Voters could bring the MLS to St. Louis April 4th

[RiseAndGrind]

12 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

If I remember correctly the ownership group said the City would benefit to the tune of 77 million dollars over 30 years. That is only about 389000 a year.

Considering the 60 million investment - that isn't a great return.

For those who want the City to pay for a stadium do you really think an MLS franchise will make a difference in regards to the Coty.

Look at St. Charles County who grows at five percent a year.

They have never had an NFL franchise. No MLB team. No NHL team. Not putting in a soccer stadium.

They have safe neighborhoods and good schools. Unlike St. Louis City.

Which is why people don't want to live in the City.

An MLS franchise won't change that.

 

Without St. Louis City, there is no St. Charles County. But ok. 

[Glorydays2013]

1 minute ago, Tilkowsky said:

17 home games times 20,000 fans equals 340,000.

For football if you have a franchise that is halfway decent - 8 games times 60000 average equals 480,000 fans.

So soccer is a larger season but still attracts fewer fans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_attendance_figures

STL rams had the LOWEST attendance in all of NFL it's last year at 52,000 average, still more than the projected MLS but still. 

I personally think St. Louis is selling themselves short at 17,000 stadium which I think could sell much more if prices were good and utilized advertising to all of STL 2.8 million pop

[Bay Area Billiken]

The MLS has decided the model soccer stadium for its purposes is in the 20,000 range.

The StubHub Center in Carson, CA, (SoCal), home of the LA Galaxy, seats 27,000, to be expanded to 30,000 to host the NFL Los Angeles Chargers until Kroenke's palace in Inglewood is built and the Chargers become tenants.

The new Avaya Stadium in San Jose, home of the MLS Earthquakes, seats 18,000.

[majerus mojo]

1 hour ago, slufanskip said:

Since this is a soccer thread and I've been meaning to start an off topic thread discussing the Men's Nat'l Team I'll add it here.

I thought we had some outstanding performances. The Pulisic pass to Dempsey and Dempsey's finish was fantastic.

Stars - Pulisic, Nagbe, Dempsey, Altidore, and Cameron. I loved watching Pulisic and Nagbe take on defenders and be creative with the ball. Altidore was very good holding and distributing. He did a great job of drawing defenders and then playing the ball to right spot. Dempsey ... even if he can't play 90 minutes on a normal basis how dangerous can he be for 30.

Weakness - Bradley besides the goal, just turns the ball over far to often which is really hard to believe considering his first thought almost every touch is to lay off to safety. Central defense just continues to lose their man. It has to change.

No time for more, but I'm looking forward to the game tonight

Still drooling over that noted Pulisic through ball (L1 + triangle). Worth a gander or twelve

 

[Littlebill]

28 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

If I remember correctly the ownership group said the City would benefit to the tune of 77 million dollars over 30 years. That is only about 389000 a year.

Considering the 60 million investment - that isn't a great return.

For those who want the City to pay for a stadium do you really think an MLS franchise will make a difference in regards to the Coty.

Look at St. Charles County who grows at five percent a year.

They have never had an NFL franchise. No MLB team. No NHL team. Not putting in a soccer stadium.

They have safe neighborhoods and good schools. Unlike St. Louis City.

Which is why people don't want to live in the City.

An MLS franchise won't change that.

 

And I'll never live in the Hoosier palooza that is St Chuck - so there are two sides to a coin. 

Ever think there is more to this than money? Like residents would enjoy seeing another team in our town? Civic pride and all that. How people view our city - like I'm sure you as a St Cuck resident would like it to be viewed as the Hoosier capital of the area, but it is. Civic pride is a real thing

 

edit: yes I see the typo, no it wasn't on purpose, yes I'm leaving it

[cheeseman]

Most of the studies I have seen that say stadiums do not generate new revenue for the city work on the principle that the money that would be spent on the games would be money spent anyway in the city on other entertainment so no net gain.  I have never thought that makes sense.  I think those people who bought season tix for the Rams are not saying well I have $2k more now so lets go to the movies more often or lets buy more clothes, or lets order more pizzas.  I know if I did not spend the money for Billiken tix and Billiken Club membership it is not money I would automatically just go out and blow on something else.  Not everybody lives by the "I have money burning a hole in my pocket" approach.  All that being said I get some people's thoughts - I may not agree but I do understand.  I also agree that cities do get some intangibles from professional teams just like they get from museums and zoos and gardens.  

[slufanskip]

4 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Most of the studies I have seen that say stadiums do not generate new revenue for the city work on the principle that the money that would be spent on the games would be money spent anyway in the city on other entertainment so no net gain.  I have never thought that makes sense.  I think those people who bought season tix for the Rams are not saying well I have $2k more now so lets go to the movies more often or lets buy more clothes, or lets order more pizzas.  I know if I did not spend the money for Billiken tix and Billiken Club membership it is not money I would automatically just go out and blow on something else.  Not everybody lives by the "I have money burning a hole in my pocket" approach.  All that being said I get some people's thoughts - I may not agree but I do understand.  I also agree that cities do get some intangibles from professional teams just like they get from museums and zoos and gardens.  

Not only that, but if you lived in Ballwin what are the chances you'd drive to the city to spend the money (assuming you would have spent it on some sort of entertainment anyway) Also how many times a season do you eat dinner in the city only because you were going to a Billiken game?

I'm not even arguing that it's a net gain ... way above my head. However, how many things do we spend tax payers money for that isn't a net gain? How many private business get some sort of tax break? How many public services that I personally don't give a damn about get tax money? So much money is already poorly spent, wasted, and mismanaged, that for once I don't really care if it costs taxpayers money. I'm admittedly being selfish. I want the team.

[cgeldmacher]

20 hours ago, AnkielBreakers said:

This is a stupid debate.  St. Louis is a soccer city.  Professional soccer would do well here.  It would bring in revenue for the city.  Who cares if millionaires would benefit, when we would all benefit.  Soccer is likely to grow tremendously over the next two decades.  This is the right time to jump on board.

I doubt this will pass though.  I have seen and heard too many idiotic arguments both on this board and elsewhere to believe it will happen. Also, the structure of the bill is so convoluted, it must have been brought in from Illinois.  

Oh well, just another missed opportunity.

+10000

I hope you're wrong, but I fear you may be right.  The worst argument that I have heard from seemingly intelligent folks is that this is only being done to benefit millionaires.  That's crazy.  This is being done to benefit the City.  The opponents need to get over what happened with Kroenke and realize that this is a different situation.  Another absurd argument out there is that the City and State are in a financial mess because of giving money to these stadiums.  The City and State are in a financial mess because of their complete inability to bring new business and keep existing business.  Part of the problem is the attitude that exists that you can't possibly give a business any incentive to come here or to stay here.  That's working out pretty well, isn't it?  Businesses seem to not be able to leave St. Louis fast enough and everyone blames that on the Dome!!!  INSANE.  St. Louis will not turn the corner until this attitude reverses and was see that businesses leave where they are and head to wherever they get the best deal.  So, let's stand on our principles people until this is a ghost town.  I hope we all keep in touch from whatever other City we find jobs in.

[cgeldmacher]

23 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Most of the studies I have seen that say stadiums do not generate new revenue for the city work on the principle that the money that would be spent on the games would be money spent anyway in the city on other entertainment so no net gain.  I have never thought that makes sense.  I think those people who bought season tix for the Rams are not saying well I have $2k more now so lets go to the movies more often or lets buy more clothes, or lets order more pizzas.  I know if I did not spend the money for Billiken tix and Billiken Club membership it is not money I would automatically just go out and blow on something else.  Not everybody lives by the "I have money burning a hole in my pocket" approach.  All that being said I get some people's thoughts - I may not agree but I do understand.  I also agree that cities do get some intangibles from professional teams just like they get from museums and zoos and gardens.  

Agree again.  If I didn't buy my Billiken tickets, I would probably take that money and put it into taking a trip somewhere.  Then the money would end up somewhere in the Carribean.  It is not guaranteed that the money would stay local.

Also, those studies don't look at the tax money from the players', coaches', and other staff's salaries.

[Tilkowsky]

1 hour ago, RiseAndGrind said:

Without St. Louis City, there is no St. Charles County. But ok. 

That still doesn't explain why people want to live in St. Charles instead of St. Louis City.

Even though St. Charles has NO major league franchises.

[Tilkowsky]

20 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Agree again.  If I didn't buy my Billiken tickets, I would probably take that money and put it into taking a trip somewhere.  Then the money would end up somewhere in the Carribean.  It is not guaranteed that the money would stay local.

Also, those studies don't look at the tax money from the players', coaches', and other staff's salaries.

Unless the players', coaches', and other staffs salaries are taken all year (which would require the training facilities and HQ to be in the City) instead of maybe 34 days out of the year.

The City is missing 4.5 million dollars from the Rams players, staff, coaches being gone. As well as opposing teams.

I am sure MLS will be much less than that.

 

[Tilkowsky]

1 hour ago, Littlebill said:

And I'll never live in the Hoosier palooza that is St Chuck - so there are two sides to a coin. 

Ever think there is more to this than money? Like residents would enjoy seeing another team in our town? Civic pride and all that. How people view our city - like I'm sure you as a St Cuck resident would like it to be viewed as the Hoosier capital of the area, but it is. Civic pride is a real thing

 

edit: yes I see the typo, no it wasn't on purpose, yes I'm leaving it

I am not a St.Charles resident. I live further out than that.

The thing that I and St. Charles residents have is low crime and really good schools. I never mentioned money.

Civic pride is great. How much is it worth to you? 60 million?

Edgerly and Kavanaugh can self fund.

They have enough money combined to do it.

Moody's has downgraded the City bonds again. Adding more debt to that won't help the City's poor cash position.

[slufanskip]

8 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

That still doesn't explain why people want to live in St. Charles instead of St. Louis City.

Even though St. Charles has NO major league franchises.

How many would still want to live there if St. Charles didn't have the major league franchises located in St. Louis? If St. Charles was a stand alone city 3 hours away from a city with major sports franchises and the other avenues of entertainment that a major city brings?

[Tilkowsky]

7 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

How many would still want to live there if St. Charles didn't have the major league franchises located in St. Louis? If St. Charles was a stand alone city 3 hours away from a city with major sports franchises and the other avenues of entertainment that a major city brings?

If Major League franchises are so important to people (instead of good schools and public safety) why don't more people live in the City instead of St. Charles?

 

[bk18]

23 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

so you admit you made it up based on a "vibe" you get.

same as your analysis of a football team 05

[brianstl]

8 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

How many would still want to live there if St. Charles didn't have the major league franchises located in St. Louis? If St. Charles was a stand alone city 3 hours away from a city with major sports franchises and the other avenues of entertainment that a major city brings?

This stuff about major league franchises attracting people is BS.  Nashville's population doubled before any major league teams moved there.  Austin's metro population has more than doubled over the last 20 years with no major league teams.  Portland's metro population grew by nearly 50% in 25 years prior to the Timbers with only Trail Blazers as a major league team.

Over the last 50 years the St Louis Metro area has only grown 15% total.

People don't move to where major league teams are.  Major league teams move to where big numbers of people are moving.

[billikenfan05]

10 minutes ago, bk18 said:

same as your analysis of a football team 05

Except my opinion on football is based on facts and numbers. Not anecdotal evidence. 

 

[DirtyRican]

Will the new Loop Trolley have a route to take me to this soccer stadium? If so, opening day arm wrestling match between 05 and Glory on the trolley en route to the match.  Skip, you bring the beers.

[DirtyRican]

2 hours ago, Littlebill said:

And I'll never live in the Hoosier palooza that is St Chuck - so there are two sides to a coin. 

Ever think there is more to this than money? Like residents would enjoy seeing another team in our town? Civic pride and all that. How people view our city - like I'm sure you as a St Cuck resident would like it to be viewed as the Hoosier capital of the area, but it is. Civic pride is a real thing

 

edit: yes I see the typo, no it wasn't on purpose, yes I'm leaving it

Yes, says guy in Jeffco. 

[slufanskip]

8 minutes ago, DirtyRican said:

Will the new Loop Trolley have a route to take me to this soccer stadium? If so, opening day arm wrestling match between 05 and Glory on the trolley en route to the match.  Skip, you bring the beers.

I got em.

[Box and Won]

24 minutes ago, brianstl said:

People don't move to where major league teams are.  Major league teams move to where big numbers of people are moving.

I don't know why this concept is so hard for many people to grasp.

First focus on making St. Louis a place that attracts and retains residents, then worry about the sports.

[JMM28]

5 minutes ago, Box and Won said:

I don't know why this concept is so hard for many people to grasp.

First focus on making St. Louis a place that attracts and retains residents, then worry about the sports.

You're the best poster, Box. 

[Glorydays2013]

Stl is growing. Want to keep people coming and not leave for the coasts or Texas, bring a new team in

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, Tilkowsky said:

That still doesn't explain why people want to live in St. Charles instead of St. Louis City.

Even though St. Charles has NO major league franchises.

When you talk to people who moved there they all say more house for the money.  Never mind they spend a lot more time in the car and the traffic situation out there is nuts.  They are not living there because they don't want to go to sporting events it is simply them getting their McMansion for less money in their minds.  For me the convenience of living closer out weighs it.

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, Tilkowsky said:

I am not a St.Charles resident. I live further out than that.

The thing that I and St. Charles residents have is low crime and really good schools. I never mentioned money.

Civic pride is great. How much is it worth to you? 60 million?

Edgerly and Kavanaugh can self fund.

They have enough money combined to do it.

Moody's has downgraded the City bonds again. Adding more debt to that won't help the City's poor cash position.

You have really good schools in StL County also and the crime rate is not high either.  I understand there are other reasons why people live out there.