Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[slufan13]

1 minute ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

The "how" of that is what I don't comprehend, SLUfan13. Just how is this going to happen? The literal BOT's of the Board of Trustees are obviously soul-less, clueless and will defend King Pestello just to keep their seats on the court. If you have the textbook on how we'll see DuBourg Hall become some sort of Jacobin wasteland, I'd like to see it on here. 

I probably agree but at a minimum we need a complete restructuring of Title IX policies and Title IX board members. Some people have far too much power. People need to be forcedbto answer questions. Stu and Jost sending an email asking for questions doesn't pressure anyone. It's a token way to say they're trying but also bail SLU out. Somebody needs to ramp up the pressure and at a minimum get SLU to publicly and officially clear Goodwin of sexual assault instead of us just having his dad's statement. 

[brianstl]

9 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

If that's the price we have to pay, then so be it. I would feel bad for the players, athletic department, etc. But this can't happen again. Not just to the basketball players or athletes, but to any students on SLU's campus. Heads have to roll and if that requires SLU taking an absolute beating, then bring it on. If nobody fights this, it's going to happen again. 

This. If the whole place has to burn to prevent the institution from destroying anymore lives, so be it.

[Bobby Metzinger]

3 minutes ago, brianstl said:

This. If the whole place has to burn to prevent the institution from destroying anymore lives, so be it.

On paper, yes, but the actual way it will or can happen is a bit of a mystery. Application versus theory. 

[JohnnyJumpUp]

42 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Perhaps they knew it was being filmed but when they heard it was shared they freaked out. They weren't sure how to handle it so they used words like rape or sexual assault to get admin/authorities attention.

Yesir

[slufan13]

Does the Belleville News Democrat have anyone who could run with this story? I assume there are enough connections with the Goodwin family to make it happen

[billiken_roy]

10 minutes ago, Box and Won said:

I was starting to recover, and then I saw the interview with the Goodwins.  The pain that they're experiencing was palpable.  It made my heart hurt.

you are so right.   it was hard to watch and not get, mad, sad, and confused.   the goodwins sit in front of me and they dont know me.  dont even know my name.  yet every game they pause and say something nice and happy to acknowledge me.   they seem to be the nicest people and you just know that they did right raising their son.   fast forward to the interview last night, and you see the anger and fear in their faces as they calmly answered very tough questions because you know they love and are very proud of their son.   

Mr goodwin said the defining  statement when he remarked, (and i assume this isnt exact) " i thought we lived in a country where you were innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent"".   

then mrs goodwin states how this will never be over for their son.  it will follow him forever.  

little miss cheerleader, krafty, pesty, and stormy..........i hope you are all so proud of yourselves.   you ruined four young men's lives with your horrible process that only protected the real problem.  the lying little cheerleader who set up the whole assorted affair.  

[kshoe]

14 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I probably agree but at a minimum we need a complete restructuring of Title IX policies and Title IX board members. Some people have far too much power. People need to be forcedbto answer questions. Stu and Jost sending an email asking for questions doesn't pressure anyone. It's a token way to say they're trying but also bail SLU out. Somebody needs to ramp up the pressure and at a minimum get SLU to publicly and officially clear Goodwin of sexual assault instead of us just having his dad's statement. 

This. When I wrote my note last night saying no more contributions from me the only thing I asked for as restructuring of Title IX policies and Title IX board members. That is the root of this problem. Its' come to the forefront because of the basketball players but I sincerely regret not doing something two years ago when I first read the story about the overnight backpack girl and the 1 yr suspension to the man that sounded just like me. The process is a tragedy every time it gets implemented and countless lives have been severely impacted by this gold standard.

I really hope Ben Fred or THE RFT have the gall to do an expose type story on the department similar to what Chris Gardner did when he tweeted out the relationships between the outside firm, the SLU Title IX department, the composition of the department, background on people, accusations of prior racial profiling, etc.

At some point the public needs to know the truth that this whole dog and pony show is rigged from the beginning against any man that gets caught in in the web.

[Bobby Metzinger]

1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

you are so right.   it was hard to watch and not get, mad, sad, and confused.   the goodwins sit in front of me and they dont know me.  dont even know my name.  yet every game they pause and say something nice and happy to acknowledge me.   they seem to be the nicest people and you just know that they did right raising their son.   fast forward to the interview last night, and you see the anger and fear in their faces as they calmly answered very tough questions because you know they love and are very proud of their son.   

Mr goodwin said the defining  statement when he remarked, (and i assume this isnt exact) " i thought we lived in a country where you were innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent"".   

then mrs goodwin states how this will never be over for their son.  it will follow him forever.  

little miss cheerleader, krafty, pesty, and stormy..........i hope you are all so proud of yourselves.   you ruined four young men's lives with your horrible process that only protected the real problem.  the lying little cheerleader who set up the whole assorted affair.  

Roy, great post. I feel for them, too. I know the idea of trying to help them financially is probably going to hinder them more than help, as it pertains to the NCAA, which is a crime unto itself - but we should kick the tires around on ideas to either spiritually or mentally keep their spirits high. To let them know they aren't in this alone. Lent obviously a time of reflection and sacrifice, so maybe instead of that extra beer at the bar, maybe some good thoughts to the Goodwin family or something.

[Billboy1]

Will we ever find out if the young ladies received any punishment? Also, any word on what the other three are doing as far as litigation.

[Bills_06]

3 minutes ago, kshoe said:

This. When I wrote my note last night saying no more contributions from me the only thing I asked for as restructuring of Title IX policies and Title IX board members. That is the root of this problem. Its' come to the forefront because of the basketball players but I sincerely regret not doing something two years ago when I first read the story about the overnight backpack girl and the 1 yr suspension to the man that sounded just like me. The process is a tragedy every time it gets implemented and countless lives have been severely impacted by this gold standard.

I really hope Ben Fred or THE RFT have the gall to do an expose type story on the department similar to what Chris Gardner did when he tweeted out the relationships between the outside firm, the SLU Title IX department, the composition of the department, background on people, accusations of prior racial profiling, etc.

At some point the public needs to know the truth that this whole dog and pony show is rigged from the beginning against any man that gets caught in in the web.

Yep I agree with this.  As much as we want Pestello and the board gone that is going to be difficult.  Donations need to be withheld until changes are made with the Title IX members and policies.  Kratky may have been out on maternity leave but she runs the office.  Weathers can't be allowed to screw over any more students.  That way hopefully when Ford is out recruiting and gets asked about this because another coach is saying SLU will punish you for no reason, he can say that the department and policies have been changed to prevent it from happening again.  

[Pistol]

I don't know 100% of the names involved with the handling of this case at SLU, but the only one I can say without a doubt needs to be fired for mishandling this is Katherine Weathers. To me, it all comes down to her poor judgment, handing down of penalties that were extreme in nature and in no way indicative of what the players actually did, and - now we know - intentional ignorance of the third-party investigator's findings. She had the opportunity to dispense justice and she chose not to do so.

So while the process is clearly broken and in need of immediate reform - after all, one person was responsible for this decision - I don't see anyone else who actually needs to face consequences for this. Now is the time for them to fix their office, fix the process, and ensure that these cases are handled in a fair and timely manner moving forward. Kratky was on maternity leave (if you think the school is susceptible to lawsuits from these players, then you'll agree that firing someone on maternity leave is a bad idea) so it's hard to say she needs to go because of this, but if I'm her boss, when she returns my conversation with her is: 'You need to get your house in order. This office did not function properly while you were out.' From this office we've seen incompetence, a lack of transparency, and a baffling pattern of decision making. This needs to be overhauled immediately. And then if they fail to do so, I think you can have the conversations along the lines of "I don't think you share our vision and it's time to move on."

But I still don't see anyone needing to be fired right now other than Katherine Weathers.

And given that this is SLU, I doubt any of the above will happen.

I know his name is brought up in every other post, but I'll say it again: Pestello removed himself from this process completely, from day one. The things that I think he failed at were communicating with the SLU community, and not having his office make clear to the Title IX office that this needs to be handled in a timely manner. It's not what we want to hear, but presidents have to recuse themselves from these cases. Biondi did the same thing in 2010 (which, to be fair, was in a much shorter timeline once the players were notified of the complaint in the fall), and he probably would've done the same thing this time around. The difference is that he probably would have had people under him saying, "Hey, where do we stand with this? Why's it taking so long? We need to issue another statement" and whatnot. So whatever Pestello is being criticized for, his real problem is failure to communicate, and even more importantly, that the people under him operate with no sense of urgency.

[CBFan]

Along with withholding money we have to protest at games and make the administration very uncomfortable.  Chanting Goodwin, free the four at all times will be picked up by the media because if we make enough noise we will be heard.  We had the free the three chant but it was never organized but it was heard.  If we want to wake these administrators up a coordinated response at the games through social media will be a headache for the administrators.

[TGSLU]

I am still confused by this outcome.  I would hope there is a federal appeal so a real judge can make a legal determination.  SLU has seemingly conjured a kangaroo court proceeding designed to enforce the penalties on certain individuals it had determined guilty of some crime from the very beginning.  What is more disturbing is to see such an outward and public display of discrimination (racial and gender) from an institution that is supposed to be a leading Jesuit university.  Needless to say, SLU has not and will not be a leading university of any kind when its leadership is incompetent.  This should be a wake up call to the Board of Trustees - if they truly have any function.

[JMM28]

2 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Pestello removed himself from this process completely, from day one.

That really doesn’t hold water as an excuse though. He is the CEO of this operation. Everything and everyone reports to him. Ignorance is not a defense. And it shouldn’t be here. He should be terminated for this before anyone else. 

[RiseAndGrind]

4 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I don't know 100% of the names involved with the handling of this case at SLU, but the only one I can say without a doubt needs to be fired for mishandling this is Katherine Weathers. To me, it all comes down to her poor judgment, handing down of penalties that were extreme in nature and in no way indicative of what the players actually did, and - now we know - intentional ignorance of the third-party investigator's findings. She had the opportunity to dispense justice and she chose not to do so.

So while the process is clearly broken and in need of immediate reform - after all, one person was responsible for this decision - I don't see anyone else who actually needs to face consequences for this. Now is the time for them to fix their office, fix the process, and ensure that these cases are handled in a fair and timely manner moving forward. Kratky was on maternity leave (if you think the school is susceptible to lawsuits from these players, then you'll agree that firing someone on maternity leave is a bad idea) so it's hard to say she needs to go because of this, but if I'm her boss, when she returns my conversation with her is: 'You need to get your house in order. This office did not function properly while you were out.' From this office we've seen incompetence, a lack of transparency, and a baffling pattern of decision making. This needs to be overhauled immediately. And then if they fail to do so, I think you can have the conversations along the lines of "I don't think you share our vision and it's time to move on."

But I still don't see anyone needing to be fired right now other than Katherine Weathers.

And given that this is SLU, I doubt any of the above will happen.

I know his name is brought up in every other post, but I'll say it again: Pestello removed himself from this process completely, from day one. The things that I think he failed at were communicating with the SLU community, and not having his office make clear to the Title IX office that this needs to be handled in a timely manner. It's not what we want to hear, but presidents have to recuse themselves from these cases. Biondi did the same thing in 2010 (which, to be fair, was in a much shorter timeline once the players were notified of the complaint in the fall), and he probably would've done the same thing this time around. The difference is that he probably would have had people under him saying, "Hey, where do we stand with this? Why's it taking so long? We need to issue another statement" and whatnot. So whatever Pestello is being criticized for, his real problem is failure to communicate, and even more importantly, that the people under him operate with no sense of urgency.

I don’t know if he needs to be fired, but these are pretty big mistakes 

[Bills_06]

3 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I know his name is brought up in every other post, but I'll say it again: Pestello removed himself from this process completely, from day one. The things that I think he failed at were communicating with the SLU community, and not having his office make clear to the Title IX office that this needs to be handled in a timely manner. It's not what we want to hear, but presidents have to recuse themselves from these cases. Biondi did the same thing in 2010 (which, to be fair, was in a much shorter timeline once the players were notified of the complaint in the fall), and he probably would've done the same thing this time around. The difference is that he probably would have had people under him saying, "Hey, where do we stand with this? Why's it taking so long? We need to issue another statement" and whatnot. So whatever Pestello is being criticized for, his real problem is failure to communicate, and even more importantly, that the people under him operate with no sense of urgency.

I do agree with you here but my thought process always comes back to cases where schools don't punish actual athletes that commit sexual assault.  Very rarely in those cases do you see people say, "well the President removed himself completely from this situation so he/she is okay."  It is always, "this operates under you so you are ultimately responsible for it as well."  Too light of a punishment or allowing Weather to punish a student when there is no evidence falls on him.  

[billiken_roy]

the board of trustees and the leadership there need to take responsibility as well.   who else could have inserted more leverage to make things right when it was obviously going wrong and boosters everywhere were incensed.   instead it appears to me they sheepishly remained out of sight and hands off.   shame on them.   i know no one can fire them, but if they had any decency those at the top would do the right thing and resign asap for their inadequate action which led to four young black men of achieving a dream of a slu education, playing the game they love and permanently staining their lives forever.   myself.......i couldnt sleep at night knowing i could have done something and didnt.   i let pesty, krafty and mainly stormy speak for me and speak wrong and did nothing.  

[Pistol]

3 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

That really doesn’t hold water as an excuse though. He is the CEO of this operation. Everything and everyone reports to him. Ignorance is not a defense. And it shouldn’t be here. He should be terminated for this before anyone else. 

 

2 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

I don’t know if he needs to be fired, but these are pretty big mistakes 

 

1 minute ago, Bills_06 said:

I do agree with you here but my thought process always comes back to cases where schools don't punish actual athletes that commit sexual assault.  Very rarely in those cases do you see people say, "well the President removed himself completely from this situation so he/she is okay."  It is always, "this operates under you so you are ultimately responsible for it as well."  Too light of a punishment or allowing Weather to punish a student when there is no evidence falls on him.  

I agree with all of this. My point is that so many people are acting like he actively screwed this up, and the truth is that he more passively failed in his position. He had no agenda here or whatever else he's been accused of; he simply did nothing, and that's unfortunately not good enough when you're the president of a university.

[Pistol]

I also think that he could do a lot of good right now if he held a press conference or allowed himself to be interviewed about it. Why did this all happen the way it did? What would he change about this process? Does he think justice has been served? What is his responsibility as president? That kind of thing.

Again, it's not gonna happen, and that's his failure. But a little damage control could at least be done.

[Bobby Metzinger]

3 minutes ago, Pistol said:

 

 

I agree with all of this. My point is that so many people are acting like he actively screwed this up, and the truth is that he more passively failed in his position. He had no agenda here or whatever else he's been accused of; he simply did nothing, and that's unfortunately not good enough when you're the president of a university.

Agree - Pestello didn't actively use the screwdriver, but he opened up his tool chest, picked out a flathead and gave it to Weathers. Passive/active, he's the president of the University. The absence of leadership is appalling. 

[Pistol]

21 minutes ago, kshoe said:

This. When I wrote my note last night saying no more contributions from me the only thing I asked for as restructuring of Title IX policies and Title IX board members. That is the root of this problem. Its' come to the forefront because of the basketball players but I sincerely regret not doing something two years ago when I first read the story about the overnight backpack girl and the 1 yr suspension to the man that sounded just like me. The process is a tragedy every time it gets implemented and countless lives have been severely impacted by this gold standard.

I really hope Ben Fred or THE RFT have the gall to do an expose type story on the department similar to what Chris Gardner did when he tweeted out the relationships between the outside firm, the SLU Title IX department, the composition of the department, background on people, accusations of prior racial profiling, etc.

At some point the public needs to know the truth that this whole dog and pony show is rigged from the beginning against any man that gets caught in in the web.

Well said. This is a structural issue that needs immediate repair. If people within the Title IX office disagree and think their process, which allows a single individual to make judgments without consideration of the details of the case, doesn't need to be fixed, then they can go.

[brianstl]

I think Benfred will eventually write the column many of us what him to write.  I just think he wants more information to be publicly available before he puts his neck on the line.  It is probably the correct strategy for him considering where he is at in his career.

[TRN]

This is a story made for Bob Ley and “Outside the Lines”.  A reflection of a systemic failure on a college campus.

[moytoy12]

 

[Littlebill]

8 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

 

Good for Ty. He'll fill it up in the MEAC...