FInal Roster? Potential line-ups thread

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, slufan13 said:

Here's my prediction.

- The rotation in November will be different (and bigger) than the rotation in February.

- Talented players will end up sitting on the bench late in the season because we'll actually have depth.

- The freshmen may struggle to adjust in the first two months of their careers.

- The transfers may need time to shake off some rust.

- Bishop and probably Welmer may also need time to shake off rust.

- I think basically everyone will have a chance to prove themselves at some point and Ford will look to settle on 8-9 guys by the time we get 4-5 games into the conference season.

- People will come here with reports on how players look in summer workouts. At some point, virtually every player will get a positive review. Most will end up being wrong but the board will still be in a frenzy over the reports.

It's basically impossible to predict that rotation because there are so many unknowns. But since it's a message board and it doesn't actually matter if you're right or not, here's my guess for the 8-9 man rotation that Ford prefers:

Guards: Goodwin, Henriquez, Roby, Graves. I think the first 3 are guarantees. Henriquez and Roby can probably both slide over to play the "3" in guard heavy matchups. Bishop will get his chance to prove himself but I think Ford brought in Graves for a reason. I think Bishop is a good player, but one who needs the ball in his hands and I'm not sure he'll get enough minutes/opportunities to do so. 

Wings: Bess, Johnson. Both could probably play the "4" if called upon.

Bigs: French, Foreman, Welmer/Anthony (depending on matchups). I think French is the guarantee. Foreman is also a guarantee assuming he's healthy. I think he's been underrated on this board. I think Welmer's skillset is important and unique but I'm not sure how much Ford values a stretch 4. I also don't think Ford brought in Anthony to just be a practice body (Santos already accomplishes that). All that said, assuming Welmer is healthy (at some point), I think he sees time as the final big and can help space the floor for guys like Goodwin, Bess, and Johnson to drive and kick to Henriquez, Roby, etc. 

Very good post and hard to argue with anything. Your third point on freshman typically struggling and your last point saying French is a guarantee somewhat contradict each other.  But if you are talking about the final 1/3 of the season, I agree that French could be our primary power player. 

I would divide the guards up into Point Guards and then Wings.  Ford stated in an interview he will have point guard by committee, and specifically named Goodwin, Roby and Bishop as guys who will 'run the offense'.  The two not running the offense at the time can easily slide to shooting guard/wing.  I think we have a large number of wing possibilities, including the three mentioned, AD, and Johnson. 

Bess played the Power Forward position for MSU in his 13 starts in 15/16.  So you might see him either as Wing or Paint Player.

I do think it will be longer than 4-5 games before Ford settles on rotations.  Maybe by conference, or into conference, before it is settled.  Johnson didn't start until the 4th game of the Conference Schedule last season.  Players coming back from injury, players getting injured, Graves becoming eligible, all put variables into the equation.

[slufan13]

1 minute ago, HoosierPal said:

Very good post and hard to argue with anything. Your third point on freshman typically struggling and your last point saying French is a guarantee somewhat contradict each other.  But if you are talking about the final 1/3 of the season, I agree that French could be our primary power player. 

I would divide the guards up into Point Guards and then Wings.  Ford stated in an interview he will have point guard by committee, and specifically named Goodwin, Roby and Bishop as guys who will 'run the offense'.  The two not running the offense at the time can easily slide to shooting guard/wing.  I think we have a large number of wing possibilities, including the three mentioned, AD, and Johnson. 

Bess played the Power Forward position for MSU in his 13 starts in 15/16.  So you might see him either as Wing or Paint Player.

I do think it will be longer than 4-5 games before Ford settles on rotations.  Maybe by conference, or into conference, before it is settled.  Johnson didn't start until the 4th game of the Conference Schedule last season.  Players coming back from injury, players getting injured, Graves becoming eligible, all put variables into the equation.

I agree with you on the rotation. I meant to say 4-5 games into A10 play before the rotation is settled. 

[slu72]

Oops, I left out one important player in my 8 man rotation, Johnson. I really think he will challenge a lot of players for minutes at the 3 and 4. Just makes the picture a little more confusing but in the right way, hopefully a lot of talent competing for minutes. That always makes teams better. This upcoming season should be fun to watch just to see how all the pieces fit together. Sooooo different from the Dead to Me years, where it was a hodge podge of lesser talents who could be yanked after one mistake.

[STL Hoops Insider]

I don't want Jackson playing any 3 at all.

[Quality Is Job 1]

17 minutes ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

I don't want Jackson playing any 3 at all.

Who's Jackson?  If you mean Johnson, then I think we can all see why you're no longer in coaching.

[STL Hoops Insider]

2 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Who's Jackson?  If you mean Johnson, then I think we can all see why you're no longer in coaching.

You know I meant Johnson. That's who the original post was about. What are you trying to say about coaching?

[Quality Is Job 1]

3 minutes ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

You know I meant Johnson. That's who the original post was about. What are you trying to say about coaching?

If you don't think Jalen Johnson should ever play at the 3-spot, then your evaluation is suspect is what I'm saying.

[STL Hoops Insider]

Him not playing the 3 is my opinion. Your opinion is obviously that he should. We can disagree without you calling my evaluation suspect. They are both opinions, not fact.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Coaching deals a whole lot with "opinion" and evaluation; it's rarely cut-and-dried.  Plenty of coaches have left or been forced out of the game or to a lower level because their evaluation processes didn't measure up.  It didn't take me long to figure out that I'm not cut out to be a (good) coach!

[HoosierPal]

16 hours ago, slu72 said:

Oops, I left out one important player in my 8 man rotation, Johnson. I really think he will challenge a lot of players for minutes at the 3 and 4. Just makes the picture a little more confusing but in the right way, hopefully a lot of talent competing for minutes. That always makes teams better.

Coach Ford played Johnson at the 'classical 3, 4 and, for a limited amount of time, the 5' last season, but at the wing 3 and PF 4 most of the time.  He will continue to be a nightmare for opponents at the wing.  He does need to improve his handle so that he is more effective at penetrating. If you recall, he had a number of turnovers when he was dribbling in traffic in the lane. His man defense did pick up last season to where he was adequately guarding out on the wing.  Fords propensity for playing a zone makes that issue easier for Johnson.  In a 1-3-1 or a 2-3, he would play one of the outside zones at either the 3 or 4.

Since Coach Ford has played him on the wing before, no reason why he won't play him again next season. With French, Foreman, Bess, Anthony and Welmer all Paint Players, no reason not to put him on the wing.

[3star_recruit]

I don't anticipate the dribble drive ever being a strong point of Johnson's game.  He has average foot speed for a 3. I think he'd be better working on his post up game.  There's lot of 6'4 guys playing the 3 in the A10 that he can back down and shoot over the top of.

[HoosierPal]

16 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I don't anticipate the dribble drive ever being a strong point of Johnson's game.  He has average foot speed for a 3. I think he'd be better working on his post up game.  There's lot of 6'4 guys playing the 3 in the A10 that he can back down and shoot over the top of.

Ya gotta think that improving his dribbling in traffic was high on the list Coach gave Johnson to work on during the summer. 

[STL Hoops Insider]

I want Foreman and Johnson getting most if the minutes at the 4, with possibly Bess sliding over. I see Anthony and French getting minutes at center. I see Weller being the odd man ouy, but capable of playing either position when the need arises or other guys just can't make shots. With Bess, AD, and Roby, I see no reason for Johnson to ever play the 3.

[moytoy12]

12 minutes ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

I want Foreman and Johnson getting most if the minutes at the 4, with possibly Bess sliding over. I see Anthony and French getting minutes at center. I see Weller being the odd man ouy, but capable of playing either position when the need arises or other guys just can't make shots. With Bess, AD, and Roby, I see no reason for Johnson to ever play the 3.

Of the players you mentioned, I suspect the following roles:

Roby - 1/2

AD - 2/3

Bess - 3/4

Johnson - 3/4

French - 4/5

Foreman - 4/5

Welmer - 4/5

Anthony - 5

I think there will be plenty of minutes for Johnson at the 3.

[Old guy]

All I can say is that it is looking good for next year. And really, after last season, we all deserve to dream and enjoy our dreams about next season.

[TFord and TRavs]

I think foreman being called a better Reggie is an understatement. I've said it too since that's what I've heard, but he did lead a B10 team in rebounds from his slu bio 

[majerus mojo]

1 hour ago, TFord and TRavs said:

I think foreman being called a better Reggie is an understatement. I've said it too since that's what I've heard, but he did lead a B10 team in rebounds from his slu bio 

Absolutely. He is the transfer flying the most under the radar, I suspect due to his injuries last year and not being able to practice as much as the others? Foreman and French could be terrors down low 

[almaman]

5 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Ya gotta think that improving his dribbling in traffic was high on the list Coach gave Johnson to work on during the summer. 

He doesn't drive come or hell or high water hardly ever. That's just what we've been asking for from Miles to Hines is don't drive in like god with 3 guys in front of you. I think he's smart enough to not force it, if there are 3 defenders right in front of you you have 2 guys free so pass or as JJ does rather well pull up and shoot over them.

[almaman]

Foreman and French could be terrors down low>

Especially if they're on the down-low

 

Happy Memorial Day to all to which it applies which I'm guessing is low too

[TFord and TRavs]

2 hours ago, almaman said:

Foreman and French could be terrors down low>

Especially if they're on the down-low

 

Happy Memorial Day to all to which it applies which I'm guessing is low too

Memorial Day is for the service members who paid the ultimate sacrifice. Veterans Day is for all current and former service members. 

[RiseAndGrind]

On 5/26/2017 at 7:14 PM, Quality Is Job 1 said:

If you don't think Jalen Johnson should ever play at the 3-spot, then your evaluation is suspect is what I'm saying.

With the stealth burn. Nice.

[STL Hoops Insider]

Playing the 3 takes away the effectiveness of every tool he has. If he play that spot at all it's because we would have limited bodies during first semester with Graves sitting and others recovering from injuries.

[TFord and TRavs]

An interesting note Re: Bishop's med redshirt. It's great he got it. Yesterday WVU transfer to NcState Terry Henderson lost his appeal for a 6th year from a medical redshirt season after playing only 7 min that season. Ford must have some good strings with the NCAA. This might show Bishop that it won't be worth it to transfer even if he does lose minutes. Just something to throw out there.