2017-2018 Schedule

[Compton]

8 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

There is absolutely no value in us playing all 3 of these schools every year.  Honestly 2 is too many but it has happened and I guess it may happen again.  Bottom line is we need to schedule better opponents not just anybody.

However good the program and schedule get we're still going to schedule cupcake buy games, might as well keep them local to support area athletic programs, get butts in the seats at Chaifetz and get alumni of schools with strong local representation in the habit of going to/watching SLU games.

Indiana had back-to-back games against SIUE and SEMO last year. But I guess they're not on our level. 

 

 

[cheeseman]

10 hours ago, Compton said:

However good the program and schedule get we're still going to schedule cupcake buy games, might as well keep them local to support area athletic programs, get butts in the seats at Chaifetz and get alumni of schools with strong local representation in the habit of going to/watching SLU games.

Indiana had back-to-back games against SIUE and SEMO last year. But I guess they're not on our level. 

 

 

Those schools are not in Indiana's circle.  Which schools in the Indy/Bloomington area do they play every year?  We also need to play an upgraded schedule since we are not in the Big 10.  As far as buy games go - sometimes you are forced to play them because of the tournament you are in so you can get bigger names to play, sometimes you just have to fill your schedule out and a school like MST will always pull the "we have to play during Winter Break in StL but you have to play during school at Springfield card" as an example.  I also doubt seriously that any of the alums from these schools have ever gotten into the habit of coming to a Billiken game because they came to see their school play us unless they are just big basketball fans and then they will come anyway.  We have had this discussion over the years and there has never been a great ground swell for doing what you proposed annually but of course a person with 11 post would not know this - not your fault you came to the party late but understand that yours are not new ideas.

[JMM28]

11 hours ago, Compton said:

However good the program and schedule get we're still going to schedule cupcake buy games, might as well keep them local to support area athletic programs, get butts in the seats at Chaifetz and get alumni of schools with strong local representation in the habit of going to/watching SLU games.

I agree with your point somewhat. MoState is one I am not terribly interested in. They have put out a crap product the last decade and they have screwed SLU over on a series recently. 

SIUE and SEMO could be fine. No need to do a home and home with either. It would also cost less for those teams to be buy games versus a team from Texas or similar. Less travel, limited or no lodging expense, cheap teams. There is a good business reason to schedule those types of buy games, all else equal. 

All that said, SEMO and SIUE have been terrible in recent memory. Those 300+ RPI teams are cupcakes to avoid.If they could get to the level of competing consistently towards the top of the OVC, they would be great buy games to have on the schedule. 

[CBFan]

When we played Mo. State many alum show up to the games wearing their bear hair.  The point of Mo. State playing at Chaifetz and filling seats is valid now but I think that will change as this team improves that getting a seat for SLU MBB could be the toughest ticket to get in the St. Louis area.  As a fan I would enjoy beating down the bears every year vs North Carolina A & T, Lipscomb, etc...

[HoosierPal]

Just for conversational purposes, here are the top 10 teams according to games played v SLU.  I'd take any of them, yeah, including Drake and Bradley instead of NC A&T, Chicago State, Eastern Illinois, Samford and Sons, etc.

Drake 83

Cincy 78

Tulsa 74

Bradley 70

Louisville 67

Wichita State 64

DePaul 62

Memphis 58

SIUC 56

Marquette 54

Dayton is next at 53

(We have played our local Wash U team 63 times but they aren't on this list for obvious reasons)

 

 

 

[JMM28]

4 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Just for conversational purposes, here are the top 10 teams according to games played v SLU.  I'd take any of them, yeah, including Drake and Bradley instead of NC A&T, Chicago State, Eastern Illinois, Samford and Sons, etc.

Drake 83

Cincy 78

Tulsa 74

Bradley 70

Louisville 67

Wichita State 64

DePaul 62

Memphis 58

SIUC 56

Marquette 54

Dayton is next at 53

(We have played our local Wash U team 63 times but they aren't on this list for obvious reasons)

 

 

 

Except you're not comparing apples to apples. Those are all programs that would be home and home series. Each time you replace NC A&T with one of those, you lose a home game and associated game revenue. 

[kwyjibo]

14 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

Except you're not comparing apples to apples. Those are all programs that would be home and home series. Each time you replace NC A&T with one of those, you lose a home game and associated game revenue. 

The buy price and other game costs can exceed the cost of the game so you may "lose" the ability to lose money as well.

[JMM28]

23 minutes ago, kwyjibo said:

The buy price and other game costs can exceed the cost of the game so you may "lose" the ability to lose money as well.

Very valid point. But you also have to keep a magic number of home games to keep the season ticket holders investment worthwhile and investors happy. 

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, CBFan said:

When we played Mo. State many alum show up to the games wearing their bear hair.  The point of Mo. State playing at Chaifetz and filling seats is valid now but I think that will change as this team improves that getting a seat for SLU MBB could be the toughest ticket to get in the St. Louis area.  As a fan I would enjoy beating down the bears every year vs North Carolina A & T, Lipscomb, etc...

So you would be OK that the atmosphere that would be shown on TV locally is that MSt is like UNC or Duke - they travel well.  Not me, no need to make our home court look weak.

[cheeseman]

I fail to see how a buy game would cause you to lose money.  If you get 6K to the game which is not unrealistic at approx $25 per tix that is $150K.  Then you have the concessions - parking and food to add in.  I know a place like Duke might pay $250K for a buy game but I really do not think that is what we pay for a SEMO - it seems to me that somebody reported that we pay around $60 - 75K for our buy games - please correct me if I am wrong - if so then we still come out way ahead.  By the way I haven't even factored the seat licenses that are paid for some of the tix.

[CBFan]

1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

So you would be OK that the atmosphere that would be shown on TV locally is that MSt is like UNC or Duke - they travel well.  Not me, no need to make our home court look weak.

Our home court would not look weak if we are a good team and the post I was commenting on talked about playing regional teams that will draw in Chaifetz.  UNC and Duke are not coming to Chaifetz but they would draw very well.

[MusicCityBilliken]

A lot times we are stuck with high RPI low-level conference D1 schools is because of the early season tournaments we participate in. In order to get a P5 school on a neutral court you have to play some of this garbage.

[HoosierPal]

2 hours ago, JMM28 said:

Except you're not comparing apples to apples. Those are all programs that would be home and home series. Each time you replace NC A&T with one of those, you lose a home game and associated game revenue. 

I have no problem with that. I'd give up the SIUE home game for a H and H with DePaul, Marquette, Cincy or even Bradley.  Or dump, permanently, NCA&T, and get one of the others for H and H. Bring Cincy, Marquette, Memphis or Louisville here, and the attendance and game revenue for that game would make up for the lost home game the year before  (or after).  Five of our OOC games last season, with a new charismatic coach, drew less than 5000.   SIUE drew less than 3000.

In the past we have usually times 3 or 4 home and home rotating series on the schedule.  Last two years we had KSU, WSU, SIUC and SIUE. The first two and SIUE contracts were fulfilled, and we don't know if SIUE will be renewed. 

We know Butler and Houston are booked for next season.  Room for another one or two.

[Box and Won]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

SIUE drew less than 3000.

There was an ice storm that night.  

I have no problem with playing SIUE.  I don't even have a problem with playing them on a home-and-home basis.

And regarding buy games, I'd rather schedule SEMO or UMKC over NC A&T and comparable high-RPI cupcakes (UMKC's RPI was actually better than ours last year).

[almaman]

I like playing SIU_E. Good to have such a close road game every 2 years.

[cheeseman]

3 hours ago, CBFan said:

Our home court would not look weak if we are a good team and the post I was commenting on talked about playing regional teams that will draw in Chaifetz.  UNC and Duke are not coming to Chaifetz but they would draw very well.

I never said get Duke or UNC.  Apparently you were not at the game were there was near riot with the MSt fans moving into our student section to get closer to the game.  The game was played during winter break and RM was the coach - we were not weak then nor was our attendance that bad.  My point simply was we don;t get much benefit from playing those regional teams all the time here so if you want to play one then fine but lets not fill up on them.

[cheeseman]

2 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

I have no problem with that. I'd give up the SIUE home game for a H and H with DePaul, Marquette, Cincy or even Bradley.  Or dump, permanently, NCA&T, and get one of the others for H and H. Bring Cincy, Marquette, Memphis or Louisville here, and the attendance and game revenue for that game would make up for the lost home game the year before  (or after).  Five of our OOC games last season, with a new charismatic coach, drew less than 5000.   SIUE drew less than 3000.

In the past we have usually times 3 or 4 home and home rotating series on the schedule.  Last two years we had KSU, WSU, SIUC and SIUE. The first two and SIUE contracts were fulfilled, and we don't know if SIUE will be renewed. 

We know Butler and Houston are booked for next season.  Room for another one or two.

Don't look only at the attendance per say - we sell a certain number of tix even if they don't show because of your season tix base.  Your point is valid and I agree that those teams do not put any butts in the seats so why play them every year?  The other thing is that we have to play something like 18 home games or else they will have to drop the total charged for season tix - they did that one year and what was the point - they lost that revenue and got nothing in return.  You can schedule all the H and H you want as long as you end up with 18 games at home.

[CBFan]

1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

I never said get Duke or UNC.  Apparently you were not at the game were there was near riot with the MSt fans moving into our student section to get closer to the game.  The game was played during winter break and RM was the coach - we were not weak then nor was our attendance that bad.  My point simply was we don;t get much benefit from playing those regional teams all the time here so if you want to play one then fine but lets not fill up on them.

No I was not at that game, I understand your point 100 percent.  

[Old guy]

5 hours ago, cheeseman said:

I fail to see how a buy game would cause you to lose money.  If you get 6K to the game which is not unrealistic at approx $25 per tix that is $150K.  Then you have the concessions - parking and food to add in.  I know a place like Duke might pay $250K for a buy game but I really do not think that is what we pay for a SEMO - it seems to me that somebody reported that we pay around $60 - 75K for our buy games - please correct me if I am wrong - if so then we still come out way ahead.  By the way I haven't even factored the seat licenses that are paid for some of the tix.

Nope, and you also have not factored additional expenses like salaries to the people that work the food and beer concessions, the store, the ticket office, security, janitorial, the little golf carts used to get old folks back to the parking lot, the people that work at the parking lot, etc... Nor the  expenses of cleaning the crud left behind by the attendees, or whatever they pay (if anything for the half time entertainment they may provide). It may not sound like much but it mounts, also they have a fair number of ticket promo sales at $10 or so at the door, and they may have giveaway food and trinkets for the students attending the game and assorted prizes... You only appear to see the profits and not the expenses involved in doing a game at the Chaifetz.

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, Old guy said:

Nope, and you also have not factored additional expenses like salaries to the people that work the food and beer concessions, the store, the ticket office, security, janitorial, the little golf carts used to get old folks back to the parking lot, the people that work at the parking lot, etc... Nor the  expenses of cleaning the crud left behind by the attendees, or whatever they pay (if anything for the half time entertainment they may provide). It may not sound like much but it mounts, also they have a fair number of ticket promo sales at $10 or so at the door, and they may have giveaway food and trinkets for the students attending the game and assorted prizes... You only appear to see the profits and not the expenses involved in doing a game at the Chaifetz.

The costs that you have outlined will not eat up all the profit no matter how much you want to pad it.  Bottom line even if they broke even, the benefit of showcasing the team is worth it.  By the way, I was only ball parking stuff next time I will include a comprehensive spreadsheet for your benefit.

[Cowboy]

3 hours ago, cheeseman said:

I never said get Duke or UNC.  Apparently you were not at the game were there was near riot with the MSt fans moving into our student section to get closer to the game.  The game was played during winter break and RM was the coach - we were not weak then nor was our attendance that bad.  My point simply was we don;t get much benefit from playing those regional teams all the time here so if you want to play one then fine but lets not fill up on them.

-I was there, I don't remember a near riot, there was an uproar on this board after the game but I don't remember a near riot at the game, am I forgetting something on this?

[For-DaLove]

1 hour ago, Cowboy said:

-I was there, I don't remember a near riot, there was an uproar on this board after the game but I don't remember a near riot at the game, am I forgetting something on this?

You aren't forgetting. There wasn't a near riot.

Cheeseman is slightly wrong on our attendance as well. It was the 2009-2010 season. The attendance for the game against Missouri State was 2,000 people higher than most of our home non-conference games that year. With that being said, the huge Missouri State showing wouldn't have been noticeable if it wasn't for the blunder of allowing them to sit in our student section.

[ARon]

We should play SIUE every year, period.

And I'd be happy to see our buy games be regional schools vs low league school with no connection to the area. To not play local opponents just makes us hypocrites when we complain Miz is scared to play us.

And for those of you who think the only thing keeping us from having a home and home with Marquette or Cincy is that our schedule is already full because of games with the likes of MoSt.........you don't understand how these things work.

[ARon]

Just now, For-DaLove said:

You aren't forgetting. There wasn't a near riot.

Cheeseman is slightly wrong on our attendance as well. It was the 2009-2010 season. The attendance for the game against Missouri State was 2,000 people higher than most of our home non-conference games that year. The huge Missouri State showing wouldn't have been noticeable if it wasn't for the blunder of allowing them to sit in our student section.

No near riot.  Most people had a good time. I'm sure concessions made a lot more $$ that night than they would have against South Texas St.

'05 almost got in a fight and kicked out but that wasn't exactly a rare occurrence.

[kmbilliken]

34 minutes ago, ARon said:

We should play SIUE every year, period.

And I'd be happy to see our buy games be regional schools vs low league school with no connection to the area. To not play local opponents just makes us hypocrites when we complain Miz is scared to play us.

And for those of you who think the only thing keeping us from having a home and home with Marquette or Cincy is that our schedule is already full because of games with the likes of MoSt.........you don't understand how these things work.

Why should we play SIIE every year? There are a bad team. If they want to come in as a buy game, fine. No home and home. Get a home and home with a Valley team like Illinois State or Bradley. Murray State would be good. No SIUE.