SLU Soccer 2017

[brianstl]

Just now, Tilkowsky said:

MLS is single entity - which won't change anytime soon.

Most if not all MLS teams have academies. 

High schools and church programs are not how the rest of the world develops players. The Academy system is how it is done.

If someone is good enough and has the money I bet they would find a  spot for you.

When you look at the U-17 USMNT team each one belongs to a professional club. That is a good thing.

There is not one player associated with a high school.

How many WC's did the high school church program system win? None.

The rest of the world uses the Academy system - it has just started in this country.

Not all academies charge like Scott Gallagher.

 

If you are going to run an academy system you have to run it like Europe and not as a single entity system.  The US system takes away the incentive for individual soccer clubs to innovative in scouting and development.

[brianstl]

2 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

If you want a good look at two MLS teams with good academy blueprints for other teams (yes I know MLS teams have academies already) look at FC Dallas and Atlanta United. They brought in sporting directors from large European clubs, with Atlanta bringing in Darren Eales, a former higher up at Tottenham. There is a reason the European academy model works. When competing with other countries where soccer is life, you have to adopt the same mentality. 

We are not running anything close to European academy system in this country.  To act like we are is ignoring the problem.  The set up in Europe gives everyone a reason to try develop their own players.  The church groups derided in an earlier post started some of the top clubs in Europe.  There is a reason for people across Europe to invest resources into developing soccer players.

There is no reason for a program like Gallagher to not charge a kid that needs development to become a good player in his age group.  The will wave the cost for a kid that is already good, but not the kid that isn't there yet.  There is no incentive for Gallagher to be innovative and take chances.  FC St Louis can't earn a promotion to the MLS and they can't recoup cost by generating transfer fees.

[Pistol]

1 hour ago, slu06 said:

 

Curious -  which 7?

With an eye to the future, I would say Wood, Pulisic, Yedlin, Arriola, , Acosta, are the only ones I'd care to see back from the squad last night (Jordan Morris wasn't on the roster last night, but is in that boat, too).

El Guzano, who will no doubt be the "elder" goal keeper going forward as we mix in younger guys (not saying he will automatically start). 

Bradley and Cameron will continue to get call ups b/c they are veterans, but are both on the wrong side of 30 to be part of the plan, in my book, going foward.

(Side note: Bradley is SO inconsistent and doesn't cover ground/provide bite like he used too; Cameron at center back over either of those scrubs last night, please).

Altidore should be done with the USMNT (de facto starter since he was 18 and... well...).

Also, why didn't we have Fabian Johnson on our bench instead of about everyone else?

Those five, plus Nagbe and Bradley, the latter being a bit of a stretch because he's 34 next time around. I'd use him more as a transitional captain over the next couple years.

Completely agree about Johnson, too.

[billikenfan05]

Ugh why must everyone politicize tragedies.

[Gremio14]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iVW09EEPYNk

This, more than anything else, is the reason we sometimes lose to teams like T & T, and, when it counts, almost always come up short against teams such as Brazil, Argentina, Italy and Germany.  

No question our top level soccer players are very good, even excellent, athletes;  the problem is our ELITE  athletes are not playing the game past age 15.  Hopefully  this situation will improve as national interest in soccer continues to rise, while  participation in football (especially at the youth level) and baseball falters.  

Would a "moved to Bayern academy at age 14"  OBJ have helped our cause yesterday....  Coaching matters to a point but, as a famous coach once stated: "Give me Jimmy's and Joe's over X's and O's any day of the week..."

[WUH]

2 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

 

Looking at that stadium makes me and should make every slu soccer fan furious with the SLU Athletic Department. 

Furious indeed!

How many other Men's Soccer programs could build a non-conference schedule as SLU does season after season?  25-50?  The program absolutely could be great again with the right coach and the right stadium.

I do not expect every elite player in the St. Louis area to seriously consider playing for SLU, but there was a time in which the stadium may have been a key consideration.  I doubt that is the case anymore.

[brianstl]

28 minutes ago, Gremio14 said:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iVW09EEPYNk

This, more than anything else, is the reason we sometimes lose to teams like T & T, and, when it counts, almost always come up short against teams such as Brazil, Argentina, Italy and Germany.  

No question our top level soccer players are very good, even excellent, athletes;  the problem is our ELITE  athletes are not playing the game past age 15.  Hopefully  this situation will improve as national interest in soccer continues to rise, while  participation in football (especially at the youth level) and baseball falters.  

Would a "moved to Bayern academy at age 14"  OBJ have helped our cause yesterday....  Coaching matters to a point but, as a famous coach once stated: "Give me Jimmy's and Joe's over X's and O's any day of the week..."

That is a cop out.  With the exception of Brazil, the US population is at least 4 times larger than all recent World Cup winners.  In the case of Spain and Argentina the population is almost 8 times larger.  We don't need the majority of elite athletes to choose soccer.   Athleticism is important in soccer, but having the right skill sets might be more important.  Messi is under 5'8' and doesn't have elite athlete speed.  

[HoosierPal]

Seven young players to keep an eye on for 2022.

Jesse Gonzales, Weston McKennie, Matt Miazga, Justen Glad, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Tyler Adams and Josh Sargent

[Delboy]

Darren Eales is the club president, The technical director is Carlos Bocanegra.

[WUH]

54 minutes ago, brianstl said:

That is a cop out.  With the exception of Brazil, the US population is at least 4 times larger than all recent World Cup winners.  In the case of Spain and Argentina the population is almost 8 times larger.  We don't need the majority of elite athletes to choose soccer.   Athleticism is important in soccer, but having the right skill sets might be more important.  Messi is under 5'8' and doesn't have elite athlete speed.  

The problem is not that our prospective players are quitting too soon.

The problem is that not enough of our prospective elite players are not starting early enough.

Messi would probably not be a world class player if he was born and raised in suburban St. Louis.

 

[Tilkowsky]

3 hours ago, brianstl said:

If you are going to run an academy system you have to run it like Europe and not as a single entity system.  The US system takes away the incentive for individual soccer clubs to innovative in scouting and development.

Agreed. But MLS is not going to go away from single entity any time soon.

The reason? Most MLS teams aren't making money. MLS doesn't want teams to fold.

That is why MLS usually requires a billionaire to be in most ownership groups. They want owners who have plenty of cash to sustain losses.

MLS teams still have an incentive to develop players - that is probably cheaper than signing an over the hill European as a DP.

DP's also need to go. They are potentially taking away spots away from young Americans.

[Tilkowsky]

3 hours ago, brianstl said:

We are not running anything close to European academy system in this country.  To act like we are is ignoring the problem.  The set up in Europe gives everyone a reason to try develop their own players.  The church groups derided in an earlier post started some of the top clubs in Europe.  There is a reason for people across Europe to invest resources into developing soccer players.

There is no reason for a program like Gallagher to not charge a kid that needs development to become a good player in his age group.  The will wave the cost for a kid that is already good, but not the kid that isn't there yet.  There is no incentive for Gallagher to be innovative and take chances.  FC St Louis can't earn a promotion to the MLS and they can't recoup cost by generating transfer fees.

There will not be pro/reg in MLS nor should there be.

How do you tell a franchise that paid 80 million dollars and above they will be going to a lower league?

[3star_recruit]

If prospective American elite players start playing 3 years later, they should come into their own three years later, correct? So where are the American born soccer players over 21 who are considered world-class players? I don't see any.

[NH]

5 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If prospective American elite players start playing 3 years later, they should come into their own three years later, correct? So where are the American born soccer players over 21 who are considered world-class players? I don't see any.

I don't think that translates. A player who develops later is less able to compete internationally with his peers of the same age, thus stunting his development.

[brianstl]

Just now, WUH said:

The problem is not that our prospective players are quitting too soon.

The problem is that not enough of our prospective elite players are not starting early enough.

Messi would probably not be a world class player if he was born and raised in suburban St. Louis.

 

More kids in the US start playing soccer year round at a younger age today than they did in the late seventies, eighties or early nineties.  Yet, somehow those years produced better national teams and more accomplished players in Europe than what we have done since.  That is the time period that produced Dempsey, Donovan, Ramos, McBride, Pope, Friedel, Reyna, Beasley, Keller, Wynalda, Cherundolo, Harkes, etc.. 

The 1994 World Cup was supposed to change everything for the better, but that hasn't happened.  The players that had most or all of their developmental years after that have been unable to produce better or equal results.

US Soccer on the men's side has become a slave to central planning and the wishes of the MLS.  Soccer which in most of the rest of the world is most democratic sport and where meritocracy rules for clubs isn't that way in the US.  In the US it is pro teams this is your level forever, if you want to play for a national youth team here is a list of club teams you have to play for to be considered, youth player you can't play for your high school team, etc..

We can say we want to follow the European model, but it is meaningless if we don't follow it all the way.  The reason the European model is successful is because of transfer fees and promotion regulation.  It gives programs all across the continent a reason to take seriously and to spend resources developing talent.  It gives smaller programs a reason to take a chance and spend time developing a late bloomer. That player might not ever payoff on the field for them for a long enough time period to justify the cost if not for those two things.

[Tilkowsky]

Promotion relegation doesn't work in MLS. Who is going to tell Arthur Blank of Atlanta United who paid 80 million dollars to get into MLS that he has to go to MLS 2?

Almost every MLS team has an Academy. So they are working on developing players.

MLS also needs to get rid of DP's. They are taking spots away from Americans.

[brianstl]

38 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

Promotion relegation doesn't work in MLS. Who is going to tell Arthur Blank of Atlanta United who paid 80 million dollars to get into MLS that he has to go to MLS 2?

Almost every MLS team has an Academy. So they are working on developing players.

MLS also needs to get rid of DP's. They are taking spots away from Americans.

Maybe the same person who told Shad Kahn that Fulham had to go to the Championship League after he paid $260 million for a Premier League team.

[Tilkowsky]

2 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Maybe the same person who told Shad Kahn that Fulham had to go to the Championship League after he paid $260 million for a Premier League team.

Shad Khan didn't pay a 100 million dollar expansion fee to get into the league.

Not that I am aware of.

Arthur Blank did.

 

[WUH]

1 hour ago, brianstl said:

More kids in the US start playing soccer year round at a younger age today than they did in the late seventies, eighties or early nineties.  Yet, somehow those years produced better national teams and more accomplished players in Europe than what we have done since.  That is the time period that produced Dempsey, Donovan, Ramos, McBride, Pope, Friedel, Reyna, Beasley, Keller, Wynalda, Cherundolo, Harkes, etc..

An interesting point about the players of yore and one that I would have to think about.

My point was not about the number of US players in organized leagues, but the frequency in which players are exposed to the game throughout their formative years.  I would say especially the informal game as played on the streets of Barcelona, Buenos Aires, Brasilia and so on.

[NextYearBill]

the best athletes in this country will never play soccer. 

[brianstl]

2 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

Shad Khan didn't pay a 100 million dollar expansion fee to get into the league.

Not that I am aware of.

Arthur Blank did.

 

Arthur Blank didn't pay $100 million.  His team cost him $70 million. 

None of that means US Soccer should operate a protection racket when it comes to the MLS being the only league that can attain Division 1 status.  It shouldn't be the job of US Soccer anymore to protect the investment of MLS owners.  Over 20 years was enough time.  MLS is currently a failure and is basically operating as a Ponzi Scheme right now. 

It would be best if US Soccer would open the market for Division 1 league recognition.  That would bring a flood of money from around the world into leagues like the NASL and the USL. Get the best people possible involved in owning and running teams and not just people who are foolish enough to but a MLS team.

[Tilkowsky]

1 hour ago, brianstl said:

Arthur Blank didn't pay $100 million.  His team cost him $70 million. 

None of that means US Soccer should operate a protection racket when it comes to the MLS being the only league that can attain Division 1 status.  It shouldn't be the job of US Soccer anymore to protect the investment of MLS owners.  Over 20 years was enough time.  MLS is currently a failure and is basically operating as a Ponzi Scheme right now. 

It would be best if US Soccer would open the market for Division 1 league recognition.  That would bring a flood of money from around the world into leagues like the NASL and the USL. Get the best people possible involved in owning and running teams and not just people who are foolish enough to but a MLS team.

70 million. Fine. Same question. Why would you pay 70 million to then possibly be relegated to MLS2. You wouldn't. At the expense of a team who hasn't paid the fee. Now I might get behind if a team who hasn't paid the fee gets promoted - they would pay whatever fee the MLS team paid as the MLS team who goes down.

If Atlanta United went down and STLFC was promoted. STLFC would pay Atlanta United 70 million. Plus would have to have an acceptable stadium.

The problem is what happens if STLFC can't pay the 70 million? Or, in STLFC they don't have an acceptable stadium. See the problem?

The English FA (US Soccer in England) certifies the Premier League as the top league in England I believe.

Is there a country that has multiple First Division's?

Spain. No. France. No. Italy. No. Germany. No.

I agree. MLS is a Ponzi scheme. But it is the only scheme out there so far.

I guess if someone in the world has enough money - you say it would come flooding in - make MLS an offer. Maybe the owners would want to cash out?

 

 

 

 

[WUH]

Billikens lose 4-0 to VCU.

The season may as well be over.

[Gremio14]

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/75266/us-soccer-bashing-overlooks-the-rise-of-a-promis.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=readmore&utm_campaign=17922&hashid=W-d_mNzJX4IxX4QamkSsk51MWWQ

I believe article sums up perfectly the current position of USA soccer.  

I also think Tilkowsky has it right when it comes to the MLS.  Promotion with a fee.  If unable to pay, no promotion.  An abbreviated version of this already exists in the lower levels of England soccer.  A team may win their respective division, but they do not achieve promotion unless they enjoy flood lights, sufficient seating, etc., whatever is required in the promotion parameters.  In many instances, due to these stipulations, the second or third place team at a certain level goes up rather than the winner.

Any the USA absolutely cannot support three first divisions.....no other nation in the world operates in this manner.

 

[Gremio14]

And none of this resolves the dilemma that is SLU soccer.  I was hoping the tie with Akron and defeat of Stanford bode well.  The hope was obviously futile...