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FInal Roster? Potential line-ups thread


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Of Roby is starting you're either playing really small with Bess at the 4, which I'm okay with or one of the newcomers Goodwin, Adonys, or DJ didn't pan out, which is bad. If hate to ask a senior to a 6th man role, but it would be best and the lineups are flexible enough that he could sub for anybody. It would be easier of I knew whether Ford wants to plays a traditional lineup with 2 bigs or 4 perimeter players. If its 2 bigs them Foreman can play his natural 4 position with either French or Anthony at center.

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Roby will be starting at the beginning of the year.  The thing Roby has going for over Bess is that he can help with the ball handling duties and help run the offense.  ThAt is important when you will be starting a freshman at PG who is not a prototypical PG.  The starters at the beginning of the season will be Goodwin, AD, Roby, French and Foreman.

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I think determining the starters is really hard, and kind of inpractical, as they may not play all that many minutes here is my expected minutes breakdown: 

henriquez 30 minutes (split as the shooting guard and small forward)

roby 30 minutes (split between shoooting guard and point guard)

bishop/graves/hines 20 minutes (point and small amount of shooting guard)

bess 20 minutes (split between small forward and power forward)

goodwin 20 minutes (split between the point, shooting and small forward positions, though in time more of a point)

johnson 20 minutes (power forward)

welmer 20 minutes (power forward and center)

foreman 20 minutes (power forward and center)

french/anthony 20 minutes (power forward and center).

Note: I think French had the ability to eventually play the small forward position, but not this year.  Also, French and Graves are the biggest question marks.  French could be a beast that you can't keep off the floor. Graves could earn more minutes at point guard.

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21 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Roby will be starting at the beginning of the year.  The thing Roby has going for over Bess is that he can help with the ball handling duties and help run the offense.  ThAt is important when you will be starting a freshman at PG who is not a prototypical PG.  The starters at the beginning of the season will be Goodwin, AD, Roby, French and Foreman.

Tom Izzo said Bess can play pg. Izzo knows saot about college basketball 

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13 minutes ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Tom Izzo said Bess can play pg. Izzo knows saot about college basketball 

You would think a guy that Izzo thought good play every position beside center would have averaged more than 11 mpg game for Izzo.

I really like Bess.  He may even be a starter before conference play starts.  Roby just offers something that Bess doesn't when you are trying to put your star recruit in the best position to succeed at the start of the season.

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9 minutes ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Toby offers nothing that Bess doesnt. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing

Except for experience playing point guard, experience shooting close to 40 percent from deep on the season, all around experience playing as a guard.  You know.

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1 hour ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Toby offers nothing that Bess doesnt. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing

Did we sign a new player Toby?  Because no one, nothing, nothing suggests that a career 18% three point shooter (Bess) is superior behind the line to a career 39% three point shooter (Roby). Nothing. Nothing. Your ignorance of the game is showing. 

 

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1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

Did we sign a new player Toby?  Because no one, nothing, nothing suggests that a career 18% three point shooter (Bess) is superior behind the line to a career 39% three point shooter (Roby). Nothing. Nothing. Your ignorance of the game is showing. 

 

His sample size shooting the 3 is too small. One year I believe he was just 1/9 from three. I don't see Roby shooting any better against Big Ten defenses or even able to get his shot off. Bess is a far superior player. If you want to say Roby has more game experience in the same system, that's fine. And for the saje of your argument, even if Roby continues to shoot well and Bess struggles Shooting, his athleticism, defense, first step and ability to finish with contact still put Bess on the floor ahead of Roby. Roby had a breakout year and we were still awful, remember that. I want the Crews crew playing spot minutes.

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Bess will play a lot because he will be one of the most athletic players in the A10. I hope we don't take for granted how talented we are going to be. Jalen Johnson will probably come off the bench and he's a guy who I expect to be all-conference by the end of his career at SLU.

Buckle up, boys. 

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Not knocking Roby and I appreciate him sticking it out through bad years with limited bodies. I just think if we want to be better than under the Crews years, the Ford recruits should get the majority of the minutes. I don't want to start a senior just out of loyalty, because the transfers came in to play bigger roles.

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1 hour ago, For-DaLove said:

Bess will play a lot because he will be one of the most athletic players in the A10. I hope we don't take for granted how talented we are going to be. Jalen Johnson will probably come off the bench and he's a guy who I expect to be all-conference by the end of his career at SLU.

Buckle up, boys. 

IMG_0041.GIF.278cf1af36f6dab3d1cf444d19e4122b.GIF

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2 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Not knocking Roby and I appreciate him sticking it out through bad years with limited bodies. I just think if we want to be better than under the Crews years, the Ford recruits should get the majority of the minutes. I don't want to start a senior just out of loyalty, because the transfers came in to play bigger roles.

Except for the fact that you knocked Roby.  You couldn't have been more clear about it.  Bess and Roby bring different things to the table.  It doesn't take an assistant NAIA coach to understand that.

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People, I read this thread and see the expectations rising to the clouds for next season. We may be right about the expectations in some regards, for example we have possibly the best talented team the Bills have ever seen (of course there may be some room for disagreement there), and Ford plus his staff are not passive pushovers. That said, and before we let our expectations dictate what we think of the coach and team when they start playing next year (like the fans at OK State did), we need to keep in mind some reality.

First, no one in the team walks on water, at least not by himself. Next season, like all seasons, will be a team effort. How the team plays together will determine success or failure.

Second, the team (the coaches and players) have a lot of work to do blending the different capabilities and strengths of the many new players (to the team) into a workable unit. This is of course preferable to playing each person on his own, as in a neighborhood free for all brawl like game. Our success will depend on how well the team works together as a team, not upon the individual stars hot dogging around.

Third, when the team gets to play as a unit, it is entirely possible that hot dogging, full court breakouts and dunks will be perhaps more muted that what expectations lead many to believe. The fact that we have the capability does not mean we should use it willy nilly or let it get out of control.

Finally, Crews had some talent in his teams (Malik, Yacoubou, Carter) which he never ever had the ability to inspire or to make play as a team... Of course, Crews and his team were bad because the staff could not recruit. However, whenever they got, by whatever reason, some player with a higher level of talent they could never get him blended into a team effort that made sense. Bad recruiting, wasted talent (not that they had overwhelming levels of talent in the team), and lack of effective team play, did the team in. 

From here on it is up to Ford and his staff to forge the talent we have obtained by excellent recruiting into a winning team. I have every expectation he will do so, but this may not be done overnight or without some degree of internal friction within the team. Someone has to sit on the bench while 8 or 10 people play most of the game. Our fate depends upon the team he creates and how well individuals within the team will accept bench time and team playing. 

What I want to see next year is a solid winning season, any flashy plays from individual players will be an extra added bonus when we get them. I am writing this because I think the OK State issues with Ford were caused by excessive expectation levels. Now it is the time to get the team together and look forward to having a winning team next season, not the time to let our expectations raise to the clouds only to be disappointed when we do not get invited to NCAA. 

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10 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

His sample size shooting the 3 is too small. One year I believe he was just 1/9 from three. I don't see Roby shooting any better against Big Ten defenses or even able to get his shot off. Bess is a far superior player. If you want to say Roby has more game experience in the same system, that's fine. And for the saje of your argument, even if Roby continues to shoot well and Bess struggles Shooting, his athleticism, defense, first step and ability to finish with contact still put Bess on the floor ahead of Roby. Roby had a breakout year and we were still awful, remember that. I want the Crews crew playing spot minutes.

You have moved the goal posts pretty quickly.  Your original comment was "Toby offers nothing that Bess doesn't.  Nothing, nothing, nothing."  Now you are well, maybe Roby is a good shooter. Roby is also a far superior FT shooter to Bess (70% v 53%).  In crunch time, game on the line, Bills need points, Roby is on the floor.  He can score.

It appears I am knocking Bess, but I am criticizing you and your talent evaluation, not Bess'. I support all the Billiken players. You should actually watch the kids play before you spout off.

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11 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Izzo said he could play it in an interview. I trust his judgement.

Link please.  Or did you make this up too.  Bess started at PF a few games his sophomore year, until he found the bench.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2015/11/21/michigan-state-spartans-power-forward-javon-bess/76161832/

You will also read where Izzo states Bess needs to improve his FT shooting, something Roby is quite good at.

 

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10 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

His sample size shooting the 3 is too small. One year I believe he was just 1/9 from three. I don't see Roby shooting any better against Big Ten defenses or even able to get his shot off. Bess is a far superior player. If you want to say Roby has more game experience in the same system, that's fine. And for the saje of your argument, even if Roby continues to shoot well and Bess struggles Shooting, his athleticism, defense, first step and ability to finish with contact still put Bess on the floor ahead of Roby. Roby had a breakout year and we were still awful, remember that. I want the Crews crew playing spot minutes.

Are you suggesting that had we removed Roby from last years team and inserted Bess instead we wouldn't have been awful?

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