Tilkowsky Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, brianstl said: IKEA didn't get $30 million from the city to buy the land. IKEA hasn't even got close to the $37.1 million they will get from the TIF. The money will be collected in sales taxes over years. If IKEA moves the City doesn't get stuck with a bill. IKEA just stops getting to keep a portion of the sales tax they collected in the City. The city of St. Louis provided $37.1 million in tax increment financing subsidies for the construction of the Ikea store, an $80 million project, plus $30 million spent to acquire the land. The city said the store would generate $250,000 in new taxes for the city annually. Copy/pasted from the article you provided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 8 minutes ago, brianstl said: You have The Hill, The Grove, South Grand, Zoo, Science Center, Botanical Gardens, a Mercedes dealership, a Chevy dealership, Fred Weber Material (this is probably a big generator), Barnes hospital complex, SLU hospital and tons of smaller scale stuff, St. Louis MSA total had most recent annual GDP numbers of $150B. So for eight months, that would be $100B. That doesn't really wash with sales of $1.35B in a single ZIP code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilkowsky Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Has anyone thought of MLS playing at Busch Stadium? NYCFC is in their third year of playing in the Bronx at Yankee Stadium. The field there isn't wide enough but MLS allows. I assume that Busch is wide and long enough since a USMNT WC Qualifier was held there. That might give Edgerly and Kavanaugh a chance to save up some money to build and fund their own stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 21 hours ago, TheChosenOne said: I think most people would agree with that first part, but aren't the issues with the city more due to the lack of quality leadership in the city of St. Louis than people who live in the county? I think a lot of these discussions end up in arguments because of some of this stereotyping (on both sides). It just seems odd as someone who has lived in the city and now lives in the county how there is kind of this rivalry between city vs. county residents. Here's another dirty little secret: The true "leadership" in the metro area is by and large invisible to the general public. The RFT just posted an interesting set of research on the makeup of the football ownership group. http://www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog/2017/03/30/st-louis-stadium-ownership-group-has-big-money-and-no-city-residency Go a step beyond that. There's a private group in town that consists of roughly 25 CEOs of the largest corporations in the area. Do you ever see or read anything about them? Who's on this group? Do they report to the public? This kind of stuff feeds off of the local civic and governmental fragmentation, because no single municipality or regional government entity has any real political capital, and, as I said earlier, when megaprojects are being negotiated, the smartest people at the table aren't representing the taxpayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Tilkowsky said: Has anyone thought of MLS playing at Busch Stadium? NYCFC is in their third year of playing in the Bronx at Yankee Stadium. The field there isn't wide enough but MLS allows. I assume that Busch is wide and long enough since a USMNT WC Qualifier was held there. That might give Edgerly and Kavanaugh a chance to save up some money to build and fund their own stadium. It is exactly 70 yards wide - which is legal under FIFA standards... but that's not the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilkowsky Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Littlebill said: It is exactly 70 yards wide - which is legal under FIFA standards... but that's not the point What is the point? It would save the City 60 million dollars and we would see if MLS will be successful in St. Louis. Think of the crowds. 45,000 people every game for MLS. Would rival Seattle. That way as I said SCSTL could save up their money and fund their own stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorydays2013 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said: What is the point? It would save the City 60 million dollars and we would see if MLS will be successful in St. Louis. Think of the crowds. 45,000 people every game for MLS. Would rival Seattle. That way as I said SCSTL could save up their money and fund their own stadium. Watching soccer in a baseball stadium is not that fun to watch if it isnt a one time thing like international or premier league. Could work the opposite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almaman Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Ball to small? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said: Watching soccer in a baseball stadium is not that fun to watch if it isnt a one time thing like international or premier league. Could work the opposite This discussion misses the rather obvious point that the MLS season and the MLB season overlap. Ain't happenin', ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilkowsky Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, bonwich said: This discussion misses the rather obvious point that the MLS season and the MLB season overlap. Ain't happenin', ever. The Yankees and NYCFC (NYCFC are in MLS) have done it for three years now. The games I have seen on television the atmosphere seems ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said: The Yankees and NYCFC (NYCFC are in MLS) have done it for three years now. The games I have seen on television the atmosphere seems ok. You should call Kavanaugh and Edgerly and suggest this unique idea that they surely have never considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slu let the dogs out? Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 On 3/27/2017 at 8:33 AM, JMM28 said: I think most people would agree with that first part, but aren't the issues with the city more due to the lack of quality leadership in the city of St. Louis than people who live in the county? TheChosenOne: I tried to quote you but have no idea how to do it so i just copied and pasted above. To answer the second part of your sentence, yes and no. Quality leadership (or lack thereof) in the city has certainly played a large role. I think another factor, however, has been policy at the regional level which can have a large impact on the city. One small example: county voters voting down a nominal tax increase for Metro services. County residents: "I don't care about public transportation. Why do I care if they are able to maintain their buses, I certainly don't take them!" Well, a lot of low-wage city residents DO take them and DO depend on them and a lot of them work at jobs in the county. Metro had to shut down services outside of 270 and county business owners were SHOCKED when their employees weren't showing up to work! My point being, the city needs to take responsibility and do whatever it can to improve. There is no denying that. But it would be in the best interest of the surrounding counties to extend a hand and help instead of constantly turning their backs. Again...a healthy and vibrant city is good for the entire region. There seems to be this self-fulfilling prophecy with many county residents: the city is horrible, crime-ridden and useless, therefore I won't vote for anything that could actually improve the city because what's the point? It's a "waste of money". Then more crime happens, more disinvestment, etc. Those people watching the news: "See!!! You see! Why would I want to help the city?" As an FYI, I live in the county. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milwaukeebill Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 As always big questions and problems in the region come down to the one problem that underlies the rest of them. County and city are split. If that is not solved, solving any of the other questions (crime,schools, infrastructure,TIF spending) will continue to be harder than it has to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 57 minutes ago, bonwich said: This discussion misses the rather obvious point that the MLS season and the MLB season overlap. Ain't happenin', ever. Thank the Lord I have TrollPants on IGNORE. From this post, is he/she/it suggesting playing MLS soccer at Busch Stadium? If so, simply research the topic TrollPants. It has been answered already by Mr. DeWitt. Of course that would take effort on your part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 34 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said: TheChosenOne: I tried to quote you but have no idea how to do it so i just copied and pasted above. To answer the second part of your sentence, yes and no. Quality leadership (or lack thereof) in the city has certainly played a large role. I think another factor, however, has been policy at the regional level which can have a large impact on the city. One small example: county voters voting down a nominal tax increase for Metro services. County residents: "I don't care about public transportation. Why do I care if they are able to maintain their buses, I certainly don't take them!" Well, a lot of low-wage city residents DO take them and DO depend on them and a lot of them work at jobs in the county. Metro had to shut down services outside of 270 and county business owners were SHOCKED when their employees weren't showing up to work! My point being, the city needs to take responsibility and do whatever it can to improve. There is no denying that. But it would be in the best interest of the surrounding counties to extend a hand and help instead of constantly turning their backs. Again...a healthy and vibrant city is good for the entire region. There seems to be this self-fulfilling prophecy with many county residents: the city is horrible, crime-ridden and useless, therefore I won't vote for anything that could actually improve the city because what's the point? It's a "waste of money". Then more crime happens, more disinvestment, etc. Those people watching the news: "See!!! You see! Why would I want to help the city?" As an FYI, I live in the county. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 34 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said: TheChosenOne: I tried to quote you but have no idea how to do it so i just copied and pasted above. To answer the second part of your sentence, yes and no. Quality leadership (or lack thereof) in the city has certainly played a large role. I think another factor, however, has been policy at the regional level which can have a large impact on the city. One small example: county voters voting down a nominal tax increase for Metro services. County residents: "I don't care about public transportation. Why do I care if they are able to maintain their buses, I certainly don't take them!" Well, a lot of low-wage city residents DO take them and DO depend on them and a lot of them work at jobs in the county. Metro had to shut down services outside of 270 and county business owners were SHOCKED when their employees weren't showing up to work! My point being, the city needs to take responsibility and do whatever it can to improve. There is no denying that. But it would be in the best interest of the surrounding counties to extend a hand and help instead of constantly turning their backs. Again...a healthy and vibrant city is good for the entire region. There seems to be this self-fulfilling prophecy with many county residents: the city is horrible, crime-ridden and useless, therefore I won't vote for anything that could actually improve the city because what's the point? It's a "waste of money". Then more crime happens, more disinvestment, etc. Those people watching the news: "See!!! You see! Why would I want to help the city?" As an FYI, I live in the county. Great point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 23 minutes ago, milwaukeebill said: As always big questions and problems in the region come down to the one problem that underlies the rest of them. County and city are split. If that is not solved, solving any of the other questions (crime,schools, infrastructure,TIF spending) will continue to be harder than it has to be. Bingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 39 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said: TheChosenOne: I tried to quote you but have no idea how to do it so i just copied and pasted above. To answer the second part of your sentence, yes and no. Quality leadership (or lack thereof) in the city has certainly played a large role. I think another factor, however, has been policy at the regional level which can have a large impact on the city. One small example: county voters voting down a nominal tax increase for Metro services. County residents: "I don't care about public transportation. Why do I care if they are able to maintain their buses, I certainly don't take them!" Well, a lot of low-wage city residents DO take them and DO depend on them and a lot of them work at jobs in the county. Metro had to shut down services outside of 270 and county business owners were SHOCKED when their employees weren't showing up to work! My point being, the city needs to take responsibility and do whatever it can to improve. There is no denying that. But it would be in the best interest of the surrounding counties to extend a hand and help instead of constantly turning their backs. Again...a healthy and vibrant city is good for the entire region. There seems to be this self-fulfilling prophecy with many county residents: the city is horrible, crime-ridden and useless, therefore I won't vote for anything that could actually improve the city because what's the point? It's a "waste of money". Then more crime happens, more disinvestment, etc. Those people watching the news: "See!!! You see! Why would I want to help the city?" As an FYI, I live in the county. Great point. Please keep up the good fight in the County. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorydays2013 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 13 minutes ago, HoosierPal said: Thank the Lord I have TrollPants on IGNORE. From this post, is he/she/it suggesting playing MLS soccer at Busch Stadium? If so, simply research the topic TrollPants. It has been answered already by Mr. DeWitt. Of course that would take effort on your part. Wow if you are talking about me, you're an idiot since my comment completely disagreed with playing MLS at Busch Stadium. But that would take effort on your part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Just now, Glorydays2013 said: Wow if you are talking about me, you're an idiot since my comment completely disagreed with playing MLS at Busch Stadium. But that would take effort on your part He's not talking about you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said: Wow if you are talking about me, you're an idiot since my comment completely disagreed with playing MLS at Busch Stadium. But that would take effort on your part No, I don't have you on IGNORE, yet. TrollPants knows who he/she/it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnkielBreakers Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 On 3/28/2017 at 10:29 AM, bonwich said: Yeah, and Donald Trump read somewhere that Obama had tapped his phones. I'd bet that the "reports" you've read were written by or on behalf of or financed by stadium proponents. There are also reams of studies from people with no dog in the fight that conclude otherwise. For example: Publicly Financed Sports Stadiums Are A Game That Taxpayers Lose This link has nothing to do with St. Louis or this stadium. Your argument is that most stadiums don't make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilkowsky Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, slufan13 said: You should call Kavanaugh and Edgerly and suggest this unique idea that they surely have never considered. I have NEVER heard them talk about the subject, nor have I seen anything in the media that the Cardinals were ever asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 15 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said: Wow if you are talking about me, you're an idiot since my comment completely disagreed with playing MLS at Busch Stadium. But that would take effort on your part They aren't talking about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said: I have NEVER heard them talk about the subject, nor have I seen anything in the media that the Cardinals were ever asked. Wow looks like you could save the city with your unique, never-considered idea. Just pass it along to Kavanaugh and Edgerly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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