NextYearBill Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 17 minutes ago, JMM28 said: So... the players are going to get in trouble which will lead to St Louis acquiring a G League team? Chaifetz stops throwing money at SLU in favor of a G League team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyser soze Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Pay attention to this story. Should be an interesting comparison and see how another school handles their situation... so far no mention of Title XI from OU, that's odd http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/21676086/oklahoma-sooners-rb-rodney-anderson-facing-rape-allegation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 15 minutes ago, brianstl said: I never implied any of those things are rights. I have accepted SLU is going to suck for another five years. If I was a player involved I would be gone at the semester. However, Title IX is something that SLU has to comply with. Title IX guidance states that SLU can't do that. They will have to show that the interim measure was reasonable for meeting the individual needs of the students involved in the process. Not so sure about that. AD would be a big loss, obviously, but who really knows about Graves. Not sure he would be difficult to replace and Bishop - since he's a Crews recruit of course he is no good (baiting moytoy). We still figure to have one hell of a front line to build around - French, Gordon, Foreman, Santos, Johnson, Bess. We add Thatch and Pearson, but would still need to obviously add some backcourt depth to help Goodwin. Get a grad transfer, a juco and a hs player in the spring, and we could still be just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon-Balls Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 8 minutes ago, keyser soze said: Pay attention to this story. Should be an interesting comparison and see how another school handles their situation... so far no mention of Title XI from OU, that's odd http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/21676086/oklahoma-sooners-rb-rodney-anderson-facing-rape-allegation Surprising that an Oklahoma spokesman came out with that statement providing unequivocal support for Anderson. They obviously took the opposite approach of SLU... I have my doubts about Ford staying longterm at a school that doesn't provide him with that level of support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBL_Bills Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, ACE said: Not so sure about that. AD would be a big loss, obviously, but who really knows about Graves. Not sure he would be difficult to replace and Bishop - since he's a Crews recruit of course he is no good (baiting moytoy). We still figure to have one hell of a front line to build around - French, Gordon, Foreman, Santos, Johnson, Bess. We add Thatch and Pearson, but would still need to obviously add some backcourt depth to help Goodwin. Get a grad transfer, a juco and a hs player in the spring, and we could still be just fine. He's working under the assumption that the way SLU is handling Sit 2.0, Ford, the assistant coaching staff, and every player on the roster is so disgusted that they will transfer/quit after the season. That might be a tad hyperbolic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, ACE said: Not so sure about that. AD would be a big loss, obviously, but who really knows about Graves. Not sure he would be difficult to replace and Bishop - since he's a Crews recruit of course he is no good (baiting moytoy). We still figure to have one hell of a front line to build around - French, Gordon, Foreman, Santos, Johnson, Bess. We add Thatch and Pearson, but would still need to obviously add some backcourt depth to help Goodwin. Get a grad transfer, a juco and a hs player in the spring, and we could still be just fine. That assumes no one else leaves the program and that Ford can effectively recruit with this hanging over the program. I hope your optimism is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 1 minute ago, GBL_Bills said: He's working under the assumption that the way SLU is handling Sit 2.0, Ford, the assistant coaching staff, and every player on the roster is so disgusted that they will transfer/quit after the season. That might be a tad hyperbolic Not operating under that assumption at all. I do believe this will really hurt recruiting. I think one or two other players might leave the program. We will have two guys that will be 5th year players that can transfer without sitting if they graduate. I don't think Ford is going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabriel Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Rather than getting political or you guys providing your depressing and incoherent thoughts on the topic, can we just use this thread for actual updates on situation 2.0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseOfTheBillikens Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Just now, gabriel said: Rather than getting political or you guys providing your depressing and incoherent thoughts on the topic, can we just use this thread for actual updates on situation 2.0? This is a fan message board where fans come to conversate about the recent happenings of the team. Check the news if you want the updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 The only way to end Title IX overreach is for more schools to follow Oklahoma's lead and not automatically assume guilt. dlarry likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 22 minutes ago, ACE said: Not so sure about that. AD would be a big loss, obviously, but who really knows about Graves. Not sure he would be difficult to replace and Bishop - since he's a Crews recruit of course he is no good (baiting moytoy). We still figure to have one hell of a front line to build around - French, Gordon, Foreman, Santos, Johnson, Bess. We add Thatch and Pearson, but would still need to obviously add some backcourt depth to help Goodwin. Get a grad transfer, a juco and a hs player in the spring, and we could still be just fine. this is a pretty good post. and i love ace's passion. my problem is we just keep (over the last 30some years) constantly take one step forward, two steps back and repeat. when do we ever learn. we thought this was a turnaround start now it has the makings of a step backwards from last year which i had hoped was the real last year of crewsplatt. we just need to rid ourselves of this situation asap. one way or the other. i would love to have henriquez on the floor, but if it is going to continue to drag on and continue to haunt the program and all of us connected in whatever way, then let's move on and start over again. now as to your suggestion, well that seems easy but you are assuming the top line recruits (which our coach has shown he can play in that realm)will not be flooded with negative recruiting about us concerning this botched title 9 b.s. i tend to agree with brian that we will suffer because of it. it could easily be the tie breaker with recruits and force us to take the next level players and pray for a jett like emergence of developing potential. that fails more than succeeds. it is all so depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Interesting NY Times article about Title IX sexual assault investigations. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/magazine/the-takedown-of-title-ix.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 18 minutes ago, brianstl said: That assumes no one else leaves the program and that Ford can effectively recruit with this hanging over the program. I hope your optimism is correct. We still don't know how this will be resolved. I agree, it is not good this thing is still dragging on, but there are a wide range of possibilities that don't result in this being a complete long-term disaster for the program. brianstl likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Bobby Metzinger said: Problem is, the middle ground, while trying to please everyone, pleases no one. Disagree. If SLU initially investigates and believe there is some degree of substance to the charges and/or that some school/team rules were broken, then an initial suspension sends the message that SLU considers this to be important and that initial action is not only warranted but was, in fact, taken (unlike Baylor and Florida State...) and therefore helps insulate SLU from legal exposure and large judgments for doing nothing. Maybe internal consequences such as missed practices/busy work around the school/athletic department for a minor violation, the same plus 5 games for medium level violations and the same plus an additional 5 games (total of 10 games) for potential larger violations. Major potential violations/legal charges filed result in immediate expulsion. Then, additional punishment can/will be levied pending the outcome of the Title IX investigation and credit can be given for "time/games served". The problem is that a Title IX complaint could be filed after a season is over or that an efficient, quick investigation could be completed after 30 days and therefore little to no game suspensions may take place. Further, a Title IX complaint could be filed just at the start/middle of a season or that an inefficient/lengthy investigation may result in an entire season being lost for similar charges. Depending upon the circumstances, this approach might actually encourage the players and/or their attorneys to drag such an investigation out for an extended period of time. A Senior's NCAA basketball eligibility ends in March so an initial 10 game suspension and a 6 month investigation might work best for him. And since so many are concerned about a truly complete and thorough investigation, I am sure this approach of investigating for 6 months will actually be better than investigation for only 2 months and will undoubtedly satisfy all their concerns. Assume similar Title IX complaints were made on September 26, 2017 against 4 SLU male students: a soccer, a basketball player, a baseball player and a non-athletes Also, assume equal "guilt" as determined after a 4 month investigation but no criminal charges or circumstances warranting expulsion. Is if fair that Fall sport athlete (soccer player) misses his whole season, that the Winter sport athlete (basketball player) miss half his season; that Spring sport athlete (baseball player) miss nothing and that the non-athlete receive no additional punishment b/c he plays no sport? : According to Wendelprof, SLU's own Title IX coordinator discussed issues in not requiring all investigations be completed within 60 days and things are uncomfortable, for both the accuser and the accused, during the investigation if both continue to live on campus, go to classes, etc. If a SLU athlete misses 5 games while living on campus and going to class, regardless, and that a SLU non-student athlete has no games to miss while living on campus and going to class, then it can be said that SLU punishes its athletes MORE than its non-athletes -- the complete opposite of Baylor, Florida State, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 2 hours ago, 3star_recruit said: The only way to end Title IX overreach is for more schools to follow Oklahoma's lead and not automatically assume guilt. If SLU does that, then it could end up with this situation. https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/10/25/oregon-kavell-bigby-williams-title-ix-investigation I've researched this and found articles discussing problems both ways. These matters are nightmares for college administrators. There are victims suing universities because players are being allowed to continue to play and there are players suing universities because they are not being allowed to play. The problem here is not SLU. I may be making the same decisions as they have given the climate. The problem is the current cluster**** that is the state of these Title IX investigations. Please blame that. Also, I'm not sure I want to support a program that follows the University of Oklahoma's lead on how to ethically and morally handle something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromDaEastSide Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 http://www.espn.com/core/video/iframe?id=17359014&endcard=false Outside The Lines segment from last year regarding the Title IX regarding Oregon Basketball team, how there names were released. Also linked is the Oregon Live article on Former Ducks Damyean Dotson, Dominic Artis sue Oregon, seeking $10 million each after rape accusations. http://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/index.ssf/2016/03/former_ducks_damyean_dotson_do.html They were dismissed by UO in May 2014 after being accused, but never charged, of raping a fellow student at an off-campus party two months earlier. The claims in Artis and Dotson's suit alleges the Oregon's investigation was biased against the players and that each player's future income has been damaged by the accusations. "Both Artis and Dotson continued to play after the alleged rape, and helped Oregon reach the round of 32 in the 2014 NCAA Tournament while being investigated by Eugene police." Artis and Dotson were not charged. BTW, Dotson and Artis both started against us in San Jose in the 2013 NCAA tournament. Dotson was lights out that game going for 23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papal Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I wonder how things would have been handled if Biondi were still president of SLU? Dose having a lay president tend to make Pestello stand on the higher moral ground? Of course, situation one was handled by Biondi. The program has a;lways felt it should be superior academically and morally than other basketball programs. Reminds me of the Craig Upchurch fiasco years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, papal said: I wonder how things would have been handled if Biondi were still president of SLU? Dose having a lay president tend to make Pestello stand on the higher moral ground? Of course, situation one was handled by Biondi. The program has a;lways felt it should be superior academically and morally than other basketball programs. Reminds me of the Craig Upchurch fiasco years ago. In S2.0, it does not appear that the accuser(s) is tied to a wealthy donor so I suspect Biondi would have handled S2.0 differently from S1.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 25 minutes ago, FromDaEastSide said: http://www.espn.com/core/video/iframe?id=17359014&endcard=false Outside The Lines segment from last year regarding the Title IX regarding Oregon Basketball team, how there names were released. Also linked is the Oregon Live article on Former Ducks Damyean Dotson, Dominic Artis sue Oregon, seeking $10 million each after rape accusations. http://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/index.ssf/2016/03/former_ducks_damyean_dotson_do.html They were dismissed by UO in May 2014 after being accused, but never charged, of raping a fellow student at an off-campus party two months earlier. The claims in Artis and Dotson's suit alleges the Oregon's investigation was biased against the players and that each player's future income has been damaged by the accusations. "Both Artis and Dotson continued to play after the alleged rape, and helped Oregon reach the round of 32 in the 2014 NCAA Tournament while being investigated by Eugene police." Artis and Dotson were not charged. BTW, Dotson and Artis both started against us in San Jose in the 2013 NCAA tournament. Dotson was lights out that game going for 23. Also, Oregon got in trouble because they didn't move forward with an investigation and they accepted a student after he was suspended at another school. They didn't get sued for letting the guys play. The woman sued Oregon for letting Brandon Austin into the school without regard to the disciplinary action that was in effect at Providence. The article starts by mentioning Bigby-Williams played the entire season under investigation. Once you read the article the there are no statements that letting the guys play in either case was the problem. The problems were not moving forward with an investigation and accepting a kid that had already received a suspension after a completed Title IX investigation. None of the legal problems Oregon has had to deal with were because the guys played or because they presumed their players were innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Looking forward and in the snapshot of the current, the way to mitigate, in the interim, this SLU Situation 2.0 is to end what appear to be the discretionary, interim suspensions, and allow the players to play beginning tomorrow night vs. SIUC. The Title IX process continues to completion, but the players are allowed to play in the games absent a future adverse adjudication. Eight games, counting the exhibition, are eight too many absent an adverse adjudication. But to compromise, Eight is Enough. Free the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almaman Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said: Interesting NY Times article about Title IX sexual assault investigations. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/magazine/the-takedown-of-title-ix.html Damn read whole thing did I miss SIU game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billslasttermdropout Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 (edited) See below Edited December 5, 2017 by billslasttermdropout Double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billslasttermdropout Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 2 hours ago, JMM28 said: So... the players are going to get in trouble which will lead to St Louis acquiring a G League team? Yes, I said I could see something like that occuring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilkowsky Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 2 hours ago, keyser soze said: Pay attention to this story. Should be an interesting comparison and see how another school handles their situation... so far no mention of Title XI from OU, that's odd http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/21676086/oklahoma-sooners-rb-rodney-anderson-facing-rape-allegation You sincerely can't be holding up Oklahoma (a habitual NCAA rules violater) as someone SLU should follow their example. SLU is BETTER than Oklahoma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaLBErt Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 27 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said: You sincerely can't be holding up Oklahoma (a habitual NCAA rules violater) as someone SLU should follow their example. SLU is BETTER than Oklahoma. Really? SLU doesn't seem better than anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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