slufan13 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I would absolutely love to hear the other two women's comments on this situation. I would also love to hear an unfiltered Travis Ford. But since those things will never happen, can SLU just announce that they're upholding all suspensions/expulsion so that we can get on with the lawsuit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 So the “results” of the investigation are final? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Player comes up to Travis and says "we didn't do anything coach." What's the correct response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just now, RiseAndGrind said: So the “results” of the investigation are final? If they weren't final, this statement just pressured them into being final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 26 minutes ago, joe_davola said: Knowing but not verbally saying anything..get the hell outta here with that bull**** I read the article a few weeks ago about our fine Governor and the issue of photographing or filming without consent - it is legally a pretty big no-no in Missouri. But if she "realized" they were being filmed, why didn't she say anything then? Also, were there four cameramen? I find that difficult to believe. So why punish all so severely? And why didn't the other two females pursue this? The whole thing is strange and the punishment seems VERY excessive. God forbid there is ever a S3, but IF there is, could it NOT be a group thing like S1 and S2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, NashvilleBilliken said: What.The.Fu**. So, whole issue is not that she didn't know it was being filmed. It's not that she had sex without consent. It's not that she told them to stop filming. It's not that she tried to get away and stop something but couldn't. The is because she didn't specifically ask to be filmed. I mean, if the statement said "I told them no filming". Or, "I saw them filming and i tried to call the whole thing off", I could find myself getting on board with suspensions. But THIS?! She is a TOTAL who is begging for attention at a time when society is eating this stuff up. Edit: not sure why it removed the word, but after TOTAL should read s l u t I get that I'm a man and will never know how a woman feels, but how can it be the case that a woman: 1) Knows she is being filmed 2) Doesn't say anything about not wanting to be filmed or doesn't stop what she is doing until she isn't being filmed 3) Expects the man to be wholly responsible for knowing exactly how she feels. Just say something if you don't like the filming!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Wonder if Goodwins tweet was in reference to this statement coming 1 minute ago, kshoe said: I get that I'm a man and will never know how a woman feels, but how can it be the case that a woman: 1) Knows she is being filmed 2) Doesn't say anything about not wanting to be filmed or doesn't stop what she is doing until she isn't being filmed 3) Expects the man to be wholly responsible for knowing exactly how she feels. Just say something if you don't like the filming!!! This is like the Aziz story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 5 hours ago, Tilkowsky said: What I have said is that if the players had chosen another activity besides the one they chose there would be no investigation. I have never suggested SLU is under investigation. When you say SLU needs to decide if they want to be a Division I school that insinuates you want them to do what the other programs you mentioned do. Unfortunately somebody/someone in the group didn't think the sex was consensual. If the players had been dismissed right away as you suggest -where is due process in that? You would have complained they didn't get their day in court. Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty. Funny how so many put faith in Rosenblum, looks like that was misguided. Why I say people want SLU to just sweep this under the rug is they are calling for time served. The fans on this board only care about how this affects the basketball team. They don't care about the young women involved at all. I would imagine ALL colleges and universities are subject to Title IX. My question to you is before this situation happened at SLU did you protest Title IX? What have you done or other posters what have they done to try and change Title IX? Email Roy Blount or Claire McCaskill's office? I bet no one has done anything. Just like when this situation is over they won't do anything. My frustration is that there is no discussion about what poor choices the players made that night. All the blame is put on Pestello and Kratky. Pestello and Kratky are just doing their jobs. If you don't think they are doing their job correctly, when the job becomes open then you should apply for it. You have now proven how really stupid you are. Obviously, you are not a SLU student or former SLU student because SLU students simply are not that dumb. First, no one said the boys, 2, 4 or 6 of them did not make bad decisions that night. Should all bad decisions result in expulsions and 2 year suspensions? And if so, who receives counseling and community service and for what, how are non-student athletes treated, how have similar students/athletes been treated both at SLU and at other colleges across the nation, why did SLU move the 3 players back on campus and reinstate certain privileges? Did the Hearing Officer confirm the decisions of the outside counsel's investigative report? What did the outside counsel, who are familiar with Title IX issues and precedent across the nation recommend? Did all 3, 4 or 6 players participate equally? and if so, in what? Second, what did the police report document? and allege? Sexual assault? or non-consensual posting of pictures/videos? Did all participate in the filming and posting? Did all the boys consent to the filming and posting? It is now becoming quite clear that no sexual assault occurred -- see lack of criminal charges, lack of initial expulsions, lack of more serious suspensions. I call you stupid because "due process" does NOT require 60 to 120 day investigations by any and all actions. Physical violence, sexual assault, battery all are easy examples of conduct which would not require the police to wait, for SLU to wait or for a Title IX investigation to wait before "due process" is reached to levy immediate punishment. No one wants to sweep anything under the rug. I guess that is your "catch all" for the mantra of investigation = guilt and that if basketball players are not punished severely = sweep under the rug and "win at all cost" No other possibilities exist in your world. Sad. What have I done? For one, I voted to change our President who is starting to implement fairness and balance into the Title IX "due process" of his predecessor. At the same time, what other involvement would I have had to know what has been truly going on these past 8 years. And why is Kratky not immediately adopting the new Department of Education informal guidelines as express by Secretary Betsy DeVos? As to discussion of what is the proper punishment for posting private pictures or videos? I am not sure. Guess I would need to see the pictures/videos, see now many there are, see what they depicted, see who they were sent to, see how long they went "public", find out why they went "public", etc. But I would suggest to you that this is a completely different topic than committing sexual assault upon an unwilling female. Is it still wrong? of course. Should there still be some punishments? of course. Again, let's see that the outside counsel recommended. # release the memo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 minute ago, slufan13 said: If they weren't final, this statement just pressured them into being final. The fix is in and SLU arranged to have Katherine Wessling make this statement to help them presell what is going to come down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, ACE said: I read the article a few weeks ago about our fine Governor and the issue of photographing or filming without consent - it is legally a pretty big no-no in Missouri. But if she "realized" they were being filmed, why didn't she say anything then? Also, were there four cameramen? I find that difficult to believe. So why punish all so severely? And why didn't the other two females pursue this? The whole thing is strange and the punishment seems VERY excessive. God forbid there is ever a S3, but IF there is, could it NOT be a group thing like S1 and S2? It is a no no if you have a reasonable expectation of privacy. That was the case with the woman and Greitens. When there are six other people in the room and cameras are rolling, no reasonable expectation of privacy exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon-Balls Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Let me get this straight, she admits that she "realized" there was film/pictures actively being taken, but apparently had "no way to stop what was happening." Are you kidding me? I find it extremely hard to believe that she was powerless to do anything if she had quickly noticed that there were pictures being taken by one player. If all 4 were doing it, then it's even HARDER to believe. How could someone not stop what they're doing and say, "no, we're not filming this"? Likely because they didn't care in the moment and we're having too much fun. This seems like a case of everyone was having a jolly good time, players started filming, girls didn't care in the moment... After it's all done people started to sober up, they then realized "oh shite" and regretted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kenneth Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, LindellWest said: Every time I think I cant be any more ashamed of SLU and Pestello, they go and up the ante. Do you think they are all sitting around a table trying to think of what to do next and someone raises their hand and issues the famous adage..."Hey, I have an idea. Someone hold my beer and watch this!!" dlarry likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 32 minutes ago, TRN said: The statement uses “survivor”, “victim”, and “sexual assault” in one paragraph then only goes on to talk about filming of the girl’s group sex. It’s very misleading and contradicts the rest of the statement. ”It was difficult, in the beginning, to expect that the victims would get a fair hearing when the basketball program is so important to the University.” Spit out my drink. Must’ve taken a real genius to whip that line up. Release the findings of the outside investigation and put me out of my misery already. You go to the hospital at 2:30am because someone pulled out a camera phone? You were sexually assaulted, but only care that these guys can’t play basketball, or remain in school, vs. suffering any criminal charges that may keep them away from women in the future? What is happening LindellWest likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just now, majerus mojo said: ”It was difficult, in the beginning, to expect that the victims would get a fair hearing when the basketball program is so important to the University.” Spit out my drink. Must’ve taken a real genius to whip that line up. Release the findings of the outside investigation and put me out of my misery already. You go to the hospital at 2:30am because someone pulled out a camera phone? You were sexually assaulted, but only care that these guys can’t play basketball, or remain in school, vs. suffering any criminal charges that may keep them away from women in the future? What is happening This is a great point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Administrators at SLU, please stop reading this board and trying to react to what board members are doing. You are making it worse for yourselves and the 200 year old institution you work for. Spend the time doing your job in a fair and just way instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindellWest Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, brianstl said: The fix is in and SLU arranged to have Katherine Wessling make this statement to help them presell what is going to come down. SLU has been working backward from a conclusion from the very beginning and it is shameful. That's why they are so mad a people who keep digging, that's why they are mad at the message board, that's why they delete social media posts, etc. freaking sham. Box and Won likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon-Balls Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 When all is said and done, whatever the outcome might be, I cannot wait for this story to get picked up by the mainstream media (just like the Aziz situation). SLU is going to get crucified for their handling of all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I would like to see the initial police report to see the claims made by the alleged victims. That would tell us a lot about their credibility. Did they ever make a claim of assault or was it always I was filmed with my knowledge, but without my consent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just now, Spoon-Balls said: When all is said and done, whatever the outcome might be, I cannot wait for this story to get picked up by the mainstream media (just like the Aziz situation). SLU is going to get crucified for their handling of all this. I want this to happen but I just don't think it will. It's not a good look right now to criticize a school for mishandling a sexual assault case in this direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 19 minutes ago, kshoe said: I get that I'm a man and will never know how a woman feels, but how can it be the case that a woman: 1) Knows she is being filmed 2) Doesn't say anything about not wanting to be filmed or doesn't stop what she is doing until she isn't being filmed 3) Expects the man to be wholly responsible for knowing exactly how she feels. Just say something if you don't like the filming!!! Better yet pull up your knickers and say as you're walking out the door, "you guys are effed! I'm going to the cops!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I am surprised that the statement doesn't do more to leave us saying oh sh*t. It essentially boils down to defining consent in the context of being filmed/photographed and it doesn't go beyond essentially arguing between explicit and implicit consent or in actuality the definition of agreed to. Initially I got a little bothered by paragraph 3 ("They do not feel that they did anything wrong because they felt completely entitled to do what they did"), but if I moved that below the next paragraph laying out their legal argument in defining consent in the context of being recorded/photographed, I am fine with the statement overall and think it is fair. It certainly doesn't lead us to believe something happened beyond what we have heard too which I was not expecting when I saw the statement had been released, no smoking gun so to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon-Balls Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, slufan13 said: I want this to happen but I just don't think it will. It's not a good look right now to criticize a school for mishandling a sexual assault case in this direction. I don't think it will happen anytime soon, but if reports are eventually released and it ends up being like people have said (a situation akin to the Aziz Ansari case where he was guilty of not reading the woman's thoughts), then it would look pretty bad for SLU, especially if they end up losing a big lawsuit by the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Since from the post above about Invasion of Privacy states it's a class A felony, why didn't the cops go and arrest these guys that morning and seize their cellphones? I can see why Rosenblum said a case of buyer's remorse. It suddenly dawned on them after they sobered up a bit that their was photographic evidence out there that might be shown around campus. Find it hard to believe they didn't agree to the pic taking at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryB Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 It is very apparent from her statement that she never requested the videoing to be stopped - had she done so the evidence of that would have been on the video. Clearly the police would have noticed that. Sickening that the "victim" gets to establish the facts irrespective of the video evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just now, HenryB said: It is very apparent from her statement that she never requested the videoing to be stopped - had she done so the evidence of that would have been on the video. Clearly the police would have noticed that. Sickening that the "victim" gets to establish the facts irrespective of the video evidence. I think there is a reason the police haven’t moved on this since day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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