billikenfan05 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Littlebill said: These are Future lyrics Future has lyrics? I thought he just mumbled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastBilliken Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Just now, slufan13 said: Very poorly timed Or perfectly timed if he is using them to make a statement about something currently going on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon-Balls Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the players involved will be suspended for most or all of the season. It's too murky of a case for the University to boot them out entirely, but I do believe they will suspend them as a way of saying that being in group situations like this never ends well and it was foolish for them to do so regardless of what actually happened. The University wants to discourage late night activities (especially considering it took place on campus in Marchetti) that put students in a position to do something really stupid, so they will lay out some sort of punishment. It will likely be similar to the situation 1.0. While this is absolutely depressing for fans, I think we will still have one of the more talented teams in the A10 and will have an enjoyable season (albeit probably no post season). Hopefully this is something that the players, coaches, and fans can learn something from and move on afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, Spoon-Balls said: While this is absolutely depressing for fans, I think we will still have one of the more talented teams in the A10 and will have an enjoyable season (albeit probably no post season). Hopefully this is something that the players, coaches, and fans can learn something from and move on afterwards. if your roster for the coming season is missing just about the entire projected starting lineup and another 2-3 substitutes and will be filled in with the slu defending intramural champion roster, i just dont think that will be an enjoyable season. dont get me wrong, if this indeed happened, the players concerned deserve every bit of the punishment being discussed if not more. a billiken player has to be better than this off the floor. but this is lining up to make our coming season a nightmare that may eclipse crewsplatt low point. what a shock to the billiken fandom. just when we thought we saw the light at the end of the tunnel........................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouthBilliken Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 "Student animals" -fixed it for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 6 minutes ago, Spoon-Balls said: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the players involved will be suspended for most or all of the season. It's too murky of a case for the University to boot them out entirely, but I do believe they will suspend them as a way of saying that being in group situations like this never ends well and it was foolish for them to do so regardless of what actually happened. The University wants to discourage late night activities (especially considering it took place on campus in Marchetti) that put students in a position to do something really stupid, so they will lay out some sort of punishment. It will likely be similar to the situation 1.0. While this is absolutely depressing for fans, I think we will still have one of the more talented teams in the A10 and will have an enjoyable season (albeit probably no post season). Hopefully this is something that the players, coaches, and fans can learn something from and move on afterwards. From a basketball only standpoint, this is my mean expectation at this point. Obviously criminal charges change everything. If all 4 of the rumored players got a 1-year suspension, the team would definitely suffer significantly this year. No way around that. If they stick in the program it won't be a long-term killer though as two of them could redshirt and not lose eligibility. That isn't the case for two others. The parallels to 2010 will continue as it will effectively delay the Billiken resurgence by a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouthBilliken Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 3 hours ago, kmbilliken said: This is not going to turn out to be a simple consent case(although those can also be complicated). Think of it, three women consenting to have sex with four men. There are seven different minds working here, each with their own perception of what is going on. If at some point one decides I don't want this, but six still do, do we have a conspiracy in which two of the women should also be charged? This is a legal mess. No prosecutor is going to pursue a sexual assault case in which the claimed victim agreed to engage in group sex, then changed their mind because they don't like it in the midst of the activities. Will a Catholic University allow alcohol and group sex go unpunished? Doubtful. What parent is going to want their daughter go to a school that condones what may perceived as a drunken orgy? I am assuming most or all had been drinking and it was group sex. The first because it is a weekend night and these are college students. The second because it is 4 on 3 and I can't imagine a scenario where three different women went into three separate rooms with three different men and all were sexually assaulted. I'm also not sure where man 4 comes into play in that scenario. disturbing to say the least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2017-09-26/new-title-ix-guidance-gives-schools-choice-in-sexual-misconduct-cases?src=usn_rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldboystl Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 25 minutes ago, kshoe said: From a basketball only standpoint, this is my mean expectation at this point. Obviously criminal charges change everything. If all 4 of the rumored players got a 1-year suspension, the team would definitely suffer significantly this year. No way around that. If they stick in the program it won't be a long-term killer though as two of them could redshirt and not lose eligibility. That isn't the case for two others. The parallels to 2010 will continue as it will effectively delay the Billiken resurgence by a year. I am sorry, if a player is granted a redshirt to gain an extra year of eligibility after being involved in a accusation like this is wrong. Very similar to the OU deal where Stoops hid details for player involved in physical assault. Didn't end well for Stoops wants everything became public. SLU will have fine line to walk over the upcoming days and weeks. I hate seeing things like this happen for all involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquinas Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 What impact would suspensions have on player eligibility and scholarships? If a senior is suspended and returns next year under scholarship, I assume that would take one of next years expected openings. What options would transfers have in terms of going to another program? I am really hoping Our incoming freshmen were not involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 40 minutes ago, Spoon-Balls said: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the players involved will be suspended for most or all of the season. It's too murky of a case for the University to boot them out entirely, but I do believe they will suspend them as a way of saying that being in group situations like this never ends well and it was foolish for them to do so regardless of what actually happened. The University wants to discourage late night activities (especially considering it took place on campus in Marchetti) that put students in a position to do something really stupid, so they will lay out some sort of punishment. It will likely be similar to the situation 1.0. While this is absolutely depressing for fans, I think we will still have one of the more talented teams in the A10 and will have an enjoyable season (albeit probably no post season). Hopefully this is something that the players, coaches, and fans can learn something from and move on afterwards. If they are cleared by the legal authorities............. Suspend them all for the season and watch every player that can transfer, transfer right now. If you are going to sit for a year anyway you might as go to a place where there is at least a chance you will play for a school that will publicly have your back when authorities clear you. Expect others on the team to follow suit. No need to stick around for your turn to be falsely accused and then be left hung out to dry. 3star_recruit and slufan13 like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 1 minute ago, brianstl said: If they are cleared by the legal authorities............. Suspend them all for the season and watch every player that can transfer, transfer right now. If you are going to sit for a year anyway you might as go to a place where there is at least a chance you will play for a school that will publicly have your back when authorities clear you. Expect others on the team to follow suit. No need to stick around for your turn to be falsely accused and then be left hung out to dry. Yup. I fear this is going to be worse than The Situation and will have a long-term negative impact on the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon-Balls Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, brianstl said: If they are cleared by the legal authorities............. Suspend them all for the season and watch every player that can transfer, transfer right now. If you are going to sit for a year anyway you might as go to a place where there is at least a chance you will play for a school that will publicly have your back when authorities clear you. Expect others on the team to follow suit. No need to stick around for your turn to be falsely accused and then be left hung out to dry. I completely agree with you in principle. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely do not want suspensions to happen, but I fear it is the only natural consequence. Can you imagine the public smear campaign against the University if Pestello does nothing? It's damn unfortunate, but I feel as though University leaders have their hands tied on this one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Just now, moytoy12 said: Yup. I fear this is going to be worse than The Situation and will have a long-term negative impact on the program. Yes, if this all plays out like I think it might. We won't have to worry about making any road trips anywhere this season. You got to have enough guys to put on the court to play those games. Forget about recruiting any D1 level basketball players for at least the next five years. SLU is going to poison in all recruits mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 To piggyback on what Brian just said, young men are not happy with the status quo. Us older guys remember when the pendulum was totally the other way -- the reporting of sexual assault itself was a taboo subject and many young women's lives were wrecked in the process. Now the pendulum has swung so far that even being accused of sexual assault can result in men being punished. This is world that 18-22 year old young men grew up in. They don't have any experience with the conditions older men have tried to correct. All they know is that they're being scapegoated. If they can transfer and start over, they will. And that will damage will future recruiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Just now, Spoon-Balls said: I completely agree with you in principle. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely do not want suspensions to happen, but I fear it is the only natural consequence. Can you imagine the public smear campaign against the University if Pestello does nothing? It's damn unfortunate, but I feel as though University leaders have their hands tied on this one.... Well, get ready for the campaign targeting SLU for not having the back of a half dozens black kids cleared by the police and letting a presumption of guilt remain on them. Because, that is going to be what happens if these kids are legally cleared and the school throws a hammer of a year long suspension and places other restrictions on the benefits they receive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 6 minutes ago, brianstl said: Yes, if this all plays out like I think it might. We won't have to worry about making any road trips anywhere this season. You got to have enough guys to put on the court to play those games. Forget about recruiting any D1 level basketball players for at least the next five years. SLU is going to poison in all recruits mind. It's a scary picture to paint but it's not what ended up happening in 2010 here or in places like Xavier in the years following. These things correct quicker than people expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastBilliken Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, brianstl said: Well, get ready for the campaign targeting SLU for not having the back of a half dozens black kids cleared by the police and letting a presumption of guilt remain on them. Because, that is going to be what happens if these kids are legally cleared and the school throws a hammer of a year long suspension and places other restrictions on the benefits they receive. It is going to be a no win situation for SLU regardless of which side they take. On one side its as you say above and the other its being okay with sexual assault and/or victim blaming/not believing. I personally think if it ends with he said / she said and no charges are filed, we will see suspensions like the first situation. This is not a good situation for us. Im very concerned we are in for another couple long years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Just now, kshoe said: It's a scary picture to paint but it's not what ended up happening in 2010 here or in places like Xavier in the years following. These things correct quicker than people expect. If you haven't noticed, much has changed in country since then. If the school did this to one guy in today's environment the hit would be less. Doing it to the numbers we are talking about and that just makes it look like you are targeting a group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Just now, WestCoastBilliken said: It is going to be a no win situation for SLU regardless of which side they take. On one side its as you say above and the other its being okay with sexual assault and/or victim blaming/not believing. This is not a good situation for us. Im very concerned we are in for another couple long years. And then add on the university financial issues/need for donors plus the fact that a similar event happened relatively recently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, WestCoastBilliken said: It is going to be a no win situation for SLU regardless of which side they take. On one side its as you say above and the other its being okay with sexual assault and/or victim blaming/not believing. I personally think if it ends with he said / she said and no charges are filed, we will see suspensions like the first situation. This is not a good situation for us. Im very concerned we are in for another couple long years. follow the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Again, keep in mind that we're having two different discussions. If these guys didn't do anything wrong and they get suspended for just putting themselves in a bad position, then I agree that would be very unfortunate. It would probably happen, but it would be unfortunate. If they did something wrong such that two girls went to the hospital to presumably get a work up with rape kits, then that's a whole different discussion. If the girls said "I'm not comfortable with what is happening anymore and I'd like to leave now" and that's not what occurred, I could care less what happens to them. I would be upset about the harm done to the program, but I wouldn't be shedding any tears for the individuals involved. Zink likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 1 minute ago, cgeldmacher said: Again, keep in mind that we're having two different discussions. If these guys didn't do anything wrong and they get suspended for just putting themselves in a bad position, then I agree that would be very unfortunate. It would probably happen, but it would be unfortunate. If they did something wrong such that two girls went to the hospital to presumably get a work up with rape kits, then that's a whole different discussion. If the girls said "I'm not comfortable with what is happening anymore and I'd like to leave now" and that's not what occurred, I could care less what happens to them. I would be upset about the harm done to the program, but I wouldn't be shedding any tears for the individuals involved. Good points and I'd like to think we all agree. I suspect most of us are talking about the consequences for a situation that occurred in former circumstance you describe. If the latter happened, then I'd like to think we're all on the same page as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Does anyone know how long it would typically take the PD to press criminal charges? Police were summoned around 2 am Sunday morning. I don't have the slightest clue how these things work so just wondering if we should have expected to hear something more than 72 hours later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Particularly if there is criminal action coming out of this incident, I would think the transfer option would not be available to anyone involved in this mess. After all, this is a case that will attract public attention (which is currently deflected to some extent by the sports bribery scandal going on). If there is no criminal action coming out of this event, the facts of the matter will still be available to the public, and to school administrators. I do not think the likelihood of transferring right away and starting anew would be viable in this case either. As far as the NBA goes, I have no idea what kind of selection process they use but assume that the facts of the case would also be available to the selection boards. For the players involved in this event, this is a possible career killing disaster. Maybe they can go play in Poland or somewhere far away, other than that they may literally have screwed their way out of a possibly good career. Talking about stupid behavior! I mean, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the two girls went to the hospital for a rape work up, police is not called in for routine cases, it is called in as part of the protocol for rape work ups, as is counselling, etc... The fact that they went to the hospital and the police was called insures there will be abundant evidence to review while making a decision to either prosecute them or not. And by the way, really do hope, particularly if they got enthusiastic while doing the deed, no one had the terrible idea of making a video of the whole process. It would be really bad for them if a video was done. Sulfan the PD does not press criminal charges, I believe that is the business of the prosecutor called upon to review the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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