," because the answers you are trying to give are not at all responsive to what is actually being asked. Likewise, I represent one of the protesters who was arrested and have participated in some of the protests myself, so merely linking to a vague mission statement from one of numerous groups involved in this specific protest certainly doesn't answer what they were hoping to achieve in tangible terms by choosing the methods they did in this particular effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I've read it. I wish people would actually read the posts from those of us asking "why did they pick SLU?," because the answers you are trying to give are not at all responsive to what is actually being asked. Likewise, I represent one of the protesters who was arrested and have participated in some of the protests myself, so merely linking to a vague mission statement from one of numerous groups involved in this specific protest certainly doesn't answer what they were hoping to achieve in tangible terms by choosing the methods they did in this particular effort. I think picking a college campus where the victim's father reportedly works to start a dialogue is not that hard to figure. Debates/discussions/demonstrations at an educational institution located in the heart of the city seems to make sense. I didn't really sense a lot of the anger/frustration specifically targeted at SLU. Heck, it has even sparked a 16 page discussion on this board. We can debate about tactics all day, but personally I think talking about tough issues rather them sweeping them under the rug is healthy. Their actions at least started a dialogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 here's an allegorical ejaculation: ONE SHOULDN'T FEED BEARS. you don't feed bears and then complain when they keep coming back for more. bears aren't dumb. but they are hungry. and they'll work as little as they have to in order to get fed. no one should keep a bear from eating, as long as it's not hurting them. but if it's trying to injure or kill you, then you should kill it. YOU JUST DON'T FEED BEARS. if you feed them, then they'll expect to be fed, and any other outcome will lead to the bear doing what it has to do to eat. it'll kill another bear and eat it, or it'll kill the one it expects to be fed from and eat them. almost any bear can be trained if you start young enough. i'm all for DUMPING money into elementary schools, middle schools and high school. tech schools and colleges, somewhat so. but after that, if the bear hasn't learned how to act, then tough sh.it. michael brown and vonderitt myers, jr. were fresh out of high school and still hadn't learned how to act. and they didn't just try to injure or kill another bear. they attacked the trainer. the trainer may or may not have provoked the bear, that remains to be seen. but they did attack, and they were dealt with. maybe they had to die, maybe they didn't. justice is finding out what really happened, why it happened, and holding the one(s) at fault accountable. justice is not camping out and asking for more food. oh. and if you just automatically inferred racism on my part... when i say "bears", i'm not referring to black people. i'm referring to entitled, lazy people, of all races. poverty is usually associated, as well. if you're not willing to work hard, then in my mind, you can piss up a gotdamn rope, end of story. DON'T FEED BEARS. PROVIDE TRAINING FOR BEARS. THEN ENJOY THE CIRCUS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I think picking a college campus where the victim's father reportedly works to start a dialogue is not that hard to figure. Debates/discussions/demonstrations at an educational institution located in the heart of the city seems to make sense. I didn't really sense a lot of the anger/frustration specifically targeted at SLU. Heck, it has even sparked a 16 page discussion on this board. We can debate about tactics all day, but personally I think talking about tough issues rather them sweeping them under the rug is healthy. Their actions at least started a dialogue. Again, if you aren't interested in or don't feel like answering the questions people have raised on here about the manner in which SLU was targeted, that's certainly your prerogative. But pretending that everyone asking them is simply ignorant of what's going on and can be enlightened by reading a mission statement from one group of protesters just isn't reflective of the questions being raised or the opinions being expressed. I agree talking about tough issues is good. I'm still not sure what the objectives of the sit-in were at the start, but thanks to Pestello, these protesters may have actually accomplished something, which is more than what you can say for some of the other protest efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 This account lends credence to the whole idea that existing students had a lot to do with getting the non-student protesters onto campus. http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/10/13/how-ferguson-october-ended-up-occupying-a-plaza-on-saint-louis-universitys-campus/ Also, has anyone on the board ever been challenged by campus security or anyone else asking why they were there? Are there signs anywhere on campus prohibiting non-University-community members from "trespassing"? Granted, I look like a certain former faculty member, but I've walked in and out of a bunch of the lecture buildings over the past several years (especially for the year that one of my kids was a student) and nobody ever blinked an eye. PS Where did Doc B disappear to? He started all this. If you set up a tent and slept by the Clocktower for 5 days they would probably question you. Just a hunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsgo Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 here's an allegorical ejaculation: ONE SHOULDN'T FEED BEARS. you don't feed bears and then complain when they keep coming back for more. bears aren't dumb. but they are hungry. and they'll work as little as they have to in order to get fed. no one should keep a bear from eating, as long as it's not hurting them. but if it's trying to injure or kill you, then you should kill it. YOU JUST DON'T FEED BEARS. if you feed them, then they'll expect to be fed, and any other outcome will lead to the bear doing what it has to do to eat. it'll kill another bear and eat it, or it'll kill the one it expects to be fed from and eat them. almost any bear can be trained if you start young enough. i'm all for DUMPING money into elementary schools, middle schools and high school. tech schools and colleges, somewhat so. but after that, if the bear hasn't learned how to act, then tough sh.it. michael brown and vonderitt myers, jr. were fresh out of high school and still hadn't learned how to act. and they didn't just try to injure or kill another bear. they attacked the trainer. the trainer may or may not have provoked the bear, that remains to be seen. but they did attack, and they were dealt with. maybe they had to die, maybe they didn't. justice is finding out what really happened, why it happened, and holding the one(s) at fault accountable. justice is not camping out and asking for more food. oh. and if you just automatically inferred racism on my part... when i say "bears", i'm not referring to black people. i'm referring to entitled, lazy people, of all races. poverty is usually associated, as well. if you're not willing to work hard, then in my mind, you can piss up a gotdamn rope, end of story. DON'T FEED BEARS. PROVIDE TRAINING FOR BEARS. THEN ENJOY THE CIRCUS. "How are we ever gonna show our faces to bears again?" "We'll just stay away from bears." https://screen.yahoo.com/hip-hop-kids-bear-cave-000000321.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I get 30 days leave per year. I might go camp out at the Clock Tower. My protest might look a lot like a tail gate and coincide with the start of Basketball Season. I think SLU needs a VP of Veterans Affairs. There's more veterans in America than black people. Also the black population is over represented in the military (33% military and only 13% general population). Also many don't have a college degree. Why isn't SLU studying PTSD? Why hasn't there been a veteran President of SLU? Why have I never seen SLU representatives at Scott Air Force Base or Ft. Leonard Wood? All things that must be changed. M-Slice and X-Games showed me the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Why isn't SLU studying PTSD? Wow. One of your demands has already been met, and you didn't even have to start an obscene rap at a passer-by at basketball game. http://bit.ly/1raYPJg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJumpUp Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I get 30 days leave per year. I might go camp out at the Clock Tower. My protest might look a lot like a tail gate and coincide with the start of Basketball Season. I think SLU needs a VP of Veterans Affairs. There's more veterans in America than black people. Also the black population is over represented in the military (33% military and only 13% general population). Also many don't have a college degree. Why isn't SLU studying PTSD? Why hasn't there been a veteran President of SLU? Why have I never seen SLU representatives at Scott Air Force Base or Ft. Leonard Wood? All things that must be changed. M-Slice and X-Games showed me the way. I like how you think son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I get 30 days leave per year. I might go camp out at the Clock Tower. My protest might look a lot like a tail gate and coincide with the start of Basketball Season. I think SLU needs a VP of Veterans Affairs. There's more veterans in America than black people. Also the black population is over represented in the military (33% military and only 13% general population). Also many don't have a college degree. Why isn't SLU studying PTSD? Why hasn't there been a veteran President of SLU? Why have I never seen SLU representatives at Scott Air Force Base or Ft. Leonard Wood? All things that must be changed. M-Slice and X-Games showed me the way. Good point. Well done. Interesting. Our courageous, honorable vets have been mistreated in so many ways, the # 1 example right now of course is the countless delays and deaths from calculated negligence due to non-response by VA employees to requests for healthcare and psychological care. Yes, the VA Hospital scandal and sordid cover up. Some did it to make their bonus $$$. What we know is probably the tip of the iceberg. Unthinkable abuse of our noble warriors, broken promises by our national leader, extended delays, pain and suffering, and numerous deaths that we know of so far. But the veterans are not rioting, threatening, looting, destroying public property, threatening, throwing bricks, converging with intent to intimidate, throwing Molotov cocktails, threatening, occupying-violating-and intimidating top notch, ethical Jesuit Universities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Wow. One of your demands has already been met, and you didn't even have to start an obscene rap at a passer-by at basketball game. http://bit.ly/1raYPJg That's from 2011 and it's not cured yet so obviously just requires some more money. Also MB there is some precedence to Vets occupying. Ever heard of "The Bonus Army". I might bring it back. Anybody got a tent they can donate to the cause? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Personally, I think Pestello was very wise to not take any action in removing the protestors from campus. It makes our University look good, and attempting to remove anyone probably would have severely escalated the problem... In any case like this the worse action is an over reaction. Let it run its course and the fire will burn out on its own and be a non story. The article in the Post about the settlement was of some interest because whatever the president agreed to was rather nebulous so he can say he met the agreement with minimal effort. He will announce some 5 year plan and all will be forgotten over time -smart on his part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 In any case like this the worse action is an over reaction. Let it run its course and the fire will burn out on its own and be a non story. The article in the Post about the settlement was of some interest because whatever the president agreed to was rather nebulous so he can say he met the agreement with minimal effort. He will announce some 5 year plan and all will be forgotten over time -smart on his part. as long as there is a firm, silent understanding that SLU will spend little to no money to further their already excellent diversity profile. how about just making college way cheaper, and if you get in on merit, then party on? if you don't then go to another school. tuition is too damn high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 "How are we ever gonna show our faces to bears again?" "We'll just stay away from bears." https://screen.yahoo.com/hip-hop-kids-bear-cave-000000321.html +50/50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Bears can smell the menstruation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 tech difficulties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 tech difficulties 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Can I tell you something about bears? *Pay Close Attention to the Language on the Screen If Occupy Has their way you'll have to learn that language the language of commies. Hint it ain't English (not sure if it's Russian either but it ain't English so it's commies) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/21099/ SLU is going to put up a monument to the Occupy SLU movement. They're calling it the Clock Tower Accords! How cute. This has to be a joke, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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