? for 3star, Broy, and Pdiddy

[slu72]

This kind of goes along with 3 star's why we'll never be Gonzaga post. We who've never seen TL or KL play have been lead to believe that had they participated in AAU games over the past 2-3 seasons they would have been rated much higher by the gurus at least in the top 75. Also, there is probably some anti SLU bias by the gurus, ie if they're going to SLU they can't be that good. Question: had they played more AAU ball, do you three think they would have been rated in the top 100 of their respective classes? If the answer is yes than we've definitely got ourselves a great under the radar incoming class.

[3star_recruit]

"Question: had they played more AAU ball, do you three think they would have been rated in the top 100 of their respective classes?

Yes for Tommie because he was a memmber a high profile AAU team, the Eagles, and no for Lisch because he likely would have played for the lower-profile Midwest Storm as he did a handful of times last summer. Do they both deserve to be in the top 100? Sure.

I'm interested in seeing how Lisch matches up with North Carolina's Bobby Frasor. Their games are almost mirror images of each other.

[slu72]

Didn't Frasor go to a Chicago area high school?

[3star_recruit]

Yeah, he went to Brother Rice. But from what I've seen on video, he plays a lot like Lisch.

[Mobile-iken]

Lisch was a top 100 player on some lists, wasn't he?

[Jalensdad2002]

>Lisch was a top 100 player on some lists, wasn't he?

I have seen Lisch rated as high as #80 in the Scout.com Student Sports Magazine. Tommie has been rated #28 by the relatively new Breakdown Magazine and #66 by Eric Bossi, a scout.com contributor.

The writers that have seen Lisch and Liddell generally rate them Top 100.

[Sheltiedave]

Shaun Livingston thought Kevin was one of the most difficult defensive guards he played against while in high school. Kevin took Shaun's normal game completely away - passing and team involvement - so Shaun had to smoke Kevin one on one.

They both ended the game smoking each other personally, and Central made it past Altoff, but Kevin and Shaun battled each other all game. Shaun went at #7(I recall) in the NBA draft, and led all rookies in apg prior to his season ending injuries.

Kevin is a dominant physical high school defender, and he will only be getting better as he physically matures.

Tommie has even more physical tools than Kevin, and he knows how to play the passing lanes(like Larry Hughes,) so I expect to see a lot more steals from the guards this year. If he continues his documented improvement, Tommie will be drafted at some point in the future.

More than a few pundits in Illinois have commented to me that SLU has a poor man's triumvirat of Illinois' guards from last year. I see good things coming from our backcourt over the next three years as they mature and develop.

[Taj79]

72 ... I would offer that no mater who says what its all opinion. Years ago we found out that Patrick Jursic or whatever his name was, was a 15-year-old nothing making a name for himself. Mel Kiper started this way and lives for the fame two days in April bring him at NFL draft time.

I understand we'd all like some affirmation that we are getting "qulaity" before it gets here but who really knows. Many times in the past I have cited Tyrone Caswell as the example. Why? In the magazines that came out in that preseason, almost all (well at least one) had the top recruit in CUSA as SLU's Tyrone Caswell. He and Rickey Cranford are still tops on my list of SLU failures.

I've come not to worry about the gurus and the rankings, like they say ... no game is ever won on paper, you still have to play the game.

What happens if the reverse is true? Heaven forbid ... both Tommie and Kevin fall flat on their faces ... then what? And it could be anything ... a second coming of Ryan Grant. the way I now go is this ... if enough people are raving, then I'm feeling better. If its just broy ... well, its okay but suspect without secondary backup. And I respect broy alot .... maybe its the more the merrier.

[slu72]

Agree with you TAJ Mahal '79, it's just that our recruits seem to get such little respect or recognition from the so called "experts", I don't want to be duped into expecting too much based on the opinions of those who see the world through billiken blue colored glasses. And I wanted to get some discussion going....bored I guess. With the exception of those kids ranked +25 and deemed NBA ready, I think the rest of the lists are highly subjective and not necessarily a solid predictor of success at the D1 level.

[Sheltiedave]

Taj, I would gladly take the second coming of Ryan Grant, if he stayed healthy. Come to think of it, we have Obi, who is a lesser version of Ryan.

Same catastrophic knee injury,only Ryan ended up with a heart or congenital back problem that precluded him from playing, IIRC. Ryan did lead us in scoring in his very first game freshman year against Bradley.

I can understand people being morose and sanguine about the progress with the bball court, but Brad and staff have done a very credible job cherry picking the best local talent on both sides of the river these past two years. Programs take three to five years to build. Brad is effectively two years into his program following the emergency hire.

[Taj79]

72 said "our recruits get so little respect..." or something like that. Its not fair to answer with a question but I have to "Does our record warrant any better? Outside of Hughes, we have had nothing but wishful scraps to graze on lo' these past 30 years. Maybe all the gurus are native Missourians and live on the phrase "show me." And you have to admit that over time we have done all the things that we need to do to deserve such little respect.

Dave said he'd take a Ryan Grant .. but only if he stayed healthy. That is exactly my point ... he didn't and we got one game. I for one am not willing to settle for one game from any of these guys. Brad is in year four of his rebuilding program if you agree. He will has three recruting classes under HIS belt for HIS program. I say he;s in year four because Maguire is committed and he's co-processing on an active season (3) with an active recruiting class (4). In addition, I am not willing to settle for one year let alone one game. That's why I don't thing Hughes' overall contribution to the program was a positive. Because Grant went down so quickly I'd call his contribution a negative as well ... negative for overall production and negative for the subtlty that was the expectation coming in and the expectations of th Bradley game.

The shoulds, couldas, and wouldas couple with a the fish so big that got away, ain't happening any more. I'd like results. Again, I don't see tangible things coming this year ... we are too young ... but next year things better start happening or the heat being applied to Brad's seat in that A10 article will most certainly be on the increase.

[jjray]

>>I can understand people being morose and sanguine about the progress with the bball court, but Brad and staff have done a very credible job cherry picking the best local talent on both sides of the river these past two years. Programs take three to five years to build. Brad is effectively two years into his program following the emergency hire.<<

I'll agree with that assessment; however, marked progress year to year with Ws is the bottom for an improving program. I like the increase in the talent we can put on the floor but we're young. If we go through another 9 win season can Brad keep the recruiting pipeline flowing or will it start to dry up? Hope it doesn't come to that but our program is at a vulnerable stage right now. If our young team could go 500 in the A10 next year (with some quality wins over name teams), it would be huge in my mind. Then we can rightfully argue that we are a young, improving program.

[Taj79]

I also agree with jjray and his agreement on the local scene. However, I seem to recall a very good friend, the ever-present broy, make an assesssment only a few short years ago wherein he pronounced that we had something like the best set of talent EVER assembled on the Billikens that year. I don't recall the year and I am not here to debate the point however we are now talking about another upgrade in talent on the Billybench. The yo-yo keeps pluckign with the heart strings here.

An upgrade in talent with a supposed weakening of conference. Hmmmmm. I'm just unsold on our prospects for this year at this point. I hope they prove me wrong and everybody gets to call me names come March.

[billiken_roy]

i made that statement last summer when we thought liddell was coming. losing him from that class was somewhat akin to the thought of losing hughes in his class.

i still believe that last year's freshmen plus newborne will prove out to be one of the brightest ever, however, i now concur that was an overstatement without liddell. still last year plus the prospect of this year's threesome of liddell, lisch and obi, is a back to back crop that we may have never seen before.

[Taj79]

..not last year. I seem to recall whenever you said it, that CSloan was on the team. I can't recall exactly, but it was not last year. You had spent some of the preseason at West Pine watching and that's all I recall.

[Billiken Rich]

Yeah,I think deiner was on that "most talented" team too. It didn't pan out.

[Taj79]

... that rings a bell. CSloan and Deiner had a concurrent run, yes? I think Mr. Rich is right. It was a couple of years ago ... but definitely not last year.