Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[CBFan]

1 hour ago, slufan13 said:

I could see a scenario where they settle on a 1 semester suspension for Goodwin. If that's the case I hope they hand it down now and we have him for all of next season 

I have been thinking the same thing that he will finish this semester sit out next semester.  The other 3 have moved on and the local kids asks for forgiveness and stays.

Of coarse this is SLU and they like to disappoint.

[almaman]

1 hour ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Honestly, I could see him going to Juco, and with his high numbers and his high GPA, being able to go to a high caliber school.  Then, 2-3 years from now, in the lead up to the national title game, he can be one of the lead stories about how his college career got sidetracked (if reports are to be believed) by an outrageous set of circumstances.  SLU can be the face of Title IX investigations and application gone wrong.  Honestly, if that doesn’t sound like SLU... .I should probably go play the lottery.

Yep right up there with Dred Scott, Curt Flood. They lost so that those that follow gain.

[kshoe]

26 minutes ago, HoosierBilliken said:

The only reason these biases in SLU's Title IX program came to the public's attention is because SLU basketball players were victimized by it.  I am really concerned about the many regular male students at SLU who probably never received an impartial Title IX investigation in the past.  We should be thankful that the public has been made aware of SLU's negligence in this matter, so that proper changes can be made.  OR, Pestello will show weakness and do nothing hoping that people will forget.  

 

This. I remember reading the article about the overnight bag kid two years ago and thinking how ridiculous the policy was and feeling bad for the guy, but not really concerning myself it after that. Obviously when you put the entire fate of the basketball program into the same process, I care a lot more but it doesn't change the fact that this Title IX process as set-up at SLU is brutally unfair to all men.

[slu72]

2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

agree.  and i actually expect since they went 2 months over on the first decision maybe we can make through the end of the season.   

But beyond then? I would, and feel most on here, would like to see J. Goodwin finish his career as a Billiken. He's the best all around player we've seen in how long I can't remember. Not knocking the Legend, but J. Goodwin's more of an impact player.

[HoosierPal]

12 minutes ago, slu72 said:

But beyond then? I would, and feel most on here, would like to see J. Goodwin finish his career as a Billiken. He's the best all around player we've seen in how long I can't remember. Not knocking the Legend, but J. Goodwin's more of an impact player.

Huh?  Larry Hughes is one of the top 3 players EVER to don a Billiken uniform. The other two in the same conversation are Anthony Bonner and Ed Macauley.  Hughes took the Bills, pretty much by himself, to the second round of the NCAA tourney.  Hughes has what is likely an untouchable record of 670 points in a season.  He hit 40 against Marquette and a season high 12 boards against Vandy.  And as you know, was a lottery NBA pick after his single year at SLU.  Kind of hard to have more impact than that.

Not knocking Goodwin who is a very good player, but he has a ways to go to wear Mr. Hughes' shoes.

[cheeseman]

Someone earlier said that the Title IX Office actually rewrote the student handbook.  If this is true then my question is did the BOT approve it - normally something of this importance would be either approved or at least shared for some kind of nod from the BOT to move forward.  Also, if a handbook exists, is it given to every student each year?  If not, then how can you use it to punish someone if they did not know what was allowed and what was not as well as what the consequences would be if any rule was broken.  Now I know some would say that well some behavior is just understood not to be appropriate such as running around the school  property naked.  The problem with that is you then are really relying on the fact that that kind of behavior is also against the law and would be the reason a student should know not to do it.  So, if that is what you are basing your ability to act then why would not the fact that no charges or arrests were made given that the activity was consensual in S2 also be something for you not to act?  Normally if you are going to apply some outside set of rules that are different and above what would be legal or not then you would have to show that you informed everyone/students either by giving them a copy of the handbook or had them sign off that they had been informed in some reasonable manner.  I realize that some would say students should just know what is appropriate or not but the problem is if you are 18 then you are an adult and in our society what adults do in the privacy of their domicile is their business unless laws are broken.  Yes I know the filming part may have been illegal but how do you prove all 4 males did it - you probably can not - the person who posted it is ultimately responsible not the other bystanders.  The interesting thing here is that when I went to SLU many years ago nobody every gave me or even mentioned anything about a student code of conduct - if this is still the current practice then I think the school could be on shaky ground.  Now I know some will say SLU is a private school so they can do whatever they want but this is not true at all - the school can not violate someone's constitutional rights or contractual obligations.  I am not a lawyer but if you agreed to give a scholarship to or accept someone's tuition payment then would you not have to show fair cause for rescinding your acceptance to educate the person?  If the reason you rescinded your obligation then would you not have to show that the person knew what the rules were that you are using as the basis to suspend/expel them which takes us back to the beginning - did you explain in some reasonable way what the code of conduct was so everyone knew what would happen if they did action A?  Now as I said I am not a lawyer so I am willing to admit that I may be all wrong here and I would like someone who knows explain to me what I am missing.

[VeniceMenace]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

Huh?  Larry Hughes is one of the top 3 players EVER to don a Billiken uniform. The other two in the same conversation are Anthony Bonner and Ed Macauley.  Hughes took the Bills, pretty much by himself, to the second round of the NCAA tourney.  Hughes has what is likely an untouchable record of 670 points in a season.  He hit 40 against Marquette and a season high 12 boards against Vandy.  And as you know, was a lottery NBA pick after his single year at SLU.  Kind of hard to have more impact than that.

Not knocking Goodwin who is a very good player, but he has a ways to go to wear Mr. Hughes' shoes.

What about Rasheed Shabazz?

[SLU_Lax]

24 minutes ago, VeniceMenace said:

What about Rasheed Shabazz?

What about him?  He did shoot a perfect 1.000 from the line. What about Kevin Shortal?

[HoosierBilliken]

From a lawyer specialist in Title IX compliance:

"Recently I interviewed a hearing-panel member in preparation for litigation. When I asked her why she had agreed to serve, she said that she was concerned that men on campus were raping women on campus without accountability, and that she thought she could make a difference."

        - THIS IS THE PROBLEM

The lawyer properly gives certain guidelines for Title IX members as follows:

"Lack of bias. Ensuring that committee members do not have an actual or perceived bias is paramount...because it is the fair and just thing to do...Perceived bias can be tricky. This is evaluated from the perception of the parties involved in the hearing, not the panel member. A panel member may be able to hear a case and have no true bias toward a party; however, past interactions or his or her campus position may create a perceived bias.  An overly aggressive panel member can be problematic...Faculty and staff members who gravitate toward serving on these panels (and who have the most knowledge about sexual misconduct) are often in the area of women’s studies and advocacy. While this may not pose an issue for that member in that he or she can still effectively listen to, evaluate, and weigh the evidence presented, it may raise a red flag for one party or another in a proceeding.  Likewise, if a member of the campus has been particularly vocal on either side of the Title IX issue, a perception of bias may result.

Diversity...Be sure to have representatives from various areas of campus on your panel."

          - TOTAL PERCEIVED BIAS BY THE PUBLIC AND PLAYERS DUE TO LACK OF DIVERSITY AND STACKING THE TITLE IX PROGRAM WITH FEMALE SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIORS

Write the check Pestello.

 

[moytoy12]

1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

Someone earlier said that the Title IX Office actually rewrote the student handbook.  If this is true then my question is did the BOT approve it - normally something of this importance would be either approved or at least shared for some kind of nod from the BOT to move forward.  Also, if a handbook exists, is it given to every student each year?  If not, then how can you use it to punish someone if they did not know what was allowed and what was not as well as what the consequences would be if any rule was broken.  Now I know some would say that well some behavior is just understood not to be appropriate such as running around the school  property naked.  The problem with that is you then are really relying on the fact that that kind of behavior is also against the law and would be the reason a student should know not to do it.  So, if that is what you are basing your ability to act then why would not the fact that no charges or arrests were made given that the activity was consensual in S2 also be something for you not to act?  Normally if you are going to apply some outside set of rules that are different and above what would be legal or not then you would have to show that you informed everyone/students either by giving them a copy of the handbook or had them sign off that they had been informed in some reasonable manner.  I realize that some would say students should just know what is appropriate or not but the problem is if you are 18 then you are an adult and in our society what adults do in the privacy of their domicile is their business unless laws are broken.  Yes I know the filming part may have been illegal but how do you prove all 4 males did it - you probably can not - the person who posted it is ultimately responsible not the other bystanders.  The interesting thing here is that when I went to SLU many years ago nobody every gave me or even mentioned anything about a student code of conduct - if this is still the current practice then I think the school could be on shaky ground.  Now I know some will say SLU is a private school so they can do whatever they want but this is not true at all - the school can not violate someone's constitutional rights or contractual obligations.  I am not a lawyer but if you agreed to give a scholarship to or accept someone's tuition payment then would you not have to show fair cause for rescinding your acceptance to educate the person?  If the reason you rescinded your obligation then would you not have to show that the person knew what the rules were that you are using as the basis to suspend/expel them which takes us back to the beginning - did you explain in some reasonable way what the code of conduct was so everyone knew what would happen if they did action A?  Now as I said I am not a lawyer so I am willing to admit that I may be all wrong here and I would like someone who knows explain to me what I am missing.

Based on my background and experience, the student handbook is not something that would require BOT approval (e.g. a resolution by the BOT approving it).  

[Bobby Metzinger]

I’m not sure if anyone is paying attention to another prominent Missouri coach being railroaded by the culture in Columbia with its Title IX folks, but the Tiger softball coach was fired two weeks before the season opener because of misconduct allegations. Says the AD gave no cause or pointed to a single incident, just paints a broad swath. Society is becoming increasingly soft. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/softball/2018/01/26/veteran-missouri-softball-coach-fired/109844768/

[TheOne]

12 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Someone earlier said that the Title IX Office actually rewrote the student handbook.  If this is true then my question is did the BOT approve it - normally something of this importance would be either approved or at least shared for some kind of nod from the BOT to move forward.  Also, if a handbook exists, is it given to every student each year?  If not, then how can you use it to punish someone if they did not know what was allowed and what was not as well as what the consequences would be if any rule was broken.  Now I know some would say that well some behavior is just understood not to be appropriate such as running around the school  property naked.  The problem with that is you then are really relying on the fact that that kind of behavior is also against the law and would be the reason a student should know not to do it.  So, if that is what you are basing your ability to act then why would not the fact that no charges or arrests were made given that the activity was consensual in S2 also be something for you not to act?  Normally if you are going to apply some outside set of rules that are different and above what would be legal or not then you would have to show that you informed everyone/students either by giving them a copy of the handbook or had them sign off that they had been informed in some reasonable manner.  I realize that some would say students should just know what is appropriate or not but the problem is if you are 18 then you are an adult and in our society what adults do in the privacy of their domicile is their business unless laws are broken.  Yes I know the filming part may have been illegal but how do you prove all 4 males did it - you probably can not - the person who posted it is ultimately responsible not the other bystanders.  The interesting thing here is that when I went to SLU many years ago nobody every gave me or even mentioned anything about a student code of conduct - if this is still the current practice then I think the school could be on shaky ground.  Now I know some will say SLU is a private school so they can do whatever they want but this is not true at all - the school can not violate someone's constitutional rights or contractual obligations.  I am not a lawyer but if you agreed to give a scholarship to or accept someone's tuition payment then would you not have to show fair cause for rescinding your acceptance to educate the person?  If the reason you rescinded your obligation then would you not have to show that the person knew what the rules were that you are using as the basis to suspend/expel them which takes us back to the beginning - did you explain in some reasonable way what the code of conduct was so everyone knew what would happen if they did action A?  Now as I said I am not a lawyer so I am willing to admit that I may be all wrong here and I would like someone who knows explain to me what I am missing.

No disrespect but blobs of text like this are so difficult to read that they are commonly ignored.  Please do your best to split your thoughts up in order to make your ideas and communications as clear as possible.

[Tilkowsky]

15 hours ago, HoosierBilliken said:

The only reason these biases in SLU's Title IX program came to the public's attention is because SLU basketball players were victimized by it.  I am really concerned about the many regular male students at SLU who probably never received an impartial Title IX investigation in the past.  We should be thankful that the public has been made aware of SLU's negligence in this matter, so that proper changes can be made.  OR, Pestello will show weakness and do nothing hoping that people will forget.  

 

Yeah the SLU basketball players are the victims. That is laughable. Players who exhibit conduct unbecoming of a SLU Varsity basketball player.

You and billikenroy (who is worried about the rebuild and not the fact these players were extremely stupid) plus many other posters only care how it impacts the basketball team.

Somebody else said that Ms. Weathers has done this before. Yet provided no proof. Not surprising there was no proof just an allegation.

As far as Earlywine goes - a SLU poster defending a Mizzou coach. In my opinion the AD didn't owe Earlywine any explanation. The coaches serve at the pleasure of the AD. Similar to how the Attorney General and FBI Director serve at the pleasure of the President.

In the private sector that is how people are fired. So you condemn the acedemic laden Title IX process - yet when they do something similar to the private sector you complain about that.

Sorry folks you can't have it both ways.

 

[cheeseman]

2 minutes ago, TheOne said:

No disrespect but blobs of text like this are so difficult to read that they are commonly ignored.  Please do your best to split your thoughts up in order to make your ideas and communications as clear as possible.

Sorry to tax your big brain Mister Trump - no disrespect

[Billiken Rich]

3 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Sorry to tax your big brain Mister Trump - no disrespect

No offense either but it was funny that I had just given up on the last hree quarters of your post when I read TheOne's reply......

[JettFlight5]

5 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

Yeah the SLU basketball players are the victims. That is laughable. Players who exhibit conduct unbecoming of a SLU Varsity basketball player.

You and billikenroy (who is worried about the rebuild and not the fact these players were extremely stupid) plus many other posters only care how it impacts the basketball team.

Somebody else said that Ms. Weathers has done this before. Yet provided no proof. Not surprising there was no proof just an allegation.

As far as Earlywine goes - a SLU poster defending a Mizzou coach. In my opinion the AD didn't owe Earlywine any explanation. The coaches serve at the pleasure of the AD. Similar to how the Attorney General and FBI Director serve at the pleasure of the President.

In the private sector that is how people are fired. So you condemn the acedemic laden Title IX process - yet when they do something similar to the private sector you complain about that.

Sorry folks you can't have it both ways.

 

This is a fan message board if you haven’t figured that out yet. So people caring about the basketball team are probably going to post here.  The players were not charged, nor were they arrested. The United States once had a cool concept of “innocent until proven guilty”. If the players were convicted of a crime, this thread would be a hell of a lot shorter, because I don’t think most SLU fans would defend convicted offenders. 

They were not convicted of a criminal act....so connect the dots. 

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, Billiken Rich said:

No offense either but it was funny that I had just given up on the last hree quarters of your post when I read TheOne's reply......

As your great brain - no offense

[Clock_Tower]

4 hours ago, Tilkowsky said:

Yeah the SLU basketball players are the victims... 

 

... more worthless dribble from a biased blow hard. Still no word from you as to what the players did. 

Investigation=guilty=troll

[Billiken82]

3 hours ago, Tilkowsky said:

Yeah the SLU basketball players are the victims. That is laughable. Players who exhibit conduct unbecoming of a SLU Varsity basketball player.

You and billikenroy (who is worried about the rebuild and not the fact these players were extremely stupid) plus many other posters only care how it impacts the basketball team.

Somebody else said that Ms. Weathers has done this before. Yet provided no proof. Not surprising there was no proof just an allegation.

As far as Earlywine goes - a SLU poster defending a Mizzou coach. In my opinion the AD didn't owe Earlywine any explanation. The coaches serve at the pleasure of the AD. Similar to how the Attorney General and FBI Director serve at the pleasure of the President.

In the private sector that is how people are fired. So you condemn the acedemic laden Title IX process - yet when they do something similar to the private sector you complain about that.

Sorry folks you can't have it both ways.

 

There are two types of men in this world:  Those with balls, and guys like you!

[VeniceMenace]

58 minutes ago, Billiken82 said:

There are two types of men in this world:  Those with balls, and guys like you!

And there are no types of men on SLU's title 9 panel, a fact Tillousey conveniently ignores.

[billikens747]

 

[billikens747]

 

[almaman]

JG has now played 5 of the at least 13 games that were left decision was announced.

[billikenfan05]

50 minutes ago, billikens747 said:

 

I tried to understand this, I’m drunk can anyone give me the cliff notes 

[kmbilliken]

20 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

I tried to understand this, I’m drunk can anyone give me the cliff notes 

They only employ women in the Title IX world. Men don't understand yes means no.