Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[RiseAndGrind]

7 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Yeah, it's worse for most major college basketball players. Let's be honest, these guys view basketball as their career path (might as well be their major, if art is a major why isn't a sport with a clear path to a professional career?) and that has been severely impacted for 3 of the 4. They will always be able to find a school to get college credit at, but their ability to transfer to another major college basketball program has likely been significantly impacted. And then that presumably will have impacts on their professional career. And after that playing career, enjoy getting a good coaching job with that in your background if that is the route you decide to go. These guys are getting f*cked over big time and I AM TIRED OF IT! How could anyone view these initial punishments (expulsion and multi year suspensions) as being in line with the transgressions? It is a load of bullsh!t and I AM TIRED OF IT! Be better than this SLU!

I think I put this in an earlier post, but I find it ironic (or just sad, I guess) that a Jesuit University is punishing 4 individuals by taking away essentially their only path to an education. Jesuits are supposed to be educators. Punish them in basketball related activities, but let them stay in school. 

[Cowboy]

6 minutes ago, 73Billiken said:

It's unlikely that Fred P & Company will ever provide any details short of any legal action.  It is a clown show with too many twists and turns to fathom why.

-I am not an attorney and my take comes largely if not entirely from info on this board, but I see the legal action as big time leverage as the players' attorney goes into a settlement conference and says we are going to trial, we going to exhaust all areas of discovery, we will depose every witness, we will in a court of law expose this sham 'investigation' by the 'scool', we will shove this gold standard where the sun don't shine unless SLU writes very large checks to my clients, issues a complete apology and admits to mistakenly branding these young men in a bad light, all of the 'gold standard' will be exposed for the clown show it is, the cheerleader's name will become known and her father's head will explode when she is on the stand telling how she organized the orgy, bought the condoms and had a great time until hours later getting a call saying she looks good naked and then filed a false police report....at least that is how it would work on tv

[73Billiken]

8 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-I am not an attorney and my take comes largely if not entirely from info on this board, but I see the legal action as big time leverage as the players' attorney goes into a settlement conference and says we are going to trial, we going to exhaust all areas of discovery, we will depose every witness, we will in a court of law expose this sham 'investigation' by the 'scool', we will shove this gold standard where the sun don't shine unless SLU writes very large checks to my clients, issues a complete apology and admits to mistakenly branding these young men in a bad light, all of the 'gold standard' will be exposed for the clown show it is, the cheerleader's name will become known and her father's head will explode when she is on the stand telling how she organized the orgy, bought the condoms and had a great time until hours later getting a call saying she looks good naked and then filed a false police report....at least that is how it would work on tv

Dilly Dilly.!!!

[SLU_Lax]

12 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-I am not an attorney and my take comes largely if not entirely from info on this board, but I see the legal action as big time leverage as the players' attorney goes into a settlement conference and says we are going to trial, we going to exhaust all areas of discovery, we will depose every witness, we will in a court of law expose this sham 'investigation' by the 'scool', we will shove this gold standard where the sun don't shine unless SLU writes very large checks to my clients, issues a complete apology and admits to mistakenly branding these young men in a bad light, all of the 'gold standard' will be exposed for the clown show it is, the cheerleader's name will become known and her father's head will explode when she is on the stand telling how she organized the orgy, bought the condoms and had a great time until hours later getting a call saying she looks good naked and then filed a false police report....at least that is how it would work on tv

I feel like you can get a really big check or you can get a really big apology.  It is very difficult to get both.

The really big check usually comes when you promise not to talk about the case or to talk badly about the school.  It allows the school to save face.

[TGSLU]

1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

One of the biggest mistakes of leadership is not recognizing when something is a mess and admitting it.  Once you admit it then you can fix it.  If you never admit it you simply end up making it worse trying to prop up an already bad decision/process.  You will have a bigger PR disaster then and create even more problems long term. 

Completely agree.  Given the facts, the HO decision seems flawed from the beginning.  SLU's incomprehensible acceptance of the decision and proposed enforcement of severe penalties against just some of the parties involved, compounded the cluster.  SLU is in a no win situation.  Continue with the punishment and there is an appeal to a real court who will understand consent cannot be revoked after an act has occurred and it will also get to deal with how or whether consent can be given or revoked for a photograph or video.  In addition, the court will get to investigate why only the male participants in the sexual act have been vilified.  If SLU backs off the punishment it will have to admit it made a mistake by (1) engaging a HO with a perceived if not actual bias against the male participants, and HO who made a decision contrary to recommendation and findings of the investigators and (2) enforcing a flawed decision and severely punishing only the male participants.  Either way SLU looks bad but I think a federal appeals loss and related publicity would be worse than an admission of mistake.  SLU may be able to tamp down the mistake and maybe even get points for such admission. 

[Quality Is Job 1]

10 minutes ago, SLU_Lax said:

I feel like you can get a really big check or you can get a really big apology.  It is very difficult to get both.

The really big check usually comes when you promise not to talk about the case or to talk badly about the school.  It allows the school to save face.

Apparently SLU has, behind the scenes, already persuaded Ty Graves and Adonys Henriquez to refrain from assailing the school in the media -- at least thus far.

[Cowboy]

45 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Apparently SLU has, behind the scenes, already persuaded Ty Graves and Adonys Henriquez to refrain from assailing the school in the media -- at least thus far.

-this part as it appears SLU has what it wanted from these two, leaving the U, I imagine they have not yet begun to fight

[slufan13]

I would think Graves and or Henriquez will start a media rampage once a decision has been made on the remaining players. The way this has gone, SLU will lengthen the punishment if anyone speaks out against them 

[Bills_06]

I get 05s point about looking bad if the appeals don't take long based on how long investigation took but I feel they look bad either way.  SLUs policy for appeal is based on not following procedure or new information and only the basis for the appeal can be reviewed, not the entire report so the longer it takes the more it seems they really screwed up the procedure or ignored evidence.  Of course I could easily have seen Weathers getting the report in an email, opening it, reading the first sentence that says these guys were accused of sexual assault and hitting the "I'm feeling triggered" button and not reading anything else and making her decision on punishment.  

Basically throughout the process anything that seems to make sense to do, SLU has done the opposite.  If they would've hired Bizzaro Pestello and Bizzaro Kratky and this would've been done in a couple weeks with solid reasoning behind their decision.  

[Quality Is Job 1]

6 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I would think Graves and or Henriquez will start a media rampage once a decision has been made on the remaining players. The way this has gone, SLU will lengthen the punishment if anyone speaks out against them.

That would be absolutely wrong on their part.  They're supposed to concern themselves only with justice, not institutional interest (including what appears in the media).  Isn't that what the Title 9 expectations they're held to require?

[BrockL]

7 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I would think Graves and or Henriquez will start a media rampage once a decision has been made on the remaining players. The way this has gone, SLU will lengthen the punishment if anyone speaks out against them 

It's pure speculation (but so is the rest of this thread), but I'm not sure Henriquez will do a "media rampage." I think he may just go play pro ball somewhere and leave the past behind him. Graves might be a different story, especially since his dad has already spoken out. 

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, Cowboy said:

-I am not an attorney and my take comes largely if not entirely from info on this board, but I see the legal action as big time leverage as the players' attorney goes into a settlement conference and says we are going to trial, we going to exhaust all areas of discovery, we will depose every witness, we will in a court of law expose this sham 'investigation' by the 'scool', we will shove this gold standard where the sun don't shine unless SLU writes very large checks to my clients, issues a complete apology and admits to mistakenly branding these young men in a bad light, all of the 'gold standard' will be exposed for the clown show it is, the cheerleader's name will become known and her father's head will explode when she is on the stand telling how she organized the orgy, bought the condoms and had a great time until hours later getting a call saying she looks good naked and then filed a false police report....at least that is how it would work on tv

cowboy's best post of all time.  way to go!

[billiken_roy]

14 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-this part as it appears SLU has what it wanted from these two, leaving the U, I imagine they have not yet begun to fight

or they are already settled with slu financially in an effort to get them to go away and be quiet.  

[cheeseman]

6 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

That would be absolutely wrong on their part.  They're supposed to concern themselves only with justice, not institutional interest (including what appears in the media).  Isn't that what the Title 9 expectations they're held to require?

The purpose of Title 9 is to protect the rights of the students involved.  The female student's point has been heard and duly accepted - in other words not swept under the rug.  Now Title 9 is not intended to simply punish one side unless that is what is the correct thing to do such as it appears in the case of Phillips at Missouri.  Once consent was established then the entire charge of sexual exploitation or assault is mitigated or nullified.  The institutional interest is best served by the truth and fair adjudication of the matter.  While I realize that had the video/picture not been posted this is something none of us would have ever known about and if it was done without consent then the person who did it should be punished.  The others simply are no different then a person who sees a mugging taking place and does not intercede - they are not held responsible for not doing so.  The key thing here is and always has been that no charges have been filed for either the frolicking or the video/picture posting which we know is against the law if done without consent.  Makes you wonder.

[SLU_Lax]

2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

or they are already settled with slu financially in an effort to get them to go away and be quiet.  

My guess is they are just being (mostly) quiet to maintain that bargaining chip when working out a settlement. Of course that could change depending on how the negotiations go. 

[dlarry]

6 hours ago, BrockL said:

It's pure speculation (but so is the rest of this thread), but I'm not sure Henriquez will do a "media rampage." I think he may just go play pro ball somewhere and leave the past behind him. Graves might be a different story, especially since his dad has already spoken out. 

I have a feeling Graves and his family go nuclear on the scool. No reason not to if you believe you are innocent.

[Clock_Tower]

If Graves and Henriquez are truly gone, and Bishop is a Senior, then signs appear to be pointing favorably toward the 4th player. Shocking he would be punished at the end like the others but not all along. Delay now works in favor of the team. And compromise would appear at hand as middle ground exists. Whether the partisans would even consider middle ground appears to be a source ofthe delay. 

[kshoe]

20 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

If Graves and Henriquez are truly gone, and Bishop is a Senior, then signs appear to be pointing favorably toward the 4th player. Shocking he would be punished at the end like the others but not all along. Delay now works in favor of the team. And compromise would appear at hand as middle ground exists. Whether the partisans would even consider middle ground appears to be a source ofthe delay. 

Bishop is currently a junior academically and a sophomore athletically.

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

If Graves and Henriquez are truly gone, and Bishop is a Senior, then signs appear to be pointing favorably toward the 4th player. Shocking he would be punished at the end like the others but not all along. Delay now works in favor of the team. And compromise would appear at hand as middle ground exists. Whether the partisans would even consider middle ground appears to be a source ofthe delay. 

Ultimately the bottom line here is if the last 2 simply had consensual sex or just watched then I am not sure I understand why any punishment other than maybe an act of contrition and attending sensitivity classes would be required.  Now if the girls involved want to attend a different class then fine.  I still don't understand why the poster(s) of the video/pix have not been charged - we may be missing something. 

[Pistol]

Seems like a lot of people expect Graves, Henriquez, and possibly the others (hopefully not) to go nuclear against the school in the media. Is that because of Rosenblum and his reputation?

Because normally it isn’t that satisfying. The player(s) depart, say nothing, and then a year or so later file a lawsuit, and then there’s a settlement of an undisclosed amount. 

People say they have “nothing to lose” by scorching SLU in the press. That isn’t true. They have nothing to gain if there’s some money potentially on the line.

[juniorbill76]

So many questions remain (a summary - feel free to add):

Why did the other two girls choose not to participate in the investigation, if those reports are true?

What’s in the police report?

Was this the girls’ first on-camera rodeo? Is there a way to check their social media accounts, even if private, blocked or deleted, perhaps with a court order?

If there was video, what did the girls say or do on it? Did one reach for the camera/phone, say stop, or did they continue what they were doing?

Why has one player been playing all year?

Why were the other three allowed to practice all year, and attend classes?

Why were they moved off and on campus several times?

Why did Ty Graves leave now?

Why did AD get an agent now?

Why is AD still listed on the roster?

How did the ruling compare with the report from the outside firm?

Who put the tribbles in the quadrotriticale? And what was in the grain that killed them?

[Clock_Tower]

2 hours ago, Pistol said:

Seems like a lot of people expect Graves, Henriquez, and possibly the others (hopefully not) to go nuclear against the school in the media. Is that because of Rosenblum and his reputation?

Because normally it isn’t that satisfying. The player(s) depart, say nothing, and then a year or so later file a lawsuit, and then there’s a settlement of an undisclosed amount. 

People say they have “nothing to lose” by scorching SLU in the press. That isn’t true. They have nothing to gain if there’s some money potentially on the line.

+1

And even if/when other colleges take our players without further punishment, a scorched earth and public battle against SLU will only draw negative attention and will likely awaken and organize women’s groups with the likes of Weather and Kratky which are not unique to SLU  but are on every college campus. 

2 year probation by SLU = guilt = sexual predator 

Accepting, playing and rewarding proven guilty sexual predators would be a public relations disaster for their new college. And if activated at their new school, they will sit more next year as well. 

[Macallan 18]

43 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

+1

And even if/when other colleges take our players without further punishment, a scorched earth and public battle against SLU will only draw negative attention and will likely awaken and organize women’s groups with the likes of Weather and Kratky which are not unique to SLU  but are on every college campus. 

2 year probation by SLU = guilt = sexual predator 

Accepting, playing and rewarding proven guilty sexual predators would be a public relations disaster for their new college. And if activated at their new school, they will sit more next year as well. 

I don’t expect we’ll hear from either Graves or Henriquez again.  What Pistol said and it is clear Graves cut a deal to be able to leave the school as a student in good standing and not as an expelled sexual predator.  To do that I’m sure they agreed to a non-disparage and agreed to be completely done.

Henriquez May have done something similar, and it sounds like he is leaving the country to go pro and leaving SLU and this situation in the rear view mirror.

While two had to fall this may pave the way for Bishop and Goodwin or Goodwin to be sble to stay.  Clearly deals are in the works now.

 

 

 

[Pistol]

I'm not sure they would have signed any agreements with the school on their way out. I doubt it. Graves in particular was very clear that he left on his own accord. 

There's just no upside to trashing the place if they're planning lawsuits.

[cheeseman]

5 hours ago, Pistol said:

Seems like a lot of people expect Graves, Henriquez, and possibly the others (hopefully not) to go nuclear against the school in the media. Is that because of Rosenblum and his reputation?

Because normally it isn’t that satisfying. The player(s) depart, say nothing, and then a year or so later file a lawsuit, and then there’s a settlement of an undisclosed amount. 

People say they have “nothing to lose” by scorching SLU in the press. That isn’t true. They have nothing to gain if there’s some money potentially on the line.

Good point - why blow your chance by blowing steam off unnecessarily.