Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[WestCoastBilliken]

9 minutes ago, JohnnyJumpUp said:

Which Missouri statute does that fall under?

I would assume this one works if it is the case they filmed without the girls knowledge, but doesnt necessarily sounds like that is the case.  So who knows. 

MO.REV.STAT. § 565.252 (2008). Invasion of privacy, first degree, penalty

1. A person commits the crime of invasion of privacy in the first degree if such person:(1) Knowingly photographs or films another person, without the person's knowledge and consent, while the person being photographed or filmed is in a state of full or partial nudity and is in a place where one would have a reasonable expectation of privacy, and the person subsequently distributes the photograph or film to another or transmits the image contained in the photograph or film in a manner that allows access to that image via a computer

http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/voyeurism_statutes_mar_09.pdf

[JohnnyJumpUp]

9 minutes ago, WestCoastBilliken said:

I would assume this one works if it is the case they filmed without the girls knowledge, but doesnt necessarily sounds like that is the case.  So who knows. 

MO.REV.STAT. § 565.252 (2008). Invasion of privacy, first degree, penalty

1. A person commits the crime of invasion of privacy in the first degree if such person:(1) Knowingly photographs or films another person, without the person's knowledge and consent, while the person being photographed or filmed is in a state of full or partial nudity and is in a place where one would have a reasonable expectation of privacy, and the person subsequently distributes the photograph or film to another or transmits the image contained in the photograph or film in a manner that allows access to that image via a computer

http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/voyeurism_statutes_mar_09.pdf

There are a lot of elements there that need to be met. We will find out soon enough, but I'm guessing all of these elements will not be met.

[majerus mojo]

25 minutes ago, BillIkenFan_Dan said:

Now days if they don't have a story they'll make one

— Aaron Hines (@Get_Buckets24) September 27, 2017           

hey guys i'm new to the board but iv'e been following for awhile huge fan of the billikens but this tweet posted by aaron hines has been deleted by him today

[chillinthemost]

I have obtained video of what happened.  Please do not distribute to others

 

 

 

[TheA_Bomb]

If the videoing is true this stuff happens, a lot.

In 2015, Texas dismissed 2 football players involved in a similar situation and they were later found not guilty but did not return to the team.

http://www.hookemplus.com/story/kendall-sanders-found-not-guilty-of-sexual-assault/

 

[kmbilliken]

If they secretly video taped a sexual encounter my recommended punishment would be expulsion for all who knew it was being done. I am fairly liberal. I doubt the University  would be more understanding. Even if it is video taped with consent I would expel all who knew of the video taping. You can't allow the production of pornograhy on campus.

[slufan13]

15 minutes ago, kmbilliken said:

If they secretly video taped a sexual encounter my recommended punishment would be expulsion for all who knew it was being done. I am fairly liberal. I doubt the University  would be more understanding. 

I feel like if it was secretly taped, there would be legal consequences. The general consensus appears to be that there will be no legal/criminal charges. This is all speculation/connecting the dots on my part, but currently my thought process is that the act and filming was consensual. The sharing of the video was not. 

But yes I agree with your point about being secretly taped. If that's the case, I'm in favor of significant punishment. 

[billikenfan05]

7 hours ago, BillIkenFan_Dan said:

Now days if they don't have a story they'll make one

— Aaron Hines (@Get_Buckets24) September 27, 2017           

hey guys i'm new to the board but iv'e been following for awhile huge fan of the billikens but this tweet posted by aaron hines has been deleted by him today

Huge if true

[Aquinas]

IF the story we have now is accurate AND the girls had some awareness of the video.  Would student conduct rules allow for production and distribution of pornography on campus?

[JMM28]

6 minutes ago, Aquinas said:

IF the story we have now is accurate AND the girls had some awareness of the video.  Would student conduct rules allow for production and distribution of pornography on campus?

I'm going to need to see the tape before I make any conclusions on this. 

[JohnnyJumpUp]

55 minutes ago, kmbilliken said:

If they secretly video taped a sexual encounter my recommended punishment would be expulsion for all who knew it was being done. I am fairly liberal. I doubt the University  would be more understanding. Even if it is video taped with consent I would expel all who knew of the video taping. You can't allow the production of pornograhy on campus.

That's a good point, but if production of pornography on campus is reason for expulsion, you could lose half the student body with the amount of pictures and videos taken and sent to/from students with technology these days.

[TheChosenOne]

1 minute ago, JohnnyJumpUp said:

That's a good point, but if production of pornography on campus is reason for expulsion, you could lose half the student body with the amount of pictures and videos taken and sent to/from students with technology these days.

I was in college at the wrong time.....

[Pistol]

Just now, TheChosenOne said:

I was in college at the wrong time.....

....or maybe exactly the right time. I'm not sure I'd want a record of our college years.

[TheChosenOne]

2 minutes ago, Pistol said:

....or maybe exactly the right time. I'm not sure I'd want a record of our college years.

This is probably more accurate.

[NextYearBill]

im now thinking..... the players in question are suspended for the first half of the season.

[billikenfan05]

1 minute ago, NextYearBill said:

im now thinking..... the players in question are suspended for the first half of the season.

Throw in a campus housing ban

[BIG BILL FAN]

1 hour ago, slufan13 said:

I feel like if it was secretly taped, there would be legal consequences. The general consensus appears to be that there will be no legal/criminal charges. This is all speculation/connecting the dots on my part, but currently my thought process is that the act and filming was consensual. The sharing of the video was not. 

But yes I agree with your point about being secretly taped. If that's the case, I'm in favor of significant punishment. 

If it was taped, then we should probably only be talking about one individual not four. 

[TheChosenOne]

Just now, billikenfan05 said:

Throw in a campus housing ban

Which isn't so bad since we already bought them nice new cars to get them to SLU.

[TheChosenOne]

Just now, BIG BILL FAN said:

If it was taped, then we should probably only be talking about one individual not four. 

The sticking point is that the University's definition of consent is rather aggressive in that an intoxicated girl cannot give consent.

[Old guy]

This thread has taken a very wrong turn propelled by raw speculation. This is totally and completely ridiculous, this board is conducting its own Kangaroo trial about what happened. The problem is basically that no one in this board is qualified to judge this case as far as the judicial system or the University system go. This is in so many words raw opinion passing as fact. The net effect of what is being done is adding complexity to the case by leaps and bounds, insuring a lengthier evaluation and decision process. And making the possible outcomes worse and more encompassing.

So, OK let's say that there was a tape, and let's say the girls stick with their claim (they cannot back out  at this time after getting the police involved), so now what, all that has been done is to make the case a lot more complex. Now, it is not only the players that are in trouble of disciplining or conviction of something or the other, the girls get to the firing line as well. Very nicely done, stupidity begets stupidity as is usually the case. So, the lawyers get into the scene interpreting the evidence gathered in ways that will benefit their clients the most and help their case the most. Let's add  some obvious potential complications, let's say views of this tape may be had for pay via the net. Who put it there, who is making money out of it, how are the students or the girls involved in this? Now the problem becomes bigger for both the Judicial and the University. There are new charges that can be added to it, new legal issues arise. To make things worse, let's just pretend that one of the girls is not 18 years old yet, as may well be the case (I am sure nobody carded the girls other than the bar which may be in a world of trouble if one of them happens to have used a funny ID). OOOOHH, the case just got bigger and more complicated. The number of charges that can be used just grew even more. The bigger this case gets the absolutely less likelihood there is for a happy outcome for all involved. All involved can mean a lot of people other than the 4 players and 3 girls initially involved in this mess. This is true for both the judicial side and for the University side. And no the University side is not, like some idiot called it, a Kangaroo court. The University side is not a court of law at all: it is a process used to enforce University rules, rules that apply only to the University and not to everyone in this Country or State. 

And just look at the post by Aquinas just above: would University rules allow for distribution of porno in campus? Any University official would blanch reading this. This type of idea cannot be allowed to grow, if the University is to keep its reputation. Are you planning to be a producer or distributor Aquinas? Do you have the connections to sell the porno in the net?

Then there is GloryDays, forever seeking attention, saying he expects the FBI come knocking at his door to find out what he knows. PLEASE, there is no indication anywhere that this event involves any kind of wrong doing that has to do with interstate commerce (unless the tape is being shown for pay in the net as it may well be), organized crime, espionage, or any kind of Federal offense. GloryDays will seat on his behind for a long time waiting for the notoriety of being interviewed by the FBI. And if it happens that the FBI interviews him for posting something or the other, he will promptly find out this is a form of notoriety he does not want to have.

The more complex the issue gets the, the worse the threat upon the University's status and reputation becomes, the greater the financial threat, and less number of options to deal with this issue will be available to the University to handle this event with all its ramifications. There is a reason for the requirement of silence and the privacy of an investigation into an act of possible wrong doing. When you get a bunch of people giving their invalid opinions into this type of process, they are not helping the girls, or the players. Likewise they are not helping the Judicial, or the University to do their job. And most certainly, the added complications being piled up on this case is going to make it very difficult to show any clemency to those involved. What all of these complications are really doing is limiting the range of possible outcomes to simple expulsion from the University, that is assuming the DA decides not to proceed to trial for either the  girls, or the players or both parties in a criminal court and involving any number of charges that now may not be limited to simple rape, but may involve any number of other angles. There is also an increased chance for civil action claiming damages against the University that a good lawyer may figure out. The University cannot afford this type of event, the best way to deal with all of this is to expel every one involved in this event and at least some of the people involved in the distribution of this tape.

None of this is good for any of the parties involved in this mess. And no, there is no likely solution forthcoming in the immediate future. The exponential growth of this event's complexity and apparent widespread involvement makes it so.

[slufan13]

Kwamain's punishment in 2010 was actually pretty light from a basketball standpoint I suppose. He was dismissed from school in October, reinstated in January, and then took a redshirt in the second semester of that season because it made the most logistical sense based on the state of the season, his own eligibility, etc. If we had the exact same punishment here, I could see the players declining the redshirt semester and playing in January.

[BIG BILL FAN]

6 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

The sticking point is that the University's definition of consent is rather aggressive in that an intoxicated girl cannot give consent.

I'm just referring to the taping. 

[NextYearBill]

5 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Kwamain's punishment in 2010 was actually pretty light from a basketball standpoint I suppose. He was dismissed from school in October, reinstated in January, and then took a redshirt in the second semester of that season because it made the most logistical sense based on the state of the season, his own eligibility, etc. If we had the exact same punishment here, I could see the players declining the redshirt semester and playing in January.

yes.

[Old guy]

Sulfan, I do not think the Judicial or the University will be able to reach a decision as to how this case will be handled in time to give the players the options that were presented to Kwamin and Willie, not for this season anyways.

[brianstl]

11 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Throw in a campus housing ban

Which is BS.  If I was one of the players, I wouldn't stand for that.  Almost any punishment at this point will make them look guilty. People will think they got off criminally because rape cases are hard to prove in court.

I would lawyer up and make a stand.  Their reputations are at stake here.  Their ability to get jobs and their potential lifetime earnings are on the line.