SLU, Mizzou game talk thread

[brianstl]

3 hours ago, TFord and TRavs said:

The only reason I can see Jontay not reclassifying to 2017, is martin wanting to extend his time at mizzou. He might be worried that he will be F******* once the porters are gone all at once. 

If Jontay reclassifies to play this season, he would have to play two seasons of college basketball to be eligible for the draft. Reclassifying doesn't get you around the age minimum.

[TheChosenOne]

10 hours ago, brianstl said:

If Jontay reclassifies to play this season, he would have to play two seasons of college basketball to be eligible for the draft. Reclassifying doesn't get you around the age minimum.

I thought I heard he was older for his grade and would be able to go pro after his freshman season if he decides to go that route. Just checked, November 1999 birthday would put him at 19 during the upcoming 2018 draft calendar year. I really like his game, but I don't see him as a one and done type due to his more limited athleticism.

[Clock_Tower]

Well said.

I have pretty much moved on as well, if for no other reason, being the overbearing terms demanded of SLU for the privilege of playing Mizzou -- 2 games at Columbia and 1 in St. Louis; or 1 game at Mizzou Arena and 1 games the Ed Jones Dome or Scottrade, etc.  Home court makes for a huge advantage due to routine and comfort of playing in your regular home venue and should be a treat for students and loyal season ticket holders.  Making our guys play in an unfamiliar, spacious venue (Dome or Scott trade) where Mizzou fans can equally get choice seating and making SLU students and season ticket holders switch to off-campus venues to the Dome or to Scott trade is really a "neutral game" and should not be consider our "home game."  And to be clear, there is a no doubt that any game in Columbia would be a definite home Court advantage for Mizzou -- at Mizzou Arena.

[majerus mojo]

Would love to play Mizzou. If I could pick any 2 opponents they would be MU and Illinois, as I would get the most enjoyment out of watching us win. College sports should be all about rivalry games, give me as many as humanly possible. (Can't wait to hate VCU again!) And yea no city arenas, need a true home and home for these.. though I will settle for playing either at the NCAAs

Any other schools/reasons out there?

[Macallan 18]

3 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Well said.

I have pretty much moved on as well, if for no other reason, being the overbearing terms demanded of SLU for the privilege of playing Mizzou -- 2 games at Columbia and 1 in St. Louis; or 1 game at Mizzou Arena and 1 games the Ed Jones Dome or Scottrade, etc.  Home court makes for a huge advantage due to routine and comfort of playing in your regular home venue and should be a treat for students and loyal season ticket holders.  Making our guys play in an unfamiliar, spacious venue (Dome or Scott trade) where Mizzou fans can equally get choice seating and making SLU students and season ticket holders switch to off-campus venues to the Dome or to Scott trade is really a "neutral game" and should not be consider our "home game."  And to be clear, there is a no doubt that any game in Columbia would be a definite home Court advantage for Mizzou -- at Mizzou Arena.

Agreed.  I am completely over playing Mizzou.  Have been for years.  SLU PLEASE do not play Mizzou.  Do not give Mizzou the satisfaction of playing us.  

If they were smart they would have played us all along to help stay relevant in Saint Louis, but they are not that bright.

So many other great teams in the Midwest to approach.  Butler is awesome, they're not scared.  Wichita State was solid, they weren't scared.  Would love to see Marquette, Xavier, Creighton, Notre Dame, etc. and would not be surprised if we did see one or two of those in the future.

[billiken_roy]

I agree.   If they come begging tell them 5 year deal.   2 at Chaifetz one in their barn and 2 at Chaifetz.  If they don't like it, tell them to pound sand

[Old guy]

We are not going to play Mizzou unless Mizzou is convinced they are going to dominate us in their own territory. They lost their chance two seasons ago, Crews' last season as HC, when they could have done it, not so easy to do now. Personally I have no interest in playing Mizzou at all.

[Pistol]

Man, memories are short. Those three Mizzou games in 1999-2001 were three of my favorite SLU games ever. Our place, their place, and the Dome - perfect. Every one of them was a good, close, hard fought game. The atmospheres were great. Why anyone wouldn't want to do this again is beyond me.

[goonaha]

2 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Man, memories are short. Those three Mizzou games in 1999-2001 were three of my favorite SLU games ever. Our place, their place, and the Dome - perfect. Every one of them was a good, close, hard fought game. The atmospheres were great. Why anyone wouldn't want to do this again is beyond me.

Everyone likes to be internet tough guy and claim they don't care. If the series gets started again people will be excited. They would be fun games. Rivalries are good. Fairly simple concept in my mind. 

[Littlebill]

8 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Man, memories are short. Those three Mizzou games in 1999-2001 were three of my favorite SLU games ever. Our place, their place, and the Dome - perfect. Every one of them was a good, close, hard fought game. The atmospheres were great. Why anyone wouldn't want to do this again is beyond me.

+1

[brianstl]

Those games were great.  The last of them was 18 years ago.  No one in high school was born when they happened.  Mizzou was still a highly relevant basketball program and they didn't have have coach who planned on having the St Louis area as the base of recruiting strategy.

A lot has changed since then.  It just doesn't feel the same to me and I don't think it would really generate the buzz some think it would.  Hell, the Braggin Rights game has only sold out once in the last decade.

I see no need to give Mizzou Basketball a extra chance to become more relevant in the region.

[Pistol]

2 hours ago, brianstl said:

Those games were great.  The last of them was 18 years ago.  No one in high school was born when they happened.  Mizzou was still a highly relevant basketball program and they didn't have have coach who planned on having the St Louis area as the base of recruiting strategy.

A lot has changed since then.  It just doesn't feel the same to me and I don't think it would really generate the buzz some think it would.  Hell, the Braggin Rights game has only sold out once in the last decade.

I see no need to give Mizzou Basketball a extra chance to become more relevant in the region.

You're off by a couple years. The last one was my freshman year at SLU, December 2001. So it was less than 16 years ago and plenty of HS kids were alive at that time. Not that they can remember it, but still. I'm trying to make myself feel slightly younger.

The Braggin' Rights game attendance probably has more to do with the relative weakness of Illinois and Mizzou over the last decade than anything else, although I do think college basketball attendance in general has probably declined a bit in the same time span (I'll look this up later).

But there's no denying that both SLU and Mizzou are undergoing MAJOR turnarounds right now. This is the perfect time (not that there would've been anything wrong with playing it all along). It's not up to us whether Mizzou becomes more relevant or not. They're about to be pretty good, and they're recruiting the area hard and there's nothing we can do about that. What we could do is play them every year, build a rivalry, and for the generation of kids growing up in the region today, they become the two most interesting programs instead of programs they ignore. Marquette and Wisconsin and the culture they've built in that state is a good roadmap for this.

[bonwich]

The issue of the relative relevance of the two programs is ludicrous. It's not like some kid at Hazelwood East isn't aware of how Mizzou is playing during any given game of the season and is going to be swayed by a single game with us. 

The main thing is what we (SLU, not just MBMs) argued when we were relatively bad and they were relatively good, and then we became more-than-relatively good for a few years: It's a game that'll be good for local basketball awareness, and good for the city, and good for the state. (And good for us, as our home game will almost certainly be a sellout.)

Yeah, I can see quibbling about Chaifetz v. Kielvistrade (and pretty much demanding it be in Chaifetz). Right now we have good leverage to make it a home-and-away, Chaifetz-and-whatever Mizzou calls its arena these days. Get it going, and keep it going indefinitely. It'll quickly evolve beyond a simple game into an "event." 

[prebilliken]

31 minutes ago, bonwich said:

The issue of the relative relevance of the two programs is ludicrous. It's not like some kid at Hazelwood East isn't aware of how Mizzou is playing during any given game of the season and is going to be swayed by a single game with us. 

The main thing is what we (SLU, not just MBMs) argued when we were relatively bad and they were relatively good, and then we became more-than-relatively good for a few years: It's a game that'll be good for local basketball awareness, and good for the city, and good for the state. (And good for us, as our home game will almost certainly be a sellout.)

Yeah, I can see quibbling about Chaifetz v. Kielvistrade (and pretty much demanding it be in Chaifetz). Right now we have good leverage to make it a home-and-away, Chaifetz-and-whatever Mizzou calls its arena these days. Get it going, and keep it going indefinitely. It'll quickly evolve beyond a simple game into an "event." 

This is the best statement about this issue. Thread closed. 

 

[Macallan 18]

I'm not saying and I don't believe others are, that if a game between the two schools happened that it would not be a big deal.  It would be a big deal, and would create a lot of buzz.  When we last played it was a big deal and they were good games.  I and others against playing are speaking from a personal level.  I just can't stand Mizzou, their culture, etc. and would prefer not to play them.  There are a lot of other teams I would like to see us play.  With that said, if a future SLU / MIZ game is part of my season ticket package I'll go, but I hope it's not. 

[Pistol]

1 hour ago, bonwich said:

The issue of the relative relevance of the two programs is ludicrous. It's not like some kid at Hazelwood East isn't aware of how Mizzou is playing during any given game of the season and is going to be swayed by a single game with us. 

The main thing is what we (SLU, not just MBMs) argued when we were relatively bad and they were relatively good, and then we became more-than-relatively good for a few years: It's a game that'll be good for local basketball awareness, and good for the city, and good for the state. (And good for us, as our home game will almost certainly be a sellout.)

Yeah, I can see quibbling about Chaifetz v. Kielvistrade (and pretty much demanding it be in Chaifetz). Right now we have good leverage to make it a home-and-away, Chaifetz-and-whatever Mizzou calls its arena these days. Get it going, and keep it going indefinitely. It'll quickly evolve beyond a simple game into an "event." 

Well said.

As painful as it might be for some of us to admit it, the best situation for local basketball at the college level is both Mizzou and SLU being strong, and consistently strong. This would absolutely be a big-time event under those circumstances. Living in Cincinnati, it seems like everyone in town, no matter how casual or serious their fanhood, looks forward to the Xavier-UC game every year, and most of them pick a side. The game is a huge deal and elevates interest in both programs beyond the game itself.

[RiseAndGrind]

11 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Well said.

As painful as it might be for some of us to admit it, the best situation for local basketball at the college level is both Mizzou and SLU being strong, and consistently strong. This would absolutely be a big-time event under those circumstances. Living in Cincinnati, it seems like everyone in town, no matter how casual or serious their fanhood, looks forward to the Xavier-UC game every year, and most of them pick a side. The game is a huge deal and elevates interest in both programs beyond the game itself.

I'd prefer that SLU get really good and play a tough non-conference schedule with recognizable games while Mizzou falls deeper into irrelevance. 

[ACE]

23 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

I'd prefer that SLU get really good and play a tough non-conference schedule with recognizable games while Mizzou falls deeper into irrelevance. 

I used to really want that series back, but I'm now kinda with you on this one. I want to see a situation like Gonzaga, where they have built a national powerhouse, while the two BCS state schools have fallen into irrelevance. If we have sustained success it will open up scheduling possibilities. We'll get invited to more high profile tournaments and get stronger home/home series. The Butler home/home is a good start. Would like to get something going with Wichita State again. I'm not interested in begging on SPUMAC for our non-conference schedule... you never know when the next scandal or probation is gonna hit. There will be better options if we take care of our business. What Mizzou does is not tied to the health of our program.

[Box and Won]

I want to play UW-Marquette.

[goonaha]

14 minutes ago, Box and Won said:

I want to play UW-Marquette.

Do you also want to play the University of North Carolina at Duke?

[STL Hoops Insider]

Jontay Porter made the reclassification official about a half hour ago.

[Clock_Tower]

Do we need any further proof that you are not a SLU fan?

[Clock_Tower]

11 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Jontay Porter made the reclassification official about a half hour ago.

Do we need any further proof that you are not a SLU fan?

[Clock_Tower]

22 hours ago, goonaha said:

Everyone likes to be internet tough guy and claim they don't care. If the series gets started again people will be excited. They would be fun games. Rivalries are good. Fairly simple concept in my mind. 

Goonaha and Pistol

Nothing personal but I don't believe you have lived through all the bs about the series.  Yes, the basketball games themselves were great.  No, all the unreasonable demands by Mizzou, the backhanded compliments, the talking down to our program, drama, bs - call it what you want - by not only Mizzou alums/fans but also by the local media (most of whom are in the tank for Mizzou) was not great and frankly overshadowed the great games.

Pistol.

The X v. UC games and the Marq v. Wisc. games did not make the great rivalry.  Instead, the quality of the programs is what makes great rivalries.  When the rivals then get the opportunity to play, then the emotions flow b/c of the games.  As you know and in your neck of the woods, our friends at Dayton would play Cincy every year, and while the games were good, they never rose to the level of X v. Cincy due to the lack of quality by UD. Yes, the games were certainly better than the likes of Wright State and Miami OH (outside of the Ron Harper years) -- just like we would like to watch something better than Coppin State, Savannah State, etc.

Look.  There is a reason we did not get invited to the Big East --- SLU needs to kick up its sports programs.  We need to consistently produce good basketball programs and not have major let downs like the Jim Crews years and we need to be better than the Brad Soderberg years.  We also need the rest of the programs, from men's and women's soccer to baseball/softball to be strong year in and year out, to be fully funded and to be fully supported by the administration -- and not simply be a program only as good as the latest head coach.  SLU needs to get its act together - consistently - and not expect that scheduling Mizzou will replace this hard and expensive work.

And generally speaking, Mizzou is used to coming to St. Louis not only for recruiting but for fundraising and to reach out its alums and friends.  Mizzou is used to this with the Braggin Rights game where they come to St. Louis and are given 1/2 of the tickets for their recruits and big donors.  Even when we played in the Scottrade/Kiel, SLU only sold 1/2 to 2/3s of the seats - thereby leaving alot of tickets for Mizzou, and that was not enough for Mizzou.  Mizzou still demanded a game in the Dome.  By contrast, very few tickets were alotted to SLU at Hearnes - and never will be at Mizzou Arena.  And back then, when Scottrade/Kiel was our home (it is not anymore), even that was not enough for Mizzou. Following the 3 game series, Mizzou demanded future games in Scottrade/Kiel and in the Dome and said they would not play at Chaifetz..  And frankly, alot of SLU fans were willing to appease Mizzou.  I am not.  Even the great games on the court are simply not worth it.

 

 

 

 

[Old guy]

I just do not see it. This kid, Jontay, who is a very good basketball player, has lived all his life under the shadow of being second place to his older brother. Why does he want to continue being second to his brother in college instead of going on to another team and be the star there? The other thing that does not make sense to me is that by now the summer practice is ended or should be ended soon, will he be able to catch up before the season starts or is he coming into Mizzou thinking that he will come in and get minutes automatically because he is who he is? What is he thinking? Does this make sense to any of you or am I way off in this one?