TheChosenOne Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Old guy said: Sulfan, I do not think the Judicial or the University will be able to reach a decision as to how this case will be handled in time to give the players the options that were presented to Kwamin and Willie, not for this season anyways. Anyone know what the timeline was for that one (like when the event happened to when the punishment was announced which I believe was right before the start of practice)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, Old guy said: Sulfan, I do not think the Judicial or the University will be able to reach a decision as to how this case will be handled in time to give the players the options that were presented to Kwamin and Willie, not for this season anyways. If this is indeed true on the timing issue, and likely it is, then the question may be, what will Coach Ford do on behalf of "Team Rules"? Practice starts this weekend, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 1 minute ago, brianstl said: I would lawyer up and make a stand. Their reputations are at stake here. Their ability to get jobs and their potential lifetime earnings are on the line. Yeah. If I knew these kids or their families, this is what I would strongly recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 1 minute ago, HoosierPal said: If this is indeed true on the timing issue, and likely it is, then the question may be, what will Coach Ford do? Practice starts this weekend, right? Possibly keep an eye on the official SLU athletics website...if they start scrubbing, we'll know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJumpUp Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 15 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said: The sticking point is that the University's definition of consent is rather aggressive in that an intoxicated girl cannot give consent. One of the determining factors of intoxication is coordination. If there is a question of intoxication, for any of the parties involved, a video existing of the incident should help determine intoxication, based on their coordination level in that video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 20 minutes ago, Old guy said: This thread has taken a very wrong turn propelled by raw speculation. This is totally and completely ridiculous, this board is conducting its own Kangaroo trial about what happened. The problem is basically that no one in this board is qualified to judge this case as far as the judicial system or the University system go. This is in so many words raw opinion passing as fact. The net effect of what is being done is adding complexity to the case by leaps and bounds, insuring a lengthier evaluation and decision process. And making the possible outcomes worse and more encompassing. So, OK let's say that there was a tape, and let's say the girls stick with their claim (they cannot back out at this time after getting the police involved), so now what, all that has been done is to make the case a lot more complex. Now, it is not only the players that are in trouble of disciplining or conviction of something or the other, the girls get to the firing line as well. Very nicely done, stupidity begets stupidity as is usually the case. So, the lawyers get into the scene interpreting the evidence gathered in ways that will benefit their clients the most and help their case the most. Let's add some obvious potential complications, let's say views of this tape may be had for pay via the net. Who put it there, who is making money out of it, how are the students or the girls involved in this? Now the problem becomes bigger for both the Judicial and the University. There are new charges that can be added to it, new legal issues arise. To make things worse, let's just pretend that one of the girls is not 18 years old yet, as may well be the case (I am sure nobody carded the girls other than the bar which may be in a world of trouble if one of them happens to have used a funny ID). OOOOHH, the case just got bigger and more complicated. The number of charges that can be used just grew even more. The bigger this case gets the absolutely less likelihood there is for a happy outcome for all involved. All involved can mean a lot of people other than the 4 players and 3 girls initially involved in this mess. This is true for both the judicial side and for the University side. And no the University side is not, like some idiot called it, a Kangaroo court. The University side is not a court of law at all: it is a process used to enforce University rules, rules that apply only to the University and not to everyone in this Country or State. And just look at the post by Aquinas just above: would University rules allow for distribution of porno in campus? Any University official would blanch reading this. This type of idea cannot be allowed to grow, if the University is to keep its reputation. Are you planning to be a producer or distributor Aquinas? Do you have the connections to sell the porno in the net? Then there is GloryDays, forever seeking attention, saying he expects the FBI come knocking at his door to find out what he knows. PLEASE, there is no indication anywhere that this event involves any kind of wrong doing that has to do with interstate commerce (unless the tape is being shown for pay in the net as it may well be), organized crime, espionage, or any kind of Federal offense. GloryDays will seat on his behind for a long time waiting for the notoriety of being interviewed by the FBI. And if it happens that the FBI interviews him for posting something or the other, he will promptly find out this is a form of notoriety he does not want to have. The more complex the issue gets the, the worse the threat upon the University's status and reputation becomes, the greater the financial threat, and less number of options to deal with this issue will be available to the University to handle this event with all its ramifications. There is a reason for the requirement of silence and the privacy of an investigation into an act of possible wrong doing. When you get a bunch of people giving their invalid opinions into this type of process, they are not helping the girls, or the players. Likewise they are not helping the Judicial, or the University to do their job. And most certainly, the added complications being piled up on this case is going to make it very difficult to show any clemency to those involved. What all of these complications are really doing is limiting the range of possible outcomes to simple expulsion from the University, that is assuming the DA decides not to proceed to trial for either the girls, or the players or both parties in a criminal court and involving any number of charges that now may not be limited to simple rape, but may involve any number of other angles. There is also an increased chance for civil action claiming damages against the University that a good lawyer may figure out. The University cannot afford this type of event, the best way to deal with all of this is to expel every one involved in this event and at least some of the people involved in the distribution of this tape. None of this is good for any of the parties involved in this mess. And no, there is no likely solution forthcoming in the immediate future. The exponential growth of this event's complexity and apparent widespread involvement makes it so. First paragraph: complain that speculation is wrong and ridiculous. Next 850 words: Speculate all you want, including about the age of the girls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 25 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said: Which isn't so bad since we already bought them nice new cars to get them to SLU. Dude be quiet - the FBI might be listening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I know Ford may be interested in the Louisville job now that it is available, and this availability may make him feel more entitled to follow his own way. But recommending that he takes any action without getting the approval of the administration first will be the best way to insure the total destruction of the program which will happen if Ford and his assistants are fired together with a pile of the players. This is an issue the University cannot afford to let slide. And by the way the reputations and careers of the players involved were placed in jeopardy by their own actions, not by the University or the coach. They were signed in to play basketball not produce porno. If they start practice with the rest of the team it will be with the approval of the University, not otherwise. The University has to consider the potential liabilities it will incur if the players are allowed to practice and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, Old guy said: I know Ford may be interested in the Louisville job now that it is available, and this availability may make him feel more entitled to follow his own way. But recommending that he takes any action without getting the approval of the administration first will be the best way to insure the total destruction of the program which will happen if Ford and his assistants are fired together with a pile of the players. This is an issue the University cannot afford to let slide. And by the way the reputations and careers of the players involved were placed in jeopardy by their own actions, not by the University or the coach. They were signed in to play basketball not produce porno. If they start practice with the rest of the team it will be with the approval of the University, not otherwise. The University has to consider the potential liabilities it will incur if the players are allowed to practice and play. How did we get to Ford being fired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 36 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said: The sticking point is that the University's definition of consent is rather aggressive in that an intoxicated girl cannot give consent. This grinds my gears in so many ways. Everyone should be responsible for themselves. TheChosenOne likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 1 minute ago, jimbofive said: This grinds my gears in so many ways. Everyone should be responsible for themselves. If that was the case, we'd just be talking about how amp'd up we are for the 2017-2018 basketball season. It sucks, though, that we are at this impasse, where we obviously want to make sure the victims are protected but also wanting our guys defended as well. jimbofive likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said: If that was the case, we'd just be talking about how amp'd up we are for the 2017-2018 basketball season. It sucks, though, that we are at this impasse, where we obviously want to make sure the victims are protected but also wanting our guys defended as well. It's a step backwards in equal rights across all demographics. Her making the choice to be drunk is ok (and absolves her of any culpability), but him making the choice to have consensual sex as an adult is wrong. Hate to break it to the old guard, but done responsibly, one of those is better than the other. Bad decisions are still exactly that - voluntary decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravilst Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Videos/pictures like this are very common on college campuses. Just because SLU is a Jesuit school doesn't mean it doesn't happen here. Its the unfortunate result of immaturity/lack of rational thinking mixed with rapid expansion of technology. I saw more crap being shared via phone than a subscription to pornhub. SO if this speculated story is correct, does the university make an example of the players and girls and issue a harsh punishment? If thats the case wouldn't the players have a possible suit with regard to the lack of the university issuing similar punishment for similar acts committed by other sport teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 1 minute ago, gravilst said: Videos/pictures like this are very common on college campuses. Just because SLU is a Jesuit school doesn't mean it doesn't happen here. Its the unfortunate result of immaturity/lack of rational thinking mixed with rapid expansion of technology. I saw more crap being shared via phone than a subscription to pornhub. SO if this speculated story is correct, does the university make an example of the players and girls and issue a harsh punishment? If thats the case wouldn't the players have a possible suit with regard to the lack of the university issuing similar punishment for similar acts committed by other sport teams? I think you are kidding yourself if you think the University is going to take action against the girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillinthemost Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, gravilst said: Videos/pictures like this are very common on college campuses. Just because SLU is a Jesuit school doesn't mean it doesn't happen here. Its the unfortunate result of immaturity/lack of rational thinking mixed with rapid expansion of technology. I saw more crap being shared via phone than a subscription to pornhub. SO if this speculated story is correct, does the university make an example of the players and girls and issue a harsh punishment? If thats the case wouldn't the players have a possible suit with regard to the lack of the university issuing similar punishment for similar acts committed by other sport teams? wait, pornhub has a subscription? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 45 minutes ago, Old guy said: So, OK let's say that there was a tape, and let's say the girls stick with their claim (they cannot back out at this time after getting the police involved)... Again, I have no inside info, but people routinely drop charges every day in this country. They can quit cooperating at any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravilst Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Just now, brianstl said: I think you are kidding yourself if you think the University is going to take action against the girls. Again just going off the recent rumors, but if someone falsely accuses someone of a crime of such magnitude and involves a formal investigation; which results in evidence proving said claims were false. Why wouldn't the university do something? Is falsifying a police report not a crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravilst Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Just now, chillinthemost said: wait, pornhub has a subscription? IDK just used the name of a common porn site. They probably do for the really good stuff. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, gravilst said: Again just going off the recent rumors, but if someone falsely accuses someone of a crime of such magnitude and involves a formal investigation; which results in evidence proving said claims were false. Why wouldn't the university do something? Is falsifying a police report not a crime? It is not the way these universities operate. It has been discussed on here. They automatically believe the female when the claim is made. The accused doesn't get a presumption of innocence. They don't reprimand girls for provable false claims because they say that will stop victims from coming forward. The whole thing is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, gravilst said: Again just going off the recent rumors, but if someone falsely accuses someone of a crime of such magnitude and involves a formal investigation; which results in evidence proving said claims were false. Why wouldn't the university do something? Because the men in power have taken the position that women are a protected class. I understand the historical basis for it but it's not a sustainable position. The young men in the society aren't going to accept being scapegoated forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 34 minutes ago, Old guy said: I know Ford may be interested in the Louisville job now that it is available, and this availability may make him feel more entitled to follow his own way. -so you KNOW nothing, correct? why are you going down the speculation road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 39 minutes ago, kshoe said: First paragraph: complain that speculation is wrong and ridiculous. Next 850 words: Speculate all you want, including about the age of the girls... And now speculating about Ford... hilarious. If anyone is being fired over this you'd think it would be Chris May, how many incidents like this do we need to go through? And why would Louisville want to hire Ford (no offense, Coach). Also, glorydays was referring to the FBI tipline in relation to the recruiting scandal.. not ours.. (I think). Take a breath, old guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 19 minutes ago, majerus mojo said: And now speculating about Ford... hilarious. If anyone is being fired over this you'd think it would be Chris May, how many incidents like this do we need to go through? And why would Louisville want to hire Ford (no offense, Coach). tom crean is the logical choice imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Among undergraduate students, 23.1% of females experience rape or sexual assault through physical force, violence or incapacitation. Only 20% of female student victims report the crime to law enforcement. Nobody on this board knows what happened. It seems a large group would like to assume the charges (of which we do not know the literal details) are false, made-up or maliciousness. I hope the accused get fair treatment and adequate representation, but I think the accusers should be given some benefit of the doubt as well. rgbilliken likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I'm not buying those statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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