slu72 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 If UB had delivered something by now, none of us would be questioning his tenure at SLU. What does he really have to show for his time here...two NIT's, one NIT win, five maybe six decent recruits, and that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I'm not on here to bash Brad, but I also don't see why he deserves undying loyalty. I think the team needs to improve again next year or Brad will be in some trouble. That said, barring some injury or departure, they should be better. So far I'm middle of the road with Brad. If he'd had a few big seasons in a row and was then in a downturn, I could see why people would be so fiercly loyal...I also wouldn't throw him out the door after doubling the win total from the previous year. At this point, all you can really expect is that fans would be split on Brad. That should be okay. Don't beat people up for being on the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoat Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 >If UB had delivered something by now, none of us would be >questioning his tenure at SLU. What does he really have to >show for his time here...two NIT's, one NIT win, five maybe >six decent recruits, and that's about it. Fair enough '72. Still I am willing to give Brad this one final year before I personally start questioning and looking for a change. In my mind, and perhaps in mine alone, he has had quite a decent amount of adversity while here at SLU. Granted he has let some opportunities slip away as well, so he is not without blame, but screw it up again this year, and he may have to visit monster.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 As I have said before, no conclusions should really be reached on Brad until we see what happens this summer and in the upcoming Fall recruiting. If he wiffs on both of these periods then he is walking on thin ice. If the the team does not make post season then he is walking on cracked ice. I hope Brad succeeds because the program would be hurt with a coaching change right now. But, ultimately, he has to produce and up to now he has not shown a consistent track record. Should he be dropped right now - no but as I said before, he has to produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Can't name them all, but for the most part those of us who are suspect of UB being the messiah for SLU hoops have not called for his head on a platter today. Yes, there is the minority nut case fringe who thinks he should disappear tomorrow, but the moderate ABC'ers, and I'm one, are just saying show us something dammit ...it's going on five years for cripes sake. Does anyone here really think Nark and Drew are anti Billiken fans? They're fed up with the mediocrity that spews forth every year...no hope for dancing, not much excitement on the recruiting front, a brand of basketball that makes soccer more appealing. These guys don't need bashing, they need some w's...something to get excited about. Yeah, landing TL and KL was exciting, and they surpassed expectations, but then what? Does the momentum continue into the next class? No. What's the fall recruiting period looking like? Only the shadow. What if IV returns and we still don't make it? Big red flag ahould be raised. What if indications are that the bumper crop of 2008 signees are leaving Dodge and we're left with the crumbs? If by next spring these are all answered in the negative, it's time for a change...ABC'ers are tired of this era of stable mediocrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 One more time 72 ... what do you think about Brad, I'm not quite clear. Just as you say the ABC'ers don't want UB gone tommorrow, just because we support him doesn't mean we accept mediocrity. It does seem that both sides acuse the other of being extreme, when in fact except for a few cases ... most are probably not that far off. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman and loyal subject of Billsboy and all ex D1 players and coaches everywhere. You da man Billsboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 My position is simple: Brad gets one more year to provide that he can (i) win with talent, (ii) land a good recruiting class that contains something more than role players, (iii) liven up the playing style as promised the last two seasons. If he fails to meet these requirements, then next year should be his last. Five consecutive years of medocrity is not acceptable no matter how "good a guy" the coach may be. All of that being said, I truly hope that the ABCs--myself included--are eating crow a year from now because that means Brad and the program have finally met or exceeded expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I have gotten the feeling some on this board think that I and others want Brad to fail so we can say "I told you so." That couldn't be farther from the truth. My love for this program and deep desire to see it succeed is much more important than proving myself to be correct to my fellow members of this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 "i) win with talent, (ii) land a good recruiting class that contains something more than role players, (iii) liven up the playing style as promised the last two seasons. If he fails to meet these requirements, then next year should be his last" So if we average 65 ppg, make the Big Dance and sign 3 kids who can't beat the upperclassmen out for minutes, Brad should be gone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBoy Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Nark - Thanks for laying out your criteria. What objective measures will you use for each of the three? Also, are you saying UB should be gone if he fails (based on your objective measures) to reach any one of your three criteria? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I can't speak for Nark, but I am looking at it on a "sliding scale" if you will. For example, if we go 20-12, and fail to make the dance, but Brad lands a lights-out recruiting class (meaning at least 1 top 100 guy and a couple of the best players from the area) I would consider that progress and keep him around. On the flipside of that if we go 23-9 and make the tourney, Brad still needs to have a nice class (top 4 or 5 in the A-10 should be what we expect on a yearly basis) but maybe you give him a little more latitude since he just took a team to the dance. I think at the end of the day what we in the "ABC" are looking for is progress. We want to see the program on an upswing not stuck in mediocrity like we have been since the beginning of Brad's tenure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 You took the words right out of my mouth. It is definitely a sliding scale. The only I would add is that it is a weighted sliding scale, with winning getting the most weight and style of play getting the least weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 See my post below regarding the weighted sliding scale. I openly admit that winning will cure all ills; however, building on success with solid recruits is almost equally important. Spoonhour proved that if you don't leverage on-the-court success into recruiting success, the ride will be short-lived. The style of play issue is a mitigating factor. I don't have an issue with calculated basetkball as opposed to up tempo basketball; however, Brad's inability to successfully implement the up tempo style after two years of trying indicates that he (a) hasn't recruited the right style of players, and/or ( hasn't successfully coached his players how to run the system, and/or © doesn't understand how to run an up-tempo system, and/or (d) is just too damn stubborn and controlling to let his players run the system he has implemented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 As a fellow ABC'er, agree a sliding scale. I think the most weight goes to the team's performance in '06-07. An invite, he's got a lock on the job for another year. No invite, things get dicey. You have to look at quality of '07 recruits. If that class is less than exciting, he goes, unless of course, he has solid commits from one or more of the stars of the '08 class. Unlikely to happen if there's no dance next year, because those kids will be figuring he's headed back to Loras College. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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