OK Soccer Buffs...

[Schasz]

I am a couple to three weeks late with this post, but I perused the 2005 boys Parade HS All American team with some interest. I saw 3 kids from my new home town of Tampa and zip from my original home in St. Louis. What has happened to what was the soccer capital of the USA? I remember days when there were several St. Louis area kids making this All American team. Perhaps that is one reason why we have not won a NCAA title in umpteen years???

While I am sure that St. Louis area HS soccer has quality players...it is apparent that the rest of the country may have passed St. Louis by!!! There are 3 kids from Aurora, IL...they must have a heckuva program in Illinois as they had 5 kids on the team.

I guess I am not too surprised about Tampa. Just minutes away from my house in Clearwater are several soccer fields and on almost EVERY Saturday they are packed with kids of all ages playing soccer. I mean there are cars parked all over the very busy road adjacent to these soccer fields...obviously, the parents of the kids have a big interest in their kids game. Of course having consistently great weather helps out here in the Tampa-Pinellas County area, but these kids must have good coaching too. Also kind of interesting to see that SLU's name is not mentioned with any of these Parade All-American kids.

http://all-americans.parade.com/boys_soccer.html

[Iggy]

No MLS team in the soccer capital of the USA doesn't help either.

[Billiken Rich]

St. Louis is not the soccer capital of anything any longer. And Thank God.

[Trich]

Regarding H.S. All Americans, the absence of St. Louis players is due to several reasons. One is the growth of high school soccer in other areas of the country the improvement of the quality of play in those areas. Another reason these selections are often political.

It should also be pointed out that the last couple of years the top ranked high school teams in the U..S. have been from the St. Louis Metro Catholic league, namely, Chaminade and C.B.C. Also St. Louis continues to have several players on the National Under 18 team that practices in Bradenton, Fl. Another point to remember is that St. Louis is still a hot recruiting spot for many major universities for men and women teams. Anoter point is that in the national tournaments the St. Louis teams continue to do very good.

St. Louis may not dominate like they use to but there is still very good quality soccer here.

[SLUBALLS]

Current St. Louisians within the National team pool:

Klein, Chris

Ralston, Steve

Twellman, Taylor

Noonan, Pat

Also throw in Brian McBride with his SLU connection.

[billiken_roy]

pat noonan? any relation to danny noonan of bushwood country club fame?

[Trich]

Distant cousins?

[courtside]

Schasz,

Well...there is fierce competition among STL area youth club soccer teams for players. They all beat up on each other. So it is difficult to have ONE team in an age group have national success...which helps in the above mentioned political choices for Parade, and their high school team as well. With that said you will be happy to know that Scott Gallagher club soccer team is the NATIONAL CHAMPION for 17 year olds. And Busch soccer club(name since changed to St. Louis soccer club) is the reigning 18's NATIONAL CHAMPION. Tough to get better than the best in the country. ;-)

Soccer is good everywhere Schasz. Other places have caught up. STL area still has tremendous soccer and great depth of talent too. SIX different high school teams from MO, were ranked in the top 50 nationally.

It is like other sports. The best of the best elite player, special player....Larry Hughes, Dwyane Wade...so you can relate better....can come from anywhere.....while there are plenty of David Lee's in STL.....if you get the comparison.

[slufanskip]

Check the rosters of the teams that played in the NCAA tourney. There are alot of St.Louis players. The Loo is still one of the hotbeds of soccer in the US. Just not the only one.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[OldGeyser]

Let's not forget some of the Public School players. IE Daddo, Gabel etc.

SCHAZ: In St Louis, Club Ball is the dominate force. There are three highly competitive Clubs in St Louis - Busch - now st louis soccer club - Gallagher and Lou Fusz (in alpha order). Every year each club will send players to division I. Whereas in Tampa as in most communities there generally is only one strong club ( ie Magic in Chicago)

Daddo was possibly the best player in St Louis HS (a member of the U18 national champs) -- I'm not sure why he did not make Parade HS All-American - except that he graduated at the end of the fall semester - and enrolled at SLU (per a busch player).

[Schasz]

Good points Courtside as usual I like reading your soccer posts. I think I was trying to make the point that the rest of the country has caught up to St. Louis as you so aptly pointed out.

I have not been away from St. Louis long enough to remember the strong club soccer played in St. Louis...it was strong back in my St. Louis days too. I also am aware there can be politics with every HS All-American team not just Parade, but it does not seem that long ago that even with the politics that St. Louis easily had anywhere from 3 to 5 players on that team. Again a sign that the rest of the USA has been catching up.

OK now let me ask a trivia question that I am too lazy to look up myself. When was the last time SLU won the NCAA championship? I graduated in 1971 and it seems to me that we may have won two championships during my 4 years at SLU. I am going to take a wild guess and say we may have only won only one championship since I was in school...again I am too darn lazy and tired to look it up. Maybe one of you can show your SLU championship knowledge without looking up our last NCAA championship year. Seems to me it was sometime in the 90's that we last made it to the Final Four.

While we no longer dominate like we did back in my days...I did have to chuckle at my yougest daughters new male friend who plays for a small college team in VT. I mentioned SLU and he asked if they played soccer...I told him that they still play a little soccer at SLU, but it was big time and not VS small colleges he plays.

[Schasz]

I went into the NCAA archives and as I suspected it was close to when I graduated as 1973 under Harry Keough was the last time our SLU Billikens hoisted the winning NCAA Trophy. Wow 32 years is a long drought between drinking from that championship trophy. Right now Indiana is the dominant team in Mens soccer as they have won 4 of the last 7 championships. Jerry Yeagley has to be a helluva coach as he has won 7 total championships at Indiana...eat your heart out Bobby Knight.

OK humor me what does Indiana have that SLU does not have. While I did not get down to SLU's campus in my recent trip...I have read that we have a top notch facility. I'm assuming our coaching is more that adequate. Obviously, they have to be recruiting and regularly signing the cream of the crop as far as top talent. I have read the other thread where we have lost top players to the pros, but don't other top NCAA schools run into that same problem??? Apparently, if it did happen at Indiana they are so loaded with talent that it is just a small hiccup for them while it is a big deal for SLU???

[courtside]

Pat Noonan...he would be the starting midfielder for the United States of America National team World Cup Qualifier last night in Panama. I know you stayed up to watch Schasz;-)

Chris Klein...also in the national team pool and if it wasn't for a knee injury tear, would have been out there too.

Mike Amberlsey, Harry Weiss, and so on....What do these players have in common? They all played at IU, and all are from St. Louis. (in fact all attended the same high school)

IU has a beautiful campus, is a big school, a good academic school...a "destination" school for plenty of kids. SLU has a beautiful campus too these days, much smaller school, urban, etc...

IU has always been good at soccer since Jerry Yeagley built the program. Yeagley retired two years ago...IU was good in the 90's and 80's too. They have turned the corner the past 10 years to win those big post season games. They play a great brand of team ball. Their talent level is very very high, but so are small griup of other top teams. IU has been well coached, disciplined, and tough. Their kids come from all over the country. They look at St. Louis and take only one of the very few elite kids, who also fit in to their academics, and culture etc...and they don't do it every year. They have built their recent program, sort of like a Duke hoops, they can pick and choose who they want. And in the past 10 plus years they have gotten great player after great player. Chicago has caught up in the soocer world for example, and they have had success there too...including 3 Parade All-Americans for next year. They also recruited stud St. Louis DeSmet keeper Joe Andrews for next year as well.

Oh...did I mention defending national champion IU's head coach is Mike Freitag, a former IU player who served as an assistant for 11-12 years under Yeagley before taking over the reigns and leading them unexpectedly back to national title this past season. Mike freitag is from .....drum roll please....you guessed it Schasz....St. Louis Missouri.

[courtside]

To follow up one more thing Shasz...IU really hits on most of their recruits, and rarely misses. That isn't always the case elsewhere.

[Schasz]

The NCAA archive website showed Yeagley as IU's HC through 2003 championship season so I suppose that means he coached for 6 of their 7 NCAA championships. I believe that I did state that IU had to be getting more of the cream of the crop in recruits than SLU. Thanks for giving me your take on why that may be happening. It really is not a whole lot different than recruiting for any of the major college sports...face it, some kids just want to get away from home. We've seen that with our Billiken basketball team and Missouri has experienced it with their football team too.

[courtside]

Schasz, yes you would be correct with Yeagley's stats....his son by the way was a star there and eventual solid pro player. But many of those titles have come within the past 11 years or so that Freitag has also been there. Yeagley is a legend in college soccer.

It is important to note that winning a D I soccer title is SOOOOOO much more difficult than the old early 70's and before...for SLU...incredibly more difficult....and frankly makes IU's run all the more impressive imo.

[Schasz]

It is interesting to see that since the Hoosiers first NCAA championship there has really been three schools who have been dominate in the sport...at least as far as winning the championship. Along with Indiana, Virginia under Bruce Arena had their run in the 90's and UCLA also has three championships in that time span.

SLU was the runner up to Howard in '74. I know we have made other Final Fours but the history grid in the NCAA archives only shows the champion and the runner up, and frankly I don't recall all the years that we did make it to the Final Four. I remember a year under Clarke where we played and lost a tough game...if memory serves me right that game was in Florida? I suppose what you are telling me, that unlike the afore mentioned powers in the sport...it will take some luck for the Bills to win another championship. Do you attribute that to not being able to keep all of the best kids from St. Louis? In other words, would SLU be able to win soccer championships solely if they sealed off the St. Louis Metro area?

Let me ask this too...how much has the foreign player influence in soccer helped other schools? It seems the IU players you mentioned so far are all American born, but I thought UCLA had some help from foreign born players. I suppose like we have said about the basketball team...it should not matter where the players come from.

[courtside]

It takes a little luck to win anything. College hoops, College soccer. There are always fluke games....etc...

Okay...STL high school age soccer players...a lot of depth for good nice players...but there are maybe 1-3 kids a year on average who are elite players who can play anywhere and make a significant difference anywhere.

Most seasons...SLU is 2 elite players away from being a title contender, and some years they are title contenders. Elite players can come from anywhere. Most of the time SLU has gotten theirs in the Midwest.

UVA was dominant under Arena...and Arena has continued that success with the national team. There is some excellent soccer in the Mid-Atlantic, VA, MD, NC....and also the Northeast, NJ/NY.

What people need to understand is that there are more elite players all over the country. There are also more good soccer players in general all over the country. STL has its share. But there is a fine line between good solid starter, and college difference maker.

A lot of STL high school age kids....may be on great high school or club teams...and be very good players...but they don't always translate into great elite best of the best college players.

For the most part SLU is a top 20 or better team most years. Their abilty has been final 16 or quarterfinals...depending on matchups and home games...SLU needs a little luck, good matchup etc...to get to the final four. The final four is a crap shoot of 4 great teams most years. They have come close a few times in past few years....just missing the final four. They did make it a few years prior to that...and did make it a few times under Clarke...narrowly missing out.

Why wouldn't a kid want to go to IU, or UVA or UCLA....etc...some pretty good schools with a lot to offer a kid. SLU can play with all the top schools most years. It is tough for anyone to win a title or make a final four.

If SLU can continue to be a consistent top 20 program, and make a deep run sometimes...I would be happy with that, if I am a SLU fan...

any OLD alum or OLD blue hair SLU soccer booster that thinks SLU should win titles every year...probably thinks it's your senior year in college Schasz.

Donigan knows that it is easier to get local kids to go to SLU...he would love to get all of the elite local kids. He needs to get some of them some of the time. So far, I am satisfied with his efforts. If Vedad Ibisevic had stayed at SLU for his Soph year, SLU would have made a deep run into the NCAA's last year...a legit shot to win it...now they could have also lost in round of 16 or so...Ibisevic creates space for other players, like the highly talented Will John...and it all trickles down...he was a difference maker who commanded double teams...and was named the national freshman of the year...the team got rattled when he left just before the season started and goal scoring was a huge problem. SLU also had to replace a couple of key defenders.

This upcoming season...the big question mark will be goal scoring. SLU needs to find a couple of finishers and a creative midfielder. They have a lot of experienced players returning who are solid in other areas. Early on SLU will sort out positions, moving a few guys around this year...can they get the creative midfielder they lacked last year, and one or two consistent finishers...? we shall see.

If I was asked...I think SLU will make the NCAA's without question this year. Their conference is weak, so winning it, and the conference tourney are musts. Now that leaves the half a dozen or so big time out of conference matchups...ND, IU, SMU, Duke...etc...a couple of years ago SLU won many of those games. Last year they didn't.

SLU is losing two "elite" players to the pros...one was only a Freshman, and the other a Soph. Tough to replace that in just a year.

Part of the success of a program is what your kids amount to when they leave....Brian McBride, Martin Hutton, Jackie Jewsbury, Joe Hammes, Nick Walls, Will John, Tim Ward, Dipsy Seouwane, Brad Davis....etc...are all currently playing professionally....and others of recent memory...Matt Mckeon, Mike Sorber, Santel, etc...all had good pro careers too.

BTW...this year's STL hs area player of the year chose Stanford...ever heard of it...? just kidding.

Last year, the player of the year chose Vanderbilt(not a soccer power, an off the board choice, a "new" growing program in infancy)...but that is where he wanted to go to school.

Not too many other schools can say the same.

[SLUBALLS]

Great post Courtside. I don't disagree with anythign you wrote. On your question regarding next year's team, my take has always been it will take a 110% team effort to get this team into or deep into the NCAA tourney. We will not have one or two players that can change a game for us on a consistent basis. Grant it we won't be playing with a conference full of great teams such as UAB or South Florida, but with the question marks revolving around our scoring, it may be a bit tougher than expected. I'm not really sure about Johnny D carrying the load up front; I love his play but I think he's a bit small to handle the load up front. Wileman however I think could be the guy we see step it up this year, his senior year. He's all guts and had a good year last year as far as goals and assists. The other thing that needs to be realized is that a lot of positions are up for grabs this year unlike previous years: forward, outside mid, backs. The starting team doesn't seem as set as in previous years heading into the fall. How will that motivate the new guys coming in? Maybe they elevate their game with the possibility of much more playing time.

[courtside]

One thing Balls....I do NOT want Wileman playing forward...and actually I am encouraged that in the Spring IU game Donigan moved him to center back to sort out the mess there. I do not have the alternative...but with Wileman's toughness and motor, and speed...I would like to see him in defensive midfield or back with Gasparovic...with Benne on the outside...

[SLUBALLS]

I don't disagree about Wileman. He's the closest we have to Cooper McKee out there and we need him battling in the trenches of the midfield or organizing the back. But if we do have a scoring problem where it the case of us simply being manhandled up front, I wouldn't be surprised to see Wileman get a look up front. As long as someone could fill in for him in the middle.

What I hope is that this Dado kid is the playmaker that SLU has missed since Brad Davis left.

[courtside]

Agreed.

John d will have problems with size and strength, but...I thought he was dangerous up top last year. I am not convinced of Wileman's finishing and creative abilities. I know the pickins are slim.

We agree wholeheartedly that Hemzagic needs to make an immediate impact. Is he an immediated impact player...or is he just going to be another highly touted prospect in any sport who take a year or two to develop, and is a solid player. He needs to be more than just a solid player.