Facts, Speculation and Impact?

[bauman]

Facts:

---In an interesting bit of timing, I received a fund-raising request from SLU on Thursday, this week.  I assume many alums received the same request.  I returned the postage paid card with an explanation of why I would not give now or in the future.

---Taking the statements of Rosenblum as "fact" is fools folly.  He is positioning his clients case for a lawsuit which will benefit him .  He is stating the "facts" as he views them and obviously in the manner most favorable to his clients.

---We don't even KNOW which of the four players were represented by Rosenblum.   A reasonable GUESS would seem to indicate Graves, AD and Bishop since they all reacted to the charge in an identical fashion and were treated the same by SLU.  If JG was a Rosenblum (R) client then he did not follow "R" 's advice and played, whereas the other two "R" clients were treated and reacted the same.  As of today, we do not KNOW which players got suspensions and which one was expelled and we do not KNOW which of the four "R" did not represent.  I expect that we will know much of this in the next few days, but not as of this morning.

---We know that the school gave up control of the investigation and allowed it to drag on.  How?  By not giving specific guidance to the hired guns doing the investigation and preparing the report.  SLU owned the matter and therefore failed when it did not instruct the "hired gun" as to a specific timeframe in which the report was due.

---We know that the failure to issue a decision NLT the semester break period, inflicted additional, and unnecessary punishment on the players, the team and the fanbase.

---We know that the main Billiken.com thread has now reached 224 pages and is filled with guesses, opinions and statements with out any verifiable support.  I realize this is a message board and is therefore the place where posters can state their opinions, but unfortunately, most of the 224 pages contain posts, which are pure hearsay and based on facts NOT in evidence.  That is ok due to the nature of message boards but we need to drop back 10 yards and realize that no one KNEW the real facts.  Hell, we didn't even, and still don't, even know which 3 were represented by "R".

---We know that our local news media have done little to nothing in the way of an investigation.  All Post-Dispatch "facts" are based on "R"s statement.  Heck, CH 4 did not even mention the issue in its 5, 6 or 10 news reports yesterday.  Sports Director FC of CH 5, who we rely on for the most inclusive reporting on SLU basketball, chose to avoid the issue by not filing a report, himself. 

 

Speculation:

---All of the females involved were white

---One of the females involved has a rich daddy who is a donor to SLU

---The picture in DC with the airplane was an intentional act on the part of SLU to signal that all was going to turn out well for the players

---The initial report of 4 players was incorrect in that there were only 3 being investigated

---Graves is the one being expelled and JG is the one receiving the lesser suspension.  Again, this might be correct, but we don't know that as of this morning.

---The one being expelled is the one who took the pictures/video

---One of the four was just walking into the room as the girls were leaving

---Every post that claimed to have factual information based on "knowing a guy" or "I heard"

---The status of the police investigation and reasons for that status

---etc. etc. etc.

 

Impact:

One impact concern is how the suspensions affect available scholarships.  This might turn out to be a non-issue if the suspended players leave SLU, but what if they don't? What if, for example, AD is on pace to graduate in 4 1/2 school years (Dec 2018) if he stays at SLU to get his degree.   It would seem that a suspension would continue to count against the 13 scholarship limit, but I don't really know that to be a fact.  Clearly the player expelled opens up a scholarship as will any departure by a suspended player.  The problem is how will Ford and staff be able to fill any of these open scholarships?  And it can be worse---see below.

Question:

Does anyone know how to communicate to the Board of Trustees?  Obviously, writing Pestello at his office is an act of futility! 

 

What is Clear from the Main Thread:

We (or 90% of us) are so upset about this that we are looking at giving up our fandom of Billiken basketball and even the school itself.  I can envision this becoming really ugly, if players other than the "four" leave and/or we lose recruits.  I don't know how TF could refuse to release the 3 incoming recruits, especially if current players jump ship.  Assuming they are on pace to graduate this May, Bess and Foreman could depart as graduate transfers and go elsewhere and play immediately.  JJ and HF have demonstrated their abilities and I'm sure would have many suitors.  I don't want to be "chicken-little", but I also don't want to live in a dreamworld.  Worst case scenario, this is the death knell for SLU basketball.  If a fair number of current players leave, I can see season tickets falling off a cliff next year, along with contributions to the Athletic Department. 

What I feel bad about is the impact on our team this year and the players who were smart enough to realize that high-profile scholarship players are held to a higher standard than other students.  The current team deserves our support as does TF and his staff.  I would hate to see the remaining games drawing crowds of 2-3000.

JMHOs

 

 

[billikenfan05]

2 minutes ago, bauman said:

Facts:

---In an interesting bit of timing, I received a fund-raising request from SLU on Thursday, this week.  I assume many alums received the same request.  I returned the postage paid card with an explanation of why I would not give now or in the future.

---Taking the statements of Rosenblum as "fact" is fools folly.  He is positioning his clients case for a lawsuit which will benefit him .  He is stating the "facts" as he views them and obviously in the manner most favorable to his clients.

---We don't even KNOW which of the four players were represented by Rosenblum.   A reasonable GUESS would seem to indicate Graves, AD and Bishop since they all reacted to the charge in an identical fashion and were treated the same by SLU.  If JG was a Rosenblum (R) client then he did not follow "R" 's advice and played, whereas the other two "R" clients were treated and reacted the same.  As of today, we do not KNOW which players got suspensions and which one was expelled and we do not KNOW which of the four "R" did not represent.  I expect that we will know much of this in the next few days, but not as of this morning.

---We know that the school gave up control of the investigation and allowed it to drag on.  How?  By not giving specific guidance to the hired guns doing the investigation and preparing the report.  SLU owned the matter and therefore failed when it did not instruct the "hired gun" as to a specific timeframe in which the report was due.

---We know that the failure to issue a decision NLT the semester break period, inflicted additional, and unnecessary punishment on the players, the team and the fanbase.

---We know that the main Billiken.com thread has now reached 224 pages and is filled with guesses, opinions and statements with out any verifiable support.  I realize this is a message board and is therefore the place where posters can state their opinions, but unfortunately, most of the 224 pages contain posts, which are pure hearsay and based on facts NOT in evidence.  That is ok due to the nature of message boards but we need to drop back 10 yards and realize that no one KNEW the real facts.  Hell, we didn't even, and still don't, even know which 3 were represented by "R".

---We know that our local news media have done little to nothing in the way of an investigation.  All Post-Dispatch "facts" are based on "R"s statement.  Heck, CH 4 did not even mention the issue in its 5, 6 or 10 news reports yesterday.  Sports Director FC of CH 5, who we rely on for the most inclusive reporting on SLU basketball, chose to avoid the issue by not filing a report, himself. 

 

Speculation:

---All of the females involved were white

---One of the females involved has a rich daddy who is a donor to SLU

---The picture in DC with the airplane was an intentional act on the part of SLU to signal that all was going to turn out well for the players

---The initial report of 4 players was incorrect in that there were only 3 being investigated

---Graves is the one being expelled and JG is the one receiving the lesser suspension.  Again, this might be correct, but we don't know that as of this morning.

---The one being expelled is the one who took the pictures/video

---One of the four was just walking into the room as the girls were leaving

---Every post that claimed to have factual information based on "knowing a guy" or "I heard"

---The status of the police investigation and reasons for that status

---etc. etc. etc.

 

Impact:

One impact concern is how the suspensions affect available scholarships.  This might turn out to be a non-issue if the suspended players leave SLU, but what if they don't? What if, for example, AD is on pace to graduate in 4 1/2 school years (Dec 2018) if he stays at SLU to get his degree.   It would seem that a suspension would continue to count against the 13 scholarship limit, but I don't really know that to be a fact.  Clearly the player expelled opens up a scholarship as will any departure by a suspended player.  The problem is how will Ford and staff be able to fill any of these open scholarships?  And it can be worse---see below.

Question:

Does anyone know how to communicate to the Board of Trustees?  Obviously, writing Pestello at his office is an act of futility! 

 

What is Clear from the Main Thread:

We (or 90% of us) are so upset about this that we are looking at giving up our fandom of Billiken basketball and even the school itself.  I can envision this becoming really ugly, if players other than the "four" leave and/or we lose recruits.  I don't know how TF could refuse to release the 3 incoming recruits, especially if current players jump ship.  Assuming they are on pace to graduate this May, Bess and Foreman could depart as graduate transfers and go elsewhere and play immediately.  JJ and HF have demonstrated their abilities and I'm sure would have many suitors.  I don't want to be "chicken-little", but I also don't want to live in a dreamworld.  Worst case scenario, this is the death knell for SLU basketball.  If a fair number of current players leave, I can see season tickets falling off a cliff next year, along with contributions to the Athletic Department. 

What I feel bad about is the impact on our team this year and the players who were smart enough to realize that high-profile scholarship players are held to a higher standard than other students.  The current team deserves our support as does TF and his staff.  I would hate to see the remaining games drawing crowds of 2-3000.

JMHOs

 

 

You lost me when you speculated in your facts section 

[HenryB]

2,000 - 3,000 is optimistic 

[Spoon-Balls]

8 minutes ago, bauman said:

Question:

Does anyone know how to communicate to the Board of Trustees?  Obviously, writing Pestello at his office is an act of futility! 

 

 

To me this is the saddest, most irritating thing about SLU. That most people don't even know who the trustees are, and that the trustees never have a dialogue with students/alumni. 

[Billiken82]

1 minute ago, Spoon-Balls said:

 

To me this is the saddest, most irritating thing about SLU. That most people don't even know who the trustees are, and that the trustees never have a dialogue with students/alumni. 

http://www.slu.edu/about/leadership/board-of-trustees.php

[gravilst]

3 minutes ago, Spoon-Balls said:

 

To me this is the saddest, most irritating thing about SLU. That most people don't even know who the trustees are, and that the trustees never have a dialogue with students/alumni. 

https://www.slu.edu/about/leadership/board-of-trustees.php

[gravilst]

While it doesn't give their emails or any contact info, it's not hard to Google names and attain that.    Someone should work on comprising a contact list for all the board members.   Which brings up a question I have, is it normal for the board of a university to have so many members?

[slufan13]

I said it weeks ago but the board of trustees is a big part of the problem at SLU.

[majerus mojo]

Could care less if the remaining players transfer or the incoming kids decommit. Why on earth would anyone want to come here? Good for them if they leave. Will personally make it easier to take a year or two off from this garbage 

[AnkielBreakers]

1

[DeSmetBilliken]

16 minutes ago, bauman said:

 

Speculation:

---One of the females involved has a rich daddy who is a donor to SLU

 

I just want to focus on this, because if true, and if this had an effect on the proceedings, this is what maybe infuriates me the most. Outside of the mention on this board, who had heard this?

[JMM28]

30 minutes ago, bauman said:

If JG was a Rosenblum (R) client then he did not follow "R" 's advice and played, whereas the other two "R" clients were treated and reacted the same

Rosenblums statement yesterday indicated that it was a suspension from the school. I take that to mean it wasn’t some sort of ploy from Rosenblum. 

[TRN]

It all doesn’t matter anymore.  SLU agave itself the death penalty yesterday.  The school is run by a collective of idiots.  I’m going to laugh as donations go dry and they operate in the red forever.  

It’s time for folks to find a new passion to root for.  We might as well let Harris Stowe play games at Chaifetz, they’ll be better than SLU.  Good luck to SLU on ever recruiting minorities for athletics again.

[billiken_roy]

37 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

Rosenblums statement yesterday indicated that it was a suspension from the school. I take that to mean it wasn’t some sort of ploy from Rosenblum. 

suspension.    yes, what does that exactly mean.    if from school then the scholarship is no longer in place as well?   if just from the basketball program, does that mean for the next 2 years the basketball program has to function with only 10 instead of 13 players while the suspensions run their course?   what a f'ing trainwreck.   our administration and board of trustees are oblivious to the basketball program and we might as well become a D3 program.   absolutely no signs of support.    they should be the ones expelled.  

[Sheltiedave]

Fact: as a Title IX federally mandated investigation, the final report is considered a federal document. This means that anyone who formally filed a FOIA and pays the appropriate fee will receive a redacted copy, with all the charges, enumerated evidence, analysis, findings, and recommended actions.

the redaction will expunge all names, addresses, phone numbers, and other details that could reveal identities, but the report will have all the facts used to rule on the case.

Keep in mind that the distribution of the video and/or photos of the tryst without express permission from all three ladies in question is either a Level A misdemeanor, or a Class D felony, in Missouriat the prosecutor’s discretion. Criminal punishment includes up to a one year prison term.

I very much look forward to reading the charges and findings sections of the FOIA report, and then comparing the resulting punishments to comparable events at other universities.

i find it amazing that the President and Board of Directors would not proactively discuss their expectations of projected punishments with the Title IX director on an annual basis. This oversight led to this situation where a managerial underling is negatively dictating how to operate a multimillion dollar sports program, an $85 million facility, and impugning the university’s relationship with a top five donor.

[Quality Is Job 1]

13 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Fact: as a Title IX federally mandated investigation, the final report is considered a federal document. This means that anyone who formally filed a FOIA and pays the appropriate fee will receive a redacted copy, with all the charges, enumerated evidence, analysis, findings, and recommended actions.

the redaction will expunge all names, addresses, phone numbers, and other details that could reveal identities, but the report will have all the facts used to rule on the case.

Keep in mind that the distribution of the video and/or photos of the tryst without express permission from all three ladies in question is either a Level A misdemeanor, or a Class D felony, in Missouriat the prosecutor’s discretion. Criminal punishment includes up to a one year prison term.

I very much look forward to reading the charges and findings sections of the FOIA report, and then comparing the resulting punishments to comparable events at other universities.

i find it amazing that the President and Board of Directors would not proactively discuss their expectations of projected punishments with the Title IX director on an annual basis. This oversight led to this situation where a managerial underling is negatively dictating how to operate a multimillion dollar sports program, an $85 million facility, and impugning the university’s relationship with a top five donor.

Good to hear from you, Sheltiedave!  Been a looooong time!  Wish the circumstances were better.

[JMM28]

Holy cow a @Sheltiedave post. Good to see you. And good post!

[Quality Is Job 1]

Bauman and others,

I believe that the suspension means from the school.  Once the suspensions are in force, the athletes will be dropped from their classes and won't be able to receive credit.  They will not be enrolled.  They can't graduate.  The suspension is not just from the basketball program.

[moytoy12]

1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

Fact: as a Title IX federally mandated investigation, the final report is considered a federal document. This means that anyone who formally filed a FOIA and pays the appropriate fee will receive a redacted copy, with all the charges, enumerated evidence, analysis, findings, and recommended actions.

You sure about this? SLU hired a private entity to do the investigation and provide a report. Would the investigator's report be subject to FOIA in that circumstance? Or are you speaking about the SLU Title IX Office's final report? 

 

[bauman]

1 hour ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Bauman and others,

I believe that the suspension means from the school.  Once the suspensions are in force, the athletes will be dropped from their classes and won't be able to receive credit.  They will not be enrolled.  They can't graduate.  The suspension is not just from the basketball program.

That makes a lot of sense and, if correct, it makes the delay of the decision until after the 2nd semester had started and the players could no longer enroll somewhere else, even more punitive and inexcusable!

[bauman]

4 hours ago, gravilst said:

https://www.slu.edu/about/leadership/board-of-trustees.php

What a joke.  44 members of a Board.  There is no way a group this size can manage anything.  It's not a functioning Board, it's a convention.  Only 23 votes required to remove Pestello