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Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)


DoctorB

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I wonder if everyone pictured in Universitas actually consented to having their pictures taken.  I need to look back and see if I am in any photos.  If so, my shame at being a SLU grad now makes me revoke any type of actual or implied consent to have been in any University photographs. 

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Female voluntarily participates in an orgy that she knows is being filmed. Lies to the police about it. Intentionally destroys the reputations of 4 people with her lies. No punishment for her. Still in school and still a cheerleader. Takes no responsibility for her poor decisions. She and her parents must be real proud.

Is there any more screwed up places then colleges campuses  these days. What are we teaching our kids?

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16 minutes ago, slusam said:

Female voluntarily participates in an orgy that she knows is being filmed. Lies to the police about it. Intentionally destroys the reputations of 4 people with her lies. No punishment for her. Still in school and still a cheerleader. Takes no responsibility for her poor decisions. She and her parents must be real proud.

Is there any more screwed up places then colleges campuses  these days. What are we teaching our kids?

Do not agree with your synopsis.  Seems the gals did consent, but not to the filming.  But that was likely the decsion of one, not four.  So punish the one because it sounds like the other three, both guys and gals, consented to the other activity.  Fair is fair.

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1 minute ago, WVBilliken said:

Do not agree with your synopsis.  Seems the gals did consent, but not to the filming.  But that was likely the decsion of one, not four.  So punish the one because it sounds the other three, both guys and gals, consented to the other activity.  Fair is fair.

If you don't want to be filmed during an orgy take your mouth off of whatever it is on and tell them to stop filming. 

I've told people to not take my picture and you know what they did? They didn't take my picture....crazy right?

Guys, even one's who can arrange orgies, aren't mind readers.

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2 minutes ago, dlarry said:

If you don't want to be filmed during an orgy take your mouth off of whatever it is on and tell them to stop filming. 

I've told people to not take my picture and you know what they did? They didn't take my picture....crazy right?

Guys, even one's who can arrange orgies, aren't mind readers.

Men Aren’t Mind Readers would be a good sign 

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8 minutes ago, dlarry said:

If you don't want to be filmed during an orgy take your mouth off of whatever it is on and tell them to stop filming. 

I've told people to not take my picture and you know what they did? They didn't take my picture....crazy right?

Guys, even one's who can arrange orgies, aren't mind readers.

Or if you don't want what you are doing filmed stop doing it. 

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1 hour ago, slusam said:

Female voluntarily participates in an orgy that she knows is being filmed. Lies to the police about it. Intentionally destroys the reputations of 4 people with her lies. No punishment for her. Still in school and still a cheerleader. Takes no responsibility for her poor decisions. She and her parents must be real proud.

Is there any more screwed up places then colleges campuses  these days. What are we teaching our kids?

Very strong take. The product of a generation born on reality television and no consequences. 

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2 hours ago, WVBilliken said:

Do not agree with your synopsis.  Seems the gals did consent, but not to the filming.  But that was likely the decsion of one, not four.  So punish the one because it sounds like the other three, both guys and gals, consented to the other activity.  Fair is fair.

I wonder if the 3 of the 4 boys consented to the filming either.  If not, are these 3 non-filming not victims as well?  Again, my advice is for men:  file counter complaints.

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To Katherine Weathers, Anne Kratky, Michelle Lewis, Fred Pestello, Troy Turnipseed, and Whomever Else It May Concern:

Feminism is defined as "the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes." This noble movement was inspired by the courageous acts of Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony, and the countless suffragettes who stood up to the patriarchy and demanded that women be granted the right to vote in the name of equality. Espousing the same courage and bravery displayed by pioneers of the feminist movement, countless women have worked tirelessly over the past century to ensure that women are viewed as equal to their male counterparts in all aspects of life.

As leaders of a well-known Jesuit university, you are in a unique position to positively and constructively advance the feminist movement so that future generations of women can truly be viewed as equal to their male counterparts. Due to your cowardice and lack of integrity, you have failed to seize this opportunity by succumbing to a vocal minority of vengeful individuals hellbent on advancing a misguided political agenda.

You are fostering an egregious bastardization of the feminist movement. By turning a blind eye to truth, justice, and due process, you are ensuring that those women who have truly been aggrieved by a system that you so openly loath will continue to struggle to have their voices heard.

Three females meticulously orchestrated an orgy that would make the likes of Ron Jeremy and Bill Clinton blush. They used their sexuality to exploit the curiosity of innocent young men for physical gratification. When at least one of the women began to regret her decision, her family chose to exploit their socioeconomic advantages to protect their reputation at the expense of these innocent African-American men.

Today, we heard from one of the young women who organized this consensual sexual encounter. At no point did she assert that this encounter was anything but consensual. At no point did she refute the fact that this entire incident was instigated by her and her friends. Her only complaint is that embarrassing photos or videos were taken. The young woman was aware that these photos or videos were taken, and she apparently did not overtly object to the photos or videos being taken. Despite all this, this "survivor" of a regrettable and unfortunate decision continues to falsely accuse these young men of sexual assault.

Despite what you may believe, your mistreatment of these innocent young African-American men does not help advance the feminist cause. In fact, these punishments are in direct conflict with the idea that feminism is truly the "advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes." There is no equality in your decision. The women orchestrated this event. The women willingly participated in this event. The women knowingly allowed pictures or videos to be taken during the event. Yet, only the men were punished by your biased process. How does this promote equality of the sexes?

Alas, there is still time to remedy this decision and restore my faith in my alma mater. This is about doing what is right. This is about truth and justice. The futures of these innocent young men hang in the balance. As we learned in the gospel of John, "the truth shall set [them] free."

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I do have some concern for this young women. The adults in her life have given her some bad advice and she made some bad decisions. I am sure she is under a lot of pressure. Hopefully she is receiving some counseling and will fix the situation.

 

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1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

I wonder if the 3 of the 4 boys consented to the filming either.  If not, are these 3 non-filming not victims as well?  Again, my advice is for men:  file counter complaints.

I had the same thought. However, they probably are going into this as team and that would require them rolling on the camera man. At this point they may have no other choice,  but it would still be a lose for morale and the locker room.

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10 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

You have now proven how really stupid you are.  Obviously, you are not  a SLU student or former SLU student because SLU students simply are not that dumb.

First, no one said the boys, 2, 4 or 6 of them did not make bad decisions that night.  Should all bad decisions result in expulsions and 2 year suspensions?  And if so, who receives counseling and community service and for what, how are non-student athletes treated, how have similar students/athletes been treated both at SLU and at other colleges across the nation, why did SLU move the 3 players back on campus and reinstate certain privileges?  Did the Hearing Officer confirm the decisions of the outside counsel's investigative report?  What did the outside counsel, who are familiar with Title IX issues and precedent across the nation recommend?  Did all 3, 4 or 6 players participate equally? and if so, in what?

Second, what did the police report document?  and allege?  Sexual assault? or non-consensual posting of pictures/videos?  Did all participate in the filming and posting?  Did all the boys consent to the filming and posting?  It is now becoming quite clear that no sexual assault occurred -- see lack of criminal charges, lack of initial expulsions, lack of more serious suspensions.  I call you stupid because "due process" does NOT require 60 to 120 day investigations by any and all actions.  Physical violence, sexual assault, battery all are easy examples of conduct which would not require the police to wait, for SLU to wait or for a Title IX investigation to wait before "due process" is reached to levy immediate punishment.

No one wants to sweep anything under the rug.  I guess that is your "catch all" for the mantra of investigation = guilt and that if basketball players are not punished severely = sweep under the rug and "win at all cost"  No other possibilities exist in your world. Sad.

What have I done?  For one, I voted to change our President who is starting to implement fairness and balance into the Title IX "due process" of his predecessor.  At the same time, what other involvement would I have had to know what has been truly going on these past 8 years. And why is Kratky not immediately adopting the new Department of Education informal guidelines as express by Secretary Betsy DeVos?

As to discussion of what is the proper punishment for posting private pictures or videos?  I am not sure.  Guess I would need to see the pictures/videos, see now many there are, see what they depicted, see who they were sent to, see how long they went "public", find out why they went "public", etc.  But I would suggest to you that this is a completely different topic than committing sexual assault upon an unwilling female.  Is it still wrong?  of course.  Should there still be some punishments?  of course.  Again, let's see that the outside counsel recommended.  # release the memo

I'm saying if they chose to have group sex with consenting partners they didn't make a bad decision. Everyone's moral compass is different and if participating adults consent it isn't a bad decision. 

How do you realize the pics/video are being taken but not know? I realized the tree was falling on my head but didn't move because I didn't know. If you realize/know you're being filmed and you don't stop or say no when you are having consensual sex is the same as agreeing. Anyone who says it isn't is a complete fu.king moron.  If you willingly get in my car and everything is good and I drive away am I now guilty of kidnapping because you didn't verbally agree to go? 

Posting or sharing the video is a bad decision and probably a crime and any of the students who did that should be punished and I'd be ok with expelling them. You just don't do that

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The term “survivor” used in this statement makes me absolutely sick... “survivor”.... like this was an act that threatened the woman’s life.

In reality she was wholly or at least in part responsible for the organization of this group sex act.

The only thing she’s a “survivor” of is the embarrassment associated with her own false filing of a “sexual assault” that is proving to be an angled myth.

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7 hours ago, slusam said:

I do have some concern for this young women. The adults in her life have given her some bad advice and she made some bad decisions. I am sure she is under a lot of pressure. Hopefully she is receiving some counseling and will fix the situation.

 

she needs to be locked up

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I also can't help but think of Seinfeld with the last paragraph that the Post didn't even print.  "What happened that night is having and will have lasting effects on the young women".  

That's why Jerry didn't have the threesome in "The Switch".  He's not an orgy guy.  He have to dress different, he'd have to act different.  He'd have to grow a mustache and get all kinds of robes and lotions.  He'd have to get a new bedspread and get new friends.  

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7 hours ago, bgtholt88 said:

I had the same thought. However, they probably are going into this as team and that would require them rolling on the camera man. At this point they may have no other choice,  but it would still be a lose for morale and the locker room.

I would assume the photographer is the one expelled-- so this is the reason for the most severe punishment.  This whole consenting or non consenting to being video taped when you know you are being videotaped seems to me to be grasping at straws for a means to punish the young men involved.  The facts as posted here do not indicate a situation where a group of thugs raped innocent white girls.  By all accounts, the girls instigated or at least encouraged the sexual relationship.  One person is the apparent photographer and the others seem to be in similar positions of just being photographed.  The female's attorney is trying to market this whole thing as sexual assault, inferring that the men forcibly raped the girls and recorded the rape.  If the young men have video evidence of consensual acts, it seems the players can add defamation now in a civil suit, as well as launch a challenge to an apparent corrupt administrative procedure.  Title IX is under various levels of challenge and this case should be one that shows just how unjust the process can be, particularly against young men.  SLU has handled this mess in the typically incompetent SLU manner.  Honestly, if this whole thing comes down to a young woman consenting to sex but not objecting to be videotaped and then later objecting to the video tape, this whole thing has been a sham.  There appears to be clear discrimination here as the young white female has continued as a cheerleader while the young men were suspended and face punishment.  SLU should be congratulated for setting back basic equal racial rights to the 1950s era.

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