Off-season talk

[thetorch]

Assist to turnover is a poor barometer for performance. There is a new stat poor pass/TOs that better shows a pgs value.

That said Mitchell and Jett's are lower and more acceptable because they finish at the rim. Their higher turnovers are a result of getting better shots inside at a much higher rate. Bishop doesn't go to the rim. So please don't compare Mitchell or Jett to Bishop in this case.

1.35 for a player like Bishop is solidly below average. Fact not a difference of opinion. Don't twist stats around to prove a point.

[slufan13]

Bishop vs Graves will be a very interesting decision by mid-January. Bishop will get his chance to prove himself. I'm not sure there's a sizable role for both Bishop and Graves so I'm interested to see how that plays out. Assuming Goodwin is your PG (if not in November, I expect him to be by February), I think it comes down to one of those two for the last spot in the backcourt. 

[BIG BILL FAN]

2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

if it makes you miserable im here, i will take great pleasure then in posting more and opining as much as possible.     i have done nothing but praise all the transfers and the freshmen over the last year, so as usual you are clueless.   but you just keep clinging to the crews regime and everything about it.   it ended on such a positive note with the last three seasons being the most miserable in billiken history.  i am sure there are plenty of us that will be glad when all evidence of that time is gone forever.  

Despicable treatment of the players wearing the Billiken Blue.  Trashing a player because you didn't like who recruited them is also pretty sad. By your own admission you are a bigot. These young men have done nothing wrong, and in fact have all shown the ability to help the current team.  I hope you have the courage to tell them and their parents how happy you will be to see them go.........

[hsmith19]

1 hour ago, TFord and TRavs said:

He will be the equivalent of Mcbroom in 2013-14, but much less of a role

This is probably the dumbest post in what started out a pretty dumb thread. Bishop is five or six inches taller than McBroom. What limited McBroom in the A10 was that he often just couldn't get his shot off because it was so slow and he was so short. He was on the precise other end of the mismatches slufan was talking about. The only thing they have in common is that they were good shooters sometimes called on to handle the point.

[billiken_roy]

16 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

Despicable treatment of the players wearing the Billiken Blue.  Trashing a player because you didn't like who recruited them is also pretty sad. By your own admission you are a bigot. These young men have done nothing wrong, and in fact have all shown the ability to help the current team.  I hope you have the courage to tell them and their parents how happy you will be to see them go.........

your reasoning and rhetoric gets more stupid by the post.    not sure where this little gem came from.    you are a strange, sad person if your only purpose here is to attack me with far reaching no basis statements like this.    seek help.  

[RiseAndGrind]

I think Bishop can be a good shooter - equivalent of an offensive spark plug that may harm the team if he's overexposed. I have no basis or analysis to back that up. It's just my "eye test".

We need a commitment soon to stop the stupid. 

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

The only guys Coach Ford has mentioned in regards to potential offensive productivity are Goodwin, AD, Bess and Bishop.  When he mentions Roby, he talks about "leadership" but doesn't say how that translates into offensive output.  When you look at his past stops, Coach Ford's bigs don't do a lot of scoring.  He puts the game in the hands of the guards. Coach Ford has had opportunities to describe his offensive expectations for players other than the four that I mentioned, but he hasn't.

Coach listed Roby as third on his list in the '8 seconds left' question on radio.  Now, the assumption is that Coach, in fact, listed the players in order, but perhaps he was just talking without considering this a true order. Probably reading too much into this single statement, as we all do with everything Coach says or doesn't say.  I also assume that if Bishop wasn't in his current thoughts on rotation, he wouldn't have included him in the remark.

The Fast Lane asked Coach "if there are 8 seconds left on the clock and you have the ball, who do you call the play for?"  He answered, in this order, Goodwin, AD, Roby, Bess and Bishop.

[billiken_roy]

12 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

I think Bishop can be a good shooter - equivalent of an offensive spark plug that may harm the team if he's overexposed. I have no basis or analysis to back that up. It's just my "eye test".

We need a commitment soon to stop the stupid. 

bishop is a good shooter.    i totally agree with your assessment of where he can be an asset to the billikens.   he comes in, goodwin, or bess or graves drive the lane, hit him when his man comes down to help on defense, he makes a couple of threes and then the opponent calls a timeout to change their focus.   bishop returns to the bench and awaits another turn later in the game.   mission accomplished.    used in small frequent doses he could be a fit for opponents.  

[hsmith19]

We still need some kind of official ruling on the "AD" nickname for Henriquez. It really effs with the whole initial tradition on here.

[Box and Won]

12 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

bishop is a good shooter.    i totally agree with your assessment of where he can be an asset to the billikens.   he comes in, goodwin, or bess or graves drive the lane, hit him when his man comes down to help on defense, he makes a couple of threes and then the opponent calls a timeout to change their focus.   bishop returns to the bench and awaits another turn later in the game.   mission accomplished.    used in small frequent doses he could be a fit for opponents.  

Stop being such a bigot, will ya?

[Pistol]

15 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

bishop is a good shooter.    i totally agree with your assessment of where he can be an asset to the billikens.   he comes in, goodwin, or bess or graves drive the lane, hit him when his man comes down to help on defense, he makes a couple of threes and then the opponent calls a timeout to change their focus.   bishop returns to the bench and awaits another turn later in the game.   mission accomplished.    used in small frequent doses he could be a fit for opponents.  

On this roster, his shooting might be his biggest asset. I just don't know if we'll see more than 12-15 minutes per game out of him.

[3star_recruit]

If the plan is to play Bishop 12-15 minutes, then there's really no need for Coach Ford mention him at all.  Yet he mentions him practically every time he talks about specific players in an interview.

[Pistol]

2 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If the plan is to play Bishop 12-15 minutes, then there's really no need for Coach Ford mention him at all.  Yet he mentions him practically every time he talks about specific players in an interview.

You've made this point repeatedly.

What I don't see is where bigger minutes from Bishop are going to come from.

[slu72 fan]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

i was somewhat shocked by the revelation yesterday that he's lost that much weight.   honestly i wouldnt have thought he had that much weight to lose as he carried his bulk very well leading one to believe it was mostly muscle.    the point being, i think your question is very much valid.   and it remains to be seen if he gave up some of that natural body strength for more speed and whether it was the right decision.   ford is excited about it though so one has to believe it is all good.   just another reason to be excited about the season.   

He lost the weight he gained weight after his surgery. I think his strength will be terrific. 

[3star_recruit]

40 minutes ago, Pistol said:

You've made this point repeatedly.

What I don't see is where bigger minutes from Bishop are going to come from.

Because you're thinking about the decisions you would make as the coach instead of the teams Coach Ford has built in the past.  Here's just an example off the top of my head: If Bess plays most of his minutes at the 4 and Goodwin spends 10 min a game at the 3, then there is 20 minutes a game for Bishop at the 1 and 2.

[hsmith19]

11 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If the plan is to play Bishop 12-15 minutes, then there's really no need for Coach Ford mention him at all.  Yet he mentions him practically every time he talks about specific players in an interview.

What makes you say a 12-15 minute guy shouldn't be talked about at all? Loe averaged 16 for the first tournament team. Glaze and Barnett were in that range on the later tournament teams.

[slufan13]

40 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If the plan is to play Bishop 12-15 minutes, then there's really no need for Coach Ford mention him at all.  Yet he mentions him practically every time he talks about specific players in an interview.

How many minutes does a player have to play in order to be worthy of a mention from the coach?

[TFord and TRavs]

1 hour ago, hsmith19 said:

This is probably the dumbest post in what started out a pretty dumb thread. Bishop is five or six inches taller than McBroom. What limited McBroom in the A10 was that he often just couldn't get his shot off because it was so slow and he was so short. He was on the precise other end of the mismatches slufan was talking about. The only thing they have in common is that they were good shooters sometimes called on to handle the point.

I was talking about his role

[Glorydays2013]

38 minutes ago, slu72 fan said:

He lost the weight he gained weight after his surgery. I think his strength will be terrific. 

exactly

[bonwich]

2 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

exactly

Hey, it's "off season talk," so I guess we can go anywhere with it. Anyway, Glorydays, this is in honor of your avatar.

 

[ACE]

2 hours ago, thetorch said:

Assist to turnover is a poor barometer for performance. There is a new stat poor pass/TOs that better shows a pgs value.

That said Mitchell and Jett's are lower and more acceptable because they finish at the rim. Their higher turnovers are a result of getting better shots inside at a much higher rate. Bishop doesn't go to the rim. So please don't compare Mitchell or Jett to Bishop in this case.

1.35 for a player like Bishop is solidly below average. Fact not a difference of opinion. Don't twist stats around to prove a point.

When the stats, which you originally brought up, turn out to not really support your argument... I guess the move is to then call that stat a "poor barometer" and proceed to more subjective measures. And then lecture others about twisting stats around to prove a point. 

[almaman]

57 minutes ago, hsmith19 said:

We still need some kind of official ruling on the "AD" nickname for Henriquez. It really effs with the whole initial tradition on here.

I'm for AH

[slufan13]

I think Bishop or Graves gets 18-22 minutes per game playing the 1/2 off the bench. I really don't know what to expect from Graves. The thing I keep going back to is that I don't see Ford bringing Graves in just to ride the bench. But Bishop is a more proven player and Bishop will have about 10 games to really earn his spot. I think there's a definite role for a backup PG/running mate for Goodwin. I just think there are two similar players going for that role and I think some have already anointed Bishop. And there are probably others who have already anointed Graves. My gut feeling says it'll be Graves but I don't see either guy truly fitting into the category of major offensive contributor. 

[billiken_roy]

7 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I think Bishop or Graves gets 18-22 minutes per game playing the 1/2 off the bench. I really don't know what to expect from Graves. The thing I keep going back to is that I don't see Ford bringing Graves in just to ride the bench. But Bishop is a more proven player and Bishop will have about 10 games to really earn his spot. I think there's a definite role for a backup PG/running mate for Goodwin. I just think there are two similar players going for that role and I think some have already anointed Bishop. And there are probably others who have already anointed Graves. My gut feeling says it'll be Graves but I don't see either guy truly fitting into the category of major offensive contributor. 

from a ppg standpoint, it would not surprise me to see bishop be more of a contributor simply because all indications are he is the better shooter.   our other weapons offensively make him a good chance to be an open target (opponent chooses their poison and doesnt want henriquez or goodwin to beat them) and thus will get opportunities.    if graves turns out to be the equal shooter, then he will win that battle of pegging order with bishop hands down but if graves is not a shooter, his contribution will have to come from his athleticism i.e. defense, and drives to the basket and that might not show to the stat watchers as much.   

[brianstl]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

If the plan is to play Bishop 12-15 minutes, then there's really no need for Coach Ford mention him at all.  Yet he mentions him practically every time he talks about specific players in an interview.

Who is going to be in 10-15 minute range out of the guards and 3's that Ford talks about if it isn't Bishop?  Roby? Goodwin? AD?  Bess? Johnson?  They all can't play over 20 minutes a game.  It gets even harder find minutes for everyone when Graves becomes eligible.  You only have 120 minutes total from those 3 spots.  

Add to that almost every season at OSU Ford rode his top 2 guards for 30+ mpg and I just don't see how all these minutes are there for everyone else.  Someone is going to get left out and I don't think it is going to be Goodwin and AD.  I think those two are good for 25+mpg.  Ford has probably tossed more praise on Bess in the off season than anyone, so I think we know he will get his minutes.  I put him at 25+ mpg.  The ability to play multiple spots helps Johnson and Roby(especially Roby's ability to guard the 1-3) .  That leaves this outsider looking at Bishop and wondering where he fits into the rotation.