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Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)


DoctorB

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38 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

Let me get this straight, Cowboy:  you are just now, this morning, taking this debacle seriously??  That actually caused me to laugh...

Evidently, Cowboy is not alone on his miscalculation -- many commenters on here have been dismissing "Situation II: The Sequel" as somehow over and done with, etc.

Don't dismiss it, folks.  That would be a very grave misunderstanding of the campus climate these days, regarding any sort of sexual harrassment, abuse, assault, etc... & by no means am I implying guilt on anyone's part, any player would be innocent until proven guilty as far as the criminal law goes.  But the on campus code of conduct is much more relevant, in this case--and much more relevant to the basketball season ahead (unless criminal charges end up being filed,, that is).  Again, check back to what happened in Situation I...

I'm pretty sure one of these days -- maybe next spring -- the Riverfront Times will get ahold of the police report, for all the dreary world to see... then everyone can get a view of the actual circumstances, and the Sturm und Drang can escalate.  But till then, watch and wait.

This is all nice and thought out, but I believe Cowboy's comment stemmed from the fact that the headline contained a typo. 

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This may not be a consideration for the school, but the 4 accused should be counseled on whether to play in any games prior to a decision coming down. If they play in the first few games then get suspended or expelled aren't they using a year of eligibility? It doesn't seem worth the risk.

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13 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If the police doesn't file charges and the conduct board pulls the kangaroo court stuff again, SLU will get sued this time around.  The kids have a real lawyer.

With the outside counsel handling the Title IX process I wouldn’t be surprised if conduct board never sees the case.  They are paying them to protect them from getting sued by either side.  That law firm is going to decide SLU’s response and not some conduct board.

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3 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

If the police doesn't file charges and the conduct board pulls the kangaroo court stuff again, SLU will get sued this time around.  The kids have a real lawyer.

The problem is there may not be charges brought on the sex part of it but where the problem comes is with the video and the snapchat sharing. While the girls may have been aware of the video being made by their actions they were probably not ok with sharing the part.  If that is so, then a crime was committed and apparently it is considered some form of sexual assault.  The key here is the sharing and what the girls knew. I agree if no charges filed then I think the school would best be ready for a fight. 

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54 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

The problem is there may not be charges brought on the sex part of it but where the problem comes is with the video and the snapchat sharing. While the girls may have been aware of the video being made by their actions they were probably not ok with sharing the part.

Even if the sharing of the video was nonconsensual it's not against the law in Missouri.  In states that do have so-called "revenge porn" laws, it's a misdemeanor and treated as a form of harassment.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/revenge-porn-laws-by-state.html

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5 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

If the police doesn't file charges and the conduct board pulls the kangaroo court stuff again, SLU will get sued this time around.  The kids have a real lawyer.

3 Star, the police does not file charges, they do the investigation under the direction of the judicial which then decides whether or not to file charges. The police investigation may be finished before the decision is reached by the judicial.

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8 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Even if the sharing of the video was nonconsensual it's not against the law in Missouri.  In states that do have so-called "revenge porn" laws, it's a misdemeanor and treated as a form of harassment.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/revenge-porn-laws-by-state.html

I am not sure you said anything different then I said.  I only pointed out that they could be cleared of the sex act part but still be guilty of some crime. Misdemeanors are stil a broken law.  I never said or implied that they would go to jail.   The problem is they could be guilty of the sharing and that may be enough to create a problem for them with SLU.  If the DA says no to everything then I agree that the school better be prepared for a lawsuit challenge if they still move forward. 

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4 minutes ago, Old guy said:

3 Star, the police does not file charges, they do the investigation under the direction of the judicial which then decides whether or not to file charges. The police investigation may be finished before the decision is reached by the judicial.

I would think the judicial arm would wait for the police to finish before deciding anything 

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24 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I am not sure you said anything different then I said.  I only pointed out that they could be cleared of the sex act part but still be guilty of some crime. Misdemeanors are stil a broken law.  I never said or implied that they would go to jail.   The problem is they could be guilty of the sharing and that may be enough to create a problem for them with SLU.  If the DA says no to everything then I agree that the school better be prepared for a lawsuit challenge if they still move forward. 

What is the basis of the lawsuit? If they broke a school rule regarding student conduct, went through the school disciplinary process in which all the rules of the process were followed, were found to have violated a school code of conduct and the appropriate discipline was determined to be expulsion, what would be the basis of the lawsuit?

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11 minutes ago, kmbilliken said:

What is the basis of the lawsuit? If they broke a school rule regarding student conduct, went through the school disciplinary process in which all the rules of the process were followed, were found to have violated a school code of conduct and the appropriate discipline was determined to be expulsion, what would be the basis of the lawsuit?

Because violating the school code of conduct doesn't normally lead to expulsion. The young women made a false rape accusation and one of they young men shared the video privately on a social media platform. This is yet another example of young people acting stupidly but not doing any long term harm.  At some point the adults in charge of dealing with young people have to use common sense.

 

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1 hour ago, kmbilliken said:

What is the basis of the lawsuit? If they broke a school rule regarding student conduct, went through the school disciplinary process in which all the rules of the process were followed, were found to have violated a school code of conduct and the appropriate discipline was determined to be expulsion, what would be the basis of the lawsuit?

Have the codes been applied in every case.  I would be surprised if that is the situation.  No charges rendered by authorities so how do you know a code was actually broken.  Take your pick. Any of these is a basis for one.  Does not mean you will win but worth a shot   Look what is going on with Elliot in Dallas. 

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1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

Because violating the school code of conduct doesn't normally lead to expulsion. The young women made a false rape accusation and one of they young men shared the video privately on a social media platform. This is yet another example of young people acting stupidly but not doing any long term harm.  At some point the adults in charge of dealing with young people have to use common sense.

 

Allegedly?

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1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

Have the codes been applied in every case.  I would be surprised if that is the situation.  No charges rendered by authorities so how do you know a code was actually broken.  Take your pick. Any of these is a basis for one.  Does not mean you will win but worth a shot   Look what is going on with Elliot in Dallas. 

I have no idea what happened, but from the reports on this board it sounds like group sex was videod in on campus housing. I bet that breaks a rule. I also doubt there is a comparable case. If that is what happened, if the school follows the rules they can impose whatever punishment is allowed under the rules without fear of having the decision overturned in court. Also, if that is what happened, do you think the school will want to give light punishment and set that as the precedent for punishment for making sex videos on campus? The only problem I would see is if they don't give the same punishment to the females involved if they engaged in the same conduct as the males.

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2 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Because violating the school code of conduct doesn't normally lead to expulsion. The young women made a false rape accusation and one of they young men shared the video privately on a social media platform. This is yet another example of young people acting stupidly but not doing any long term harm.  At some point the adults in charge of dealing with young people have to use common sense.

 

Expelling students for making videos of group sex in campus housing doesn't violate my idea of common sense. The only problem I would see is if they don't give all parties comparable punishment.

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3 hours ago, cheeseman said:

I would think the judicial arm would wait for the police to finish before deciding anything 

Of course the judicial arm waits for the police investigation to finish before deciding whether or not to charge anything, that is what I said. 

The rest of this discussion above can be summarized by saying that all the issues talked about in the last few posts are an important inducement (as it was in fact the case) to farm out the title IX investigation to a law firm. We will see how this plays in the end.                            

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1 hour ago, kmbilliken said:

I have no idea what happened, but from the reports on this board it sounds like group sex was videod in on campus housing. I bet that breaks a rule. I also doubt there is a comparable case. If that is what happened, if the school follows the rules they can impose whatever punishment is allowed under the rules without fear of having the decision overturned in court. Also, if that is what happened, do you think the school will want to give light punishment and set that as the precedent for punishment for making sex videos on campus? The only problem I would see is if they don't give the same punishment to the females involved if they engaged in the same conduct as the males.

Because of a false sexual assault allegation this is now going through the Title IX process which changes what the school can do and being a non public institution doesn’t protect SLU if they try to enforce their own rules.  

On Monday Pomona College, a private institution, lost a lawsuit where they tried to suspend a male student for two semesters for what the school considered sexual misconduct.

 

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I'm just glad I'm not in college anymore.  

I guess I'd be considered a prude because I think having an orgy and filming it is crazy.

It blows my mind that today's college kids seem to find this normal. 

I'm not going to pretend to know what happened or if the players are innocent or not, but I do know that consensual or not, this type of behavior  was not normal 15 years ago.

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6 hours ago, dlarry said:

I'm just glad I'm not in college anymore.  

I guess I'd be considered a prude because I think having an orgy and filming it is crazy.

It blows my mind that today's college kids seem to find this normal. 

I'm not going to pretend to know what happened or if the players are innocent or not, but I do know that consensual or not, this type of behavior  was not normal 15 years ago.

Since you are a self labeled prude you just weren't ever invited to the party. Seriously swinging has been around a long time and not just on college campuses  

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13 hours ago, kmbilliken said:

Expelling students for making videos of group sex in campus housing doesn't violate my idea of common sense. The only problem I would see is if they don't give all parties comparable punishment.

The girls committed a crime according to the Missouri law (making a false rape accusation), the one boy did not (sharing the video on social media).  If we're talking about enforcing the law, the girls should be expelled before the boys.  Give them all community service and call it a day.  This case has been a waste of everyone's time.

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8 hours ago, dlarry said:

I'm just glad I'm not in college anymore.  

I guess I'd be considered a prude because I think having an orgy and filming it is crazy.

It blows my mind that today's college kids seem to find this normal. 

I'm not going to pretend to know what happened or if the players are innocent or not, but I do know that consensual or not, this type of behavior  was not normal 15 years ago.

Fifteen years ago the Internet as we know it didn't exist.  Kids will be doing even stupider things 15 years from now because they will have the technology to do so.  At this pace, we may reach Idiocracy in our lifetime.

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