OT: Finally Some Good STL News

[bonwich]

Here are a bunch of the protesters that shut down West County Mall this afternoon. Clearly a bunch of "thugs" who have never done anything for the City and simply want to convict people regardless of the evidence. 

[willie]

1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

The problem is not one that is specific to StL or Missouri for that matter.  There is a state law  we have that is basically the same everywhere else which allows a policeman to take whatever action he/she deems necessary to protect themselves.  They only need to take the position that their life felt threatened even if the person has no weapon.  So, the police have been trained to do whatever they feel necessary to protect themselves regardless if the person who they are threatened by has a weapon or not.  Additionally they have been trained that once they draw their gun and feel the need to shoot then they should empty the clip even if the first shot disables the person.  This is why most of shootings result in a death - not like TV where they shoot once and hit the guy in the shoulder.  The question we as a society have to ultimately answer is are we OK with police basically having a license to kill - I really do not mean this be a statement - but in essence if the police can be the determining factor of whether they are threatened by someone regardless of the situation then these shootings will continue and the police will continue to be found not liable.  I realize that police need to be able to protect themselves but without them having to evaluate the situation they are allowed to take any action they want.  I know that sounds a bit of an overstatement but this is why we have seen videos of the police jumping out their car and going up to the suspect firing away virtually immediately.  Like I said,  we as a society have to decide what we are willing to accept regarding police behavior - if we are OK with the current situation then so be it, if not then we have demand appropriate changes.

This is THE issue. 

[jimbofive]

58 minutes ago, bonwich said:

Here are a bunch of the protesters that shut down West County Mall this afternoon. Clearly a bunch of "thugs" who have never done anything for the City and simply want to convict people regardless of the evidence. 

Lotta frogs catching flies in that fauxtoe.

Woof.

[STL Hoops Insider]

3 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Just out of curiosity, how many times has a white cop anywhere in the United States been convicted of killing a black man?

I can think of the Walter Scott murder. Not many others. Charges are rarely brought, it usually goes to some grand jury and they are given special instructions and then return a no true bill.  

[STL Hoops Insider]

1 hour ago, willie said:

This is THE issue. 

You are right. If you feel threatened before even approaching the suspect, what happened to calling for backup. Darren Wilson felt that someone charging from 50 feet away had to be gunned down, instead of retreating to his vehicle. 

[slu72 fan]

Enough already. Let's talk hoops. 

[majerus mojo]

Is going down to Purdue 28-3 at half good? (Thread title seemed decent enough) 

[LindellWest]

5 minutes ago, slu72 fan said:

Enough already. Let's talk hoops. 

We should put our many differences aside and  all just come together around the fact that Mizzou sucks.

[almaman]

4 hours ago, BigMouthBilliken said:

I live here because I go to school here. I volunteer at the HRC student run SLU clinic for people without insurance. I spend my money in this city. What have these "protestors" done? Not at work that's for sure. After I graduate this semester I will not be living in STL.

Weird I gave a co-WORKER a ride to the wharf for today's demonstration? She lamented the fact that they were misrepresented by the losers who are committing vandalism and other criminal acts. We'll miss you if you do indeed survive your time here.

[RiseAndGrind]

4 minutes ago, LindellWest said:

We should put our many differences aside and  all just come together around the fact that Mizzou sucks.

This is what I've been saying 

[almaman]

48 minutes ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

I can think of the Walter Scott murder. Not many others. Charges are rarely brought, it usually goes to some grand jury and they are given special instructions and then return a no true bill.  

The singer?

[JMM28]

Nothing will get some folks to turn on you like a cancelled U2 concert AND a cancelled Ed Sheehan concert. 

[STL Hoops Insider]

19 minutes ago, almaman said:

The singer?

 

19 minutes ago, almaman said:

The singer?

No, the one shot in his back several times from several yards away because the officer feared for his life.  The police dept believed the officer's story until a cell phone video released the truth.

[gobillsgo]

Every cop just needs to have a chest camera at all times. If I were a cop I'd definitely want one. 

A friend of mine's brother in law is a cop in Chicago area. They don't have the chest cams. He was responding to a call about shots fired and this guy takes off running.  So he chases him until the guy finally turns around and stops. Cop yells "hands up." The guy reaches behind his back and the cop runs up and tackles him.  Ends up the guy doesn't have a gun, but responds, "I wanted to see if you'd shoot me."   Point is, it would've been a justified shooting, but the cop would've been crucified for shooting an "unarmed man".  

 

Point is, if I'm a cop, I'm pushing hard for a camera on my person at all times. 

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, gobillsgo said:

Every cop just needs to have a chest camera at all times. If I were a cop I'd definitely want one. 

A friend of mine's brother in law is a cop in Chicago area. They don't have the chest cams. He was responding to a call about shots fired and this guy takes off running.  So he chases him until the guy finally turns around and stops. Cop yells "hands up." The guy reaches behind his back and the cop runs up and tackles him.  Ends up the guy doesn't have a gun, but responds, "I wanted to see if you'd shoot me."   Point is, it would've been a justified shooting, but the cop would've been crucified for shooting an "unarmed man".  

 

Point is, if I'm a cop, I'm pushing hard for a camera on my person at all times. 

I have no problem with your point regarding the cams but when I am not sure that all the police would agree with you.  Also, the situation you described above would have been a justified shooting.  The law would easily allow for the actions by the man was enough for the cop to feel threatened.  

[HoosierBilliken]

On 9/15/2017 at 4:18 PM, STL Hoops Insider said:

Bad news: the murder of another unarmed black person by law enforcement  again went unpunished.

Greetings.  I see the frustration and emotion in your posts, but do you want to bring back lynching?  We are supposed to "punish" people only if they are found guilty in a court of law based upon evidence.  Please read the 30 page ruling as it reveals why there was insufficient evidence for a criminal conviction. 

Smith's family has needlessly suffered because Smith decided to get involved in criminal activity leading up to his death.  Shame on him for putting himself in what could be a shooting situation.  Instead, he is in heaven...hopefully.     

Stockley was a West Point graduate, Iraq war hero, and St. Louis police officer.   These are among the most difficult things to be today.  Could you or I handle what they deal with on a daily basis?  No. 

The family received a settlement because St. Louis officials probably thought in a civil trial, where the burden is much less, a jury would rule against them.  Stockley is no longer a police officer.  I think this is the end of the story.  

 

19 minutes ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

No, the one shot in his back several times from several yards away because the officer feared for his life.  The police dept believed the officer's story until a cell phone video released the truth.

Here we have evidence of a police officer shooting a guy in the back and planting evidence.  For me, I'm not going to risk my life by committing crimes and running from the authorities who carry guns.  I trust no one.  They make mistakes. 

Romans 13:2-4 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.  For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 

[STL Hoops Insider]

2 hours ago, cheeseman said:

I have no problem with your point regarding the cams but when I am not sure that all the police would agree with you.  Also, the situation you described above would have been a justified shooting.  The law would easily allow for the actions by the man was enough for the cop to feel threatened.  

Philando Castille and Eric Garner were on camera, doesn't matter, if there is a possible way to get out of it, it can usually be found.  It's not a black vs white issue though.  It's police vs black. 

[brianstl]

10 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Evidence? Like when the judge says the gun that only had the officers DNA on it is the victims bevayse in his experience heroine dealers always have guns? Or saying because it didn't have to have the victims DNA to be his?

That was the state's expert witness that stated that in court.  The state's expert said it was in fact often the case.

 I question the verdict, but the prosecutor did an awful job.  The state's own witnesses disagreed with the prosecutor multiple times on key facts with the case they were trying to lay out.  When Antonio French said there was no delayed fifth kill shot as the prosecutor was contending as a key point, the state's case was really damaged.

[brianstl]

6 hours ago, willie said:

This is THE issue. 

And the big problem is a  couple of Supreme Court rulings established the current rules for police use of force.  Pretty difficult to change.

[HoosierBilliken]

5 minutes ago, brianstl said:

And the big problem is a  couple of Supreme Court rulings established the current rules for police use of force.  Pretty difficult to change.

Although I disagree with your contention that there was a problem with the Supreme Court rulings, you hit the nail on the head as far as this is the issue.  If people don't like the rules, change the law.  Everything else (riots, demonstrations) are a waste of time.

1 hour ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Philando Castille and Eric Garner were on camera, doesn't matter, if there is a possible way to get out of it, it can usually be found.  It's not a black vs white issue though.  It's police vs black. 

Consider this: the problem may be police vs. criminals that resist arrest (black, white, Hispanic, etc.).  This is not a racial issue.  Almost every situation you can cite is a criminal resisting the police.  Bad things happen, including mistakes, when people resist the police.  By law, the police can use force to arrest.  So, you, as a criminal resisting arrest, are relying on a human being to determine in a split second what level of force to use on you.  I suggest not putting yourself in that position.   

[HoosierBilliken]

44 minutes ago, brianstl said:

That was the state's expert witness that stated that in court.  The state's expert said it was in fact often the case.

 I question the verdict, but the prosecutor did an awful job.  The state's own witnesses disagreed with the prosecutor multiple times on key facts with the case they were trying to lay out.  When Antonio French said there was no delayed fifth kill shot as the prosecutor was contending as a key point, the state's case was really damaged.

Insightful post.  You did your research.  I don't know if the prosecutor did an awful job though.  He did not have much to work with.  The statement in the car was the best thing they had.

[STL Hoops Insider]

1 hour ago, HoosierBilliken said:

Although I disagree with your contention that there was a problem with the Supreme Court rulings, you hit the nail on the head as far as this is the issue.  If people don't like the rules, change the law.  Everything else (riots, demonstrations) are a waste of time.

Consider this: the problem may be police vs. criminals that resist arrest (black, white, Hispanic, etc.).  This is not a racial issue.  Almost every situation you can cite is a criminal resisting the police.  Bad things happen, including mistakes, when people resist the police.  By law, the police can use force to arrest.  So, you, as a criminal resisting arrest, are relying on a human being to determine in a split second what level of force to use on you.  I suggest not putting yourself in that position.   

A lot of these cases, it's not resisting arrest, because they were never given a chance to be placed under arrest. Tamir Rice never saw what hit him. John Crawford in the open carry state of Ohio, in the gun section of Walmart holding a gun they sell, is shot down. Philando Castille in Minnesota, another open carry state tells the officer in advance he has a legal firearm and is shot almost immediately afterwards with a child in the backseat.  It's definitely a police issue, but it seems to be happening disproportionately to people of color. And then when you see actual terrorists taken alive by law enforcement while unarmed minorities get gunned down its infuriating.

[gobillsgo]

6 hours ago, cheeseman said:

I have no problem with your point regarding the cams but when I am not sure that all the police would agree with you.  Also, the situation you described above would have been a justified shooting.  The law would easily allow for the actions by the man was enough for the cop to feel threatened.  

I agree on both. I don't know that all cops would want a cam, but I would, and I think it should be required. Protects the good cops and keeps the not as good ones accountable. 

Regarding the scenario, it absolutely would have been justified, but without the camera to prove it, it's just another "innocent, unarmed" man killed, with more rioting to ensue. 

[gobillsgo]

4 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Philando Castille and Eric Garner were on camera, doesn't matter, if there is a possible way to get out of it, it can usually be found.  It's not a black vs white issue though.  It's police vs black. 

Those were on cell camera... don't have access to the whole situation.  I'm not saying that the officers in those cases were innocent or guilty.  But with chest cams, you see EVERYTHING the officer has seen. Nothing is left out. 

If the camera is turned off for any reason, the assumption would be that the officer was doing something he didn't want on camera, and that should be punishable. 

[HoosierBilliken]

6 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

A lot of these cases, it's not resisting arrest, because they were never given a chance to be placed under arrest. Tamir Rice never saw what hit him. John Crawford in the open carry state of Ohio, in the gun section of Walmart holding a gun they sell, is shot down. Philando Castille in Minnesota, another open carry state tells the officer in advance he has a legal firearm and is shot almost immediately afterwards with a child in the backseat.  It's definitely a police issue, but it seems to be happening disproportionately to people of color. And then when you see actual terrorists taken alive by law enforcement while unarmed minorities get gunned down its infuriating.

I completely agree with you that it seems that way, but only due to the media coverage.  The facts say differently. 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/11/no-racial-bias-police-shootings-study-harvard-prof/

Black people aren't the only ones that have had problems with police.  Officers can be mean, but maybe it comes from being spit on, shot at, dealing with criminals every day, handling stressful situations, being asked to do the impossible, and then being unappreciated for it.  They are not robots.  There is a human being behind that badge and gun that has the ability to to become angry and make mistakes in using their power.  I try to be respectful and understanding of their position.