Triangle returns - Controversy returns

[Triangle andToo]

Point - Triangle is returning on a probationary status only at the request of Steve, Too's family, friends and a whole hoard of Billikens.com readers that feel that there has been something sorely lacking on this board since Too's self imposed exile. Triangle has been convinced that Too's voice needs Too be heard over and above the voices that stoop Too the lowest levels and ignorance of all internet protocol. There are people that think that just because THEY think it is right, everyone else should think the exact same way, no respect for the other person and their privacy ( not Too mention family situations) - well so it goes and as Triangle mentioned aboved, this is just a probationary period.

The Return of College Notes.

1. Billiken program Clean??????? Anyone who thinks that Coach Dollar just suddenly became oblivious Too NCAA rules when he entered the geographic boundaries of the state of Washington better put down that pipe (corn cob for those senior Billiken season ticket holders). Those type of minor infractions were going on here - no doubt - it was just that nobody cared - If Coach Romar would have signed one of those high profile players he was after, well - well - well. Believe you me, someone would have bitched.

2. Baylor Debacle - Will this be the spring board for the NCAA (college presidents) Too finally recognize that far, far Too much money is being funneled back inToo the schools. More of the big bucks needs Too be brought back inToo the NCAA for administration and investigation - self reporting is not working - period! College presidents are there for education not sports - they have already established a means (the NCAA) - give them the money Too make it work for chrissakes. Financial and police record backround checks should be made of all scholarship student/athletes. Drug testing and anything relating Too the Student/athletes scholastic eligibility should be completely void of any athletic department participation both before the scholarship is awarded and during all participation in relationship Too the University. Here is a guy who had a Tahoe and a 4 bedroom apartment, dogs and guns and no scholarship and he ended up dead - the supreme Death Penalty. Ignorance, Ignorance , Ignorance.

3. Coach Q Makes Us Remeber Ourselves - Hey, Remeber our first big job? (anything was pretty big at that time). We were already pretty brash and didn't take Too all of the adminstrative aspects, the crossing of the T's and the dotting of the I's. Coach Q is a good person - he is young and needs Too learn. He will never again repeat the Ricky C. rehabilitation fiasco. He thought it was a classic case of Stephen Covey's "win, win" situation. Here is a chance where everyone will benefit and in reality who knows? Coach Q certainly has benefited from the experience and hopefully Ricky has - we learn from our mistakes.

4. Billiken Wish List - For those of you who are hoping that a certain top east side player will be wearing a Billiken uniform - forget it - he will be wearing some JC uni - it has Too do with that ole GPA.

5. USA! USA! USA! NOT - Well no medal for the USA team and it comes Too no suprise. This is the future and it is bad. The world basketball game (and it is still a team sport) is passing us by. More foreign players in college and more foreign players in the NBA. Jesus Christ, 5 starting team players plus three serviceable bench players and you have Too go Too Israel and Greece Too find players???? - it is a joke. Why can't college coaches find their players here in America - video??? cell phones???? Lazy???????

6. What???????? A point guard??????? When is the last time that Billiken fans have seen a true point running the team? well they will see one this year in Brandon Morris. Brandon is a coach's player and an abosolute madman in controlling the team on court. It will be interesting Too read the comparisons this season between him and Randy P. at Mizzou. Let's see???? Randy could be running this Billiken squad.

7. Up a creek w/o a paddle - Let's face it, any conference realignment will leave our Billikens grabbing for straws - what leverage do we have? Attendance has dropped dramatically and will continue Too do so and the TV market means nothing. CUSA has To stay for our Billikens.

8. Dec 6th - A change in college basketball????? The University of Arizona Wildcats invade our Saviss in what may be an insight in the future of the game. Coach Olson has been tinkering with a 4 guard offense (thats right - 4 guards) - spreading the game out in an offensive (not defensive) four corners. Absolutely no one in the lane. Channing Frye would be roaming the baseline with Shakur, Iggy, Adams and Dunn all out on the perimeter, all extremely quick ready Too swoop Too the hoop or stop and pop. Leave it Too Coach Olson, he was the first Too recognize the importance of the 3pt shot when he recruited Steve Kerr. Maybe something very different on Dec 6th.

7. Seminoles' Chop - Leonard Hamilton is building a top program, Final Four in 2006.

8. Show Me The Money - Where is the cash for the new Billikens arena? Well it is no where. The big donors have already bucked up and still there isn't even a 50% dent in the money needed. Here is the reason why. The oldtimers (huge season tickets) just absolutely love the Saviss. That big old garage they can park and walk right inToo without being hit on the nogin by one single raindrop or snow flake on their bald heads is a big advantage Too them. Then you have the Metro Link crowd - Hey right across the street - what is more simple? Of course then you have absolutely NO ticket plan in place Too assure long time season ticket holders of their located seats in any new arena. Is this thing being handled in the right way????

9. Who is this Guy????? The biggest positive surprise with the coaches of the USA Junior World Championship Team was a very remote player named Ryan Hollins. He evidently literally shocked everyone with his athleticism and defensive capibilities. Oh Yes - he plays for UICLA.

10. Again, Closing Comment, Respect

so it goes..........

[Quality Is Job 1]

Welcome back from your self-imposed exile, Too. While I wouldn't be upset if you made it through your probationary period and decided to remain indefinitely (you're still welcome -- I think), let me caution you that many of your viewpoints and manner of expressing them are still quite abrasive to some true-blue Billikens fans. Let's put it this way: it this forum had "mob rule" like TigerBoard (I haven't seen you there, but I assume you're familiar with the rule), you'd get mobbed off the board every day.

I don't usually do this, but (since you're back and seem to be somewhat kinder and gentler -- but not much) I'll respond to some your points this time.

"Triangle is returning on a probationary status only at the request of Steve, Too's family, friends and a whole hoard of Billikens.com readers that feel that there has been something sorely lacking on this board since Too's self imposed exile."

I hope you didn't have any glue on your tongue when you wrote that one, because if you did, your tongue is now permanently stuck to your cheek. Maybe I can do a google search to find you a good SLUCare oral surgeon. While you're welcome to post, the board can go on just fine without you. Also, it's mighty convenient that you choose to return while your nemesis, billiken_roy, is away on vacation.

"6. What???????? A point guard??????? When is the last time that Billiken fans have seen a true point running the team? well they will see one this year in Brandon Morris. Brandon is a coach's player and an abosolute madman in controlling the team on court. It will be interesting Too read the comparisons this season between him and Randy P. at Mizzou. Let's see???? Randy could be running this Billiken squad."

I'm glad you think highly of Brandon Morris. There aren't too many other times I can recall seeing you say something favorable about a Billiken player or recruit. While I hope Randy Pulley is successful running the Tigers this year, I think Brad Soderberg prefers having Morris, since Morris is a much better shooter, reportedly, than Pulley. Personally, I expect Morris to start, and I expect the Billiken offense to flow much for freely this year than last year. Even so, I've not yet seen Morris play and am just trusting Coach Soderberg.

(I apologize about editing your post, but the phrase you used in no. 7 was of very questionable taste. I hope that the replacement I chose for it still conveys your thought -- if not, feel free to change it or suggest to me what it should say [while there is a time limit for editing posts, I believe moderators can edit them longer].)

[CentFLBilliken]

I hope you continue to break the big stories like the imminent hiring of coach Gregory.

[p diddy]

word on the street is that the certain player from the east side will go to prep school if he doesn't have the necessary grades.

bad boyz for life

[Schasz]

Was there any doubt that T & T was coming back? Heck, he's only had a little extended vacation. Welcome back T & T, I am sure that your posts will be fair game now as they were before.

[TheA_Bomb]

I am curious.

Irrational:

Dollar is dirty and has been that way. However, Q is just overexcited about his first big job?!?!

Romar is terrible and could never recruit. However, Hollins is a great player.

[Quality Is Job 1]

[billiken_roy]

i thought the most humorous comment in his return announcement was his indirect demand for respect. joey is about the most disrespectful poster i have ever encountered on any messageboard/chat room. if one wants respect, one needs to be respectful to others at some point as well. if he doesnt want to be respectful to the individual posters, at least show some respect and positive comments about the billikens. but nothing he writes is about giving the billikens a chance. it is always a negative spin on the billikens.

romar and his staff never cheated at slu. as stated above, if he did, what does slu have to show for it? and if the inference is that dollar learned that somewhere, again, then if proficient at it, then why was he caught? i have said time and time again, dollar should have been fired for his offense at washington. but anyone that knows coach romar knows lorenzo is far too loyal and good to his friends and associates to ever turn on them as such. i would guess that romar would have gone down with dollar on a first offense rather than agree to fire him.

a big key to the difference in coach romar and staff in st louis and coach romar and staff in washington is without a doubt the higher ups. all we have read about washington ( and in more than just basketball) is that the university of washington is a "just win" school. my gosh, it is a mess there. basketball isnt even the worst. the football program is in shambles after that nieheisel guy. if anyone needs to be reviewed it is the hedges woman. now at slu, all we ever hear is they (father biondi and doug woolard) want success, but not at ANY level of compromise. be it academically or integrity in general. with that direction, the staff at slu (not just romar) knew they had to play by the rules no matter what the disadvantage it put them at recruitingwise. personally i hope that never changes. i would rather be 16-14 and going to the nit every year as compared to headed both towards the final four and ncaa probation.

last point on this dollar thing. if the assumption is that romar is dirty because his protege dollar got caught. then do we also say that knight is a cheat since his protege, dave bliss is being uncovered as a cheat at baylor? i have never liked knight. i think his approach to interaction with the media, his co-workers and his players is horrible. but i have never ever thought of knight as a cheat. in fact, i believe he is the model that recruiting should be. he gets the players to buy into being a part of the system. there is nothing individual incented about anything he does. yet, bliss had to learn his trade somewhere so why not blame the mentor there as well. same with snyder and coach k. geez, maybe, just maybe, these guys got greedy all on their own. they saw a shortcut to the top and did it. but dont go blaming romar or knight or coach k.

now my question is how can the ncaa come down on washington as they did for conversations with a prospective recruit, and allow missouri to skate after all that has been uncovered already with the numerous incidents over the last four years? imo, even if you want to make odom a total scapegoat and absolve pretty q, tell me what would make the whole situation a more serious case of "loss of institutional control" than all that has been shown already? for anyone to think that this is going to all go away for the tigers is wishful thinking imo. it may not happen immediately, but imo if the ncaa doesnt take steps it is sending a very dangerous message to the masses of schools that already walk in that mirky area of college athletics.

[tseugnekillib]

Toofus,

Point - Your return to this board was expected, as your Saturday night posts are a big part of your social life. You seek respect, but you give none. You are obviously a basketball fan, but in all of your postings you finds ways to prove that you are also a jerk-off!

1. If Cameron Dollar would have broken the rules when at SLU, he would have been fired immediately. No second chances.

2. College coaches who cut too many corners eventually flip out of control. See Georgia, Baylor and Missouri. The sad part is that these coaches had the fan/administration support to take their time and do things right.

3. Top east side player having academic problems is old news. Hopefully, his summer school courses will get him eligible for his senior season.

4. College players from Israel and Greek are legitimate students as well. Izik was an honor role student last year and Ian reportedly scored a 30 on his initial ACT test. As you have said before, foreign players are team oriented, play defense and can score. Until the Nick Kern's of the world get their heads straightened out, we will see more and more foreign players. Personally, I welcomed the legitimate foreign student athletes with open arms.

5. In the two games I watched Brandon Morris play, he took his defense as serious as he took he offensive responsibilities. I expect him to be a key player as well.

6. Billiken attendance has dropped in recent years due to the lack of victories. That said, SLU's attendance last season was still greater than the five bball only schools in the Big East.

7. Glad to see you acknowledge Coach Romar's eye for talent with your highlighting of Randy Pulley and Ryan Hollins.

8. Again, you call for respect.....well, earn it!

[Schasz]

The one that I fell over LMAO was the Q take. We should all remember our 1st job, and it is understandable that one might take shortcuts...not! For cripes sake, Snyder has a freakin law degree from Duke, so don't try and infer that he doesn't know exactly what he is doing. If Ricky C. was paid as the ex girl friend seemed to allege last week then Snyder and Ol Mizzou are in deep do do with the NCAA. We'll see how this plays out, somehow I don't think we've heard the last of the Ricky C. fiasco!

[PinkFloyd]

controversial yet with substance.

[jjray]

But if the guy does not want his real name used on the board then I think that wish should be respected. However, attacking the comments (as opposed to the person) should be fair game ... otherwise what is the point of this exercise we are engaged in?

[Billiken Rich]

Blah Blah Blah Blah. Respect the Fleugal horn???? You must be joking. Osama Bin Flueg's name is fair game. I believe he used it as a handle on postnet or tigerboard or somewhere. This isn't Tigerboard. No Bills fans are stalking the Flueger! Nobody is using profanity against the Fluegerino. Guess what. If his majesty the King of Fluegerocity wishes to remain anonymous fustigating the Billiken faithful wearing a tiger suit just isn't the place to do it. Sorry for the strident tone but Sir Fluegsalot is a like a painful rectal itch that keeps popping up when you're in public and can't scratch.

[Quality Is Job 1]

...as a moderator, I have to agree with jjray. If Triangle andToo doesn't want his name used on the message board, you should respect that. I know he's made many more enemies than friends here, but the majority can't dictate to the minority in EVERY thing. If you must respond to Too, please address his issues and not attack his person or refer to him by his real name. I don't know how Steve feels on the issue, but I think he trusts my judgment in making me a moderator, so let me say that, IF Too so requests, I'll edit any post that mentions his real name. I have not done so, so far, because I've not heard from him (or Steve) and don't know for a fact that his problem with the board is the use of his real name.

[billiken_roy]

oh mean like joey calling me king billiken roy all the time. that is ok? b.s. if he wants respect he has to give it first to earn it. not only to the individual posters but especially to the billikens which he never does.

[ACE]

Joey Fluegel doesn't deserve respect. He doesn't show any and has been dishonest from his first post on here. I caught him in several lies with my detective work. TOO bad if Joey gets his feelings hurt. He gets what he deserves.

[Billiken Rich]

Yeah I don't like my name being used either. From now on I'd like to be known as the poster formerly known as Billiken ****. Or perhaps just poster X.

[Quality Is Job 1]

The reason Too probably hasn't requested that Steve block the usage of his real name is that he knows he's referred to you as King Billiken Roy MANY times and can't in good conscience request that no one refer to him by his real name, even though he hates it.

I'm not saying that anyone has to like the guy (or read and/or respond to his posts), but if he asks -- and he has not done so, yet -- that we refrain from publishing his name on the board, then I expect posters to abide by that.

I don't think Too's appending "king" to your handle is as weighted an infraction as your referring to him by his real name.

Lastly, I doubt Triangle andToo is going to last. The bottom line is that he's not having fun with it, anymore (in my opinion).

[Quality Is Job 1]

You can disrespect the guy all you want, so long as you don't threaten him physically or personally endanger him (like publishing his address, or something). And if he does formally request that his real name not be used on the board, then posters can't use his real name on the board. I'm sure people are doing it to try to prevent him from coming back, but he has as much right to be here as any other poster, even if his style and views are widely unpopular.

As for the fact that he doesn't deserve respect until he shows respect, I agree and have no objection if you call him toofus, or fraud, or liar, or whatever, as long as you don't use his real name against his request (a request that has yet to be made).

[Quality Is Job 1]

Rich, your name (your first name, anyway) is part of your handle. Triangle andToo doesn't have his name in his handle. How would you feel if people started using your full name on the board without your consent? The reason we have handles is that's what we want our cyber-identity to be. Yes, you might have your name published in your profile (but you don't have to), but fewer people are going to have the level of interest need to look up your profile than are going to read the board.

Yeah, I know that, on another site Too goes by "flueg," but that's not his full last name. It's like if you had chosen to post under "bert" and then someone started using your full last name (that sound you hear is 100 visitors clicking to view your profile to find out your full last name!).

[NashvilleBilliken]

I think Too has become an actual Billiken fan. That little run we had converted him...if I remember correctly he was even seen defending us on the tigerboard. Now he has realized what he has become and he hates it. He is grasping at straws trying to find another way to start arguments (using his real name..who gives a $hit?). He had to take a hiatus from the board in order to try and cure himself of the billiken addiction and this was his pathetic excuse. His Tigers are going down the crapper and the Billikens are looking better and better. He doesn't know how to deal with it. The first step to curing yourself is admitting you have a problem, Too.

[billiken_roy]

i beg to differ. his reference is that i am the self proclaimed king of this board. he has in fact made that quite clear. while i vehemently defend the billikens and enjoy debate, i do not consider myself any kind of a king. in fact i have no power over what is said or done. the truth is that steve is the king (a very good one at that) and thicks, you are prince. it seems that too's whole thought for that tag is to try to discredit me with the less regular readers and posters. if he wants to call me "roy mueller" on the board, i cant see how that is more defacing than "king billiken roy" in any context of a post. especially considering the way he has done it in the past.

plus, i am not the only poster he has defaced in the past. there have been others.

last, the bigger concern is the typical tone of his posts. it is always about devaluing the billiken program. personally i think too's worth to the board is all about creating controversy. i cant believe even he believes half of what he writes. but it sure gets responses and ultimately it discredits the billikens. i personally wouldnt care if this was the most boring board in the world if it was only civil discussion and debate about the billikens. but too trys to stop that. and that is where the lack of respect comes from. if he wants respect, as tseugnekillib said, about time he starts trying to earn it.

i would never be in favor of banning too. he has every right to post his thoughts. he needs to understand that with free speech come consequences and reactions that others too have the right to make.

[jjray]

Hate to potificate but treating others well regardless of their own behavior is a matter of following in the Christian tradition. In my mind that means sticking to mixing it up on statements of opinion or fact and staying away from the personal stuff.

[Schasz]

I mean it does not take a freakin brain surgeon to figure out someone's name. I don't see what the big deal is...WAH!!!!

[Lobo]

Agree...

Much to do about nothing.