Old guy Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 I think 3star has provided real insight into this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 46 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said: SLU will never hire the next up and coming assistant because we don't have an AD who eats and sleeps basketball and has connections to the next up and comers. Jamal Walker is going to have to string together 20 win regular seasons as a head coach before he gets an interview here. Jamal Walker would have to be an up and coming assistant first, which he isn't. He's just the latest young assistant at Illinois who is a "good recruiter" except those players didn't win and got the coach fired. He took over for Jerrence Howard who was previously in the young recruiting assistant at Illinois. Chris May having to hire a search firm says all you neeed to know about Chris Mays ability to hire a basketball coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 13 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said: That's fine with me but I would prefer 25 win seasons. If Walker strings together 25 win regular seasons at say, Indiana State, he's in line for a P5 job. See Martin, Cuonzo; White, Michael; Prohm, Steve etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 2 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said: Clock Tower, Jensen would be a great addition to SLU. He's recruited the area, been a head coach at the NBDL level, has had a great run developing players with the Utah Jazz under Quin Snyder and also internationally with the German national team. I could see him at SLU as a head coach down the road if he was interested. Hopefully we won't have a serious talk about head coach replacement for several years, and maybe Jensen will want to coach NCAA D1 in the future and no doubt Jensen can coach the game of basketball... but D1 college coaches must do so much more than coach: evaluate 16 and 17 year olds, recruit, kiss aau coaches ass, public speak and please boosters, fundraise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 40 minutes ago, JMM28 said: Jamal Walker would have to be an up and coming assistant first, which he isn't. He's just the latest young assistant at Illinois who is a "good recruiter" except those players didn't win and got the coach fired. He took over for Jerrence Howard who was previously in the young recruiting assistant at Illinois. Chris May having to hire a search firm says all you neeed to know about Chris Mays ability to hire a basketball coach. Virtually all schools use search firms. SLU's use of one is no different. Missouri is using one and I have yet to hear anything about IL but this not at all unusual. One reason a school would use a search firm is that they can talk to people who are currently under contract without getting permission from the person's AD. Also, these firms keep a list of coaches that they know have an interest in maybe leaving where they are currently working for whatever the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGMAN618 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, cheeseman said: Virtually all schools use search firms. SLU's use of one is no different. Missouri is using one and I have yet to hear anything about IL but this not at all unusual. One reason a school would use a search firm is that they can talk to people who are currently under contract without getting permission from the person's AD. Also, these firms keep a list of coaches that they know have an interest in maybe leaving where they are currently working for whatever the reason. Search firms can also land you people like John Groce. See Illinois.....5 years ago. Josh Whitman stated in his press conference he would not be using a search firm for this hire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 24 minutes ago, CGMAN618 said: Search firms can also land you people like John Groce. See Illinois.....5 years ago. Josh Whitman stated in his press conference he would not be using a search firm for this hire Seems to me you can find as many bad hires made directly by ADs as those run by search firms. I've got no real beef with either process as long as the right coach gets hired at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 42 minutes ago, cheeseman said: Virtually all schools use search firms. SLU's use of one is no different. Missouri is using one and I have yet to hear anything about IL but this not at all unusual. One reason a school would use a search firm is that they can talk to people who are currently under contract without getting permission from the person's AD. Also, these firms keep a list of coaches that they know have an interest in maybe leaving where they are currently working for whatever the reason. You know who doesn't use search firms? Those schools that people rattle off when talking about model programs. VCU, Dayton, Butler, Xavier, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, JMM28 said: You know who doesn't use search firms? Those schools that people rattle off when talking about model programs. VCU, Dayton, Butler, Xavier, etc. That's a bunch of selective choices. Xavier and Dayton haven't made a coaching hire in a while. Who knows what they'd do if they had to make a move. Last two hires from SLU: Crews was no search firm and Ford was from a search firm. Nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 26 minutes ago, kshoe said: That's a bunch of selective choices. Xavier and Dayton haven't made a coaching hire in a while. Who knows what they'd do if they had to make a move. Last two hires from SLU: Crews was no search firm and Ford was from a search firm. Nuff said. They haven't used one in the past. Xavier has been used as an example of coaching secession success for a long time and they just have administration that gets it. VCU has had a tremendous run of coaching hires. Dayton hired Archie out of the blue on their own. Butler keeps rolling along through multiple coaches. There wasn't really a search for Crews. More of a shoulder shrug and sure. Search firms are used for tampering or clueless ADs. Whether or not they recommend successful hires might be more of a causation vs correlation debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 #BringJamallHome #WalkBacktoMidtown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 8 hours ago, JMM28 said: You know who doesn't use search firms? Those schools that people rattle off when talking about model programs. VCU, Dayton, Butler, Xavier, etc. My response was that using a search firm is not unusual. How you use them is up to you - they can do the initial paperwork and screening but you can go from there. Search firms do not hire the coach only identify potential candidates. At this point unless you have a guy on staff or someone you have said I want him or bust then using a search firm is rather pro forma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 It's settled discussion that Drew Diener is the next HBBC at SLU. Walker can be his lead assistant. 97% agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 When you hire a search firm on retainer to find a new employee (a coach, or what have you) you give them a list of what you want to have in your new hire. The list could include a set number of wins for the last few seasons, number of appearances in post season tournaments, salary level limit, limits on how much may have to be paid to the prior employer to get this person hired, etc... Keep in mind that the more specs you require the more difficult it will be to find candidates that meet them. The most important numbers you give the search firm is the specified number of candidates you want to interview and the amount of time they have to present these candidates. You can specify 3 candidates who meet specs within a month and you will generally get them. That is what the search firm is contracted to do for you. The actual interviewing and decision to hire (or not) is up to the place searching for the new employee. Now, just think, who is responsible for finding and hiring the good and bad coaches? I would say, without a doubt, it is the school requesting the search. There may be a few gems among the candidates produced by the search firm, it is up to the school to identify the gems in the pile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 17 hours ago, slu72 said: Who on Ford's current staff do you think would be a good choice to succeed him at SLU? Any of them? We know Tate can recruit St.Louis area but those comments about being somewhat lazy in Columbia is not a ringing endorsement. I ask this because while Ford may not go anywhere this year, the rumors will turn serious next year if he has the Billikens competing for a spot in the dance or gets us in the NIT. AD's looking for a turnaround specialist will think it's pretty impressive if he gets a beat to hell SLU program back on track in 2 years. Quit spewing the nonsense about Tate that you hear from bitter SPUMAC fans. They don't like it that he left them and is now killing it for us on the recruiting trail. Also, the rumors with Ford are not likely to turn serious next season. Just a year ago, the perception was that he "failed" at OSU. It will take a few NCAA Tourney appearances to start changing that perception. It is to our benefit that he "failed at OSU", it will give P5 schools pause when looking for their next coach. They are more likely to look at the latest young hotshot who puts together a little run in the tourney - ex. John Groce. And regarding having somebody on staff who can succeed Ford, again likely several years away... but who cares? I want assistants who can recruit now. Hiring Sodie, who was Romar's assistant, as HC didn't work out so well. Hopefully Ford will have the program in great shape when he leaves making this an attractive job, which will give us a lot of good replacement options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 LSU job just came open. Lot of good power 5 schools are out there head hunting. As a long time Billiken fan I've been conditioned to expect the worse, ie would Ford actually pull up stakes after one year? That said, this coaching carousel every spring is really interesting to watch. So far some of the better or tastier rumors are Alford's not happy at UCLA, Crean wants out of Hoosier land and it's mutual. Cuonzo returning to the Midwest. So if Crean takes Mizzery that opens up IU for Alford to return home. UCLA comes open, they'd never offer Ford. Cuonzo takes UI, Cal opens up, again they'd have little interest in Ford. LSU would look intriguing for Travis as it's in the SEC. NC State is doubtful as they need to make a splash hire, but who's a splash coach for them? Greg Marshall perhaps if he has any desire to leave WSU. He's got roots in ACC land an AC in Charleston and HC in Winthrop. NC State fans would be over the moon if they could land him. They'd be screaming in pain if someone like Ford got the job, which is not to say he's even remotely under consideration. Another powerhouse that may be on the hunt is Ohio State. Supposedly, Matta has some health issues. This would seem a natural for Archie to fly the DU coop even though he's signed thru the end of this millennia. Money will be no objective for the Buckeyes re buyouts. Point in all this is there are probably only two schools that would have middling interest in Travis Ford right now; Mizzery and Illinois. And the only reason would be because of how quickly he recruited quality players to SLU, especially Goodwin and Gordon. But really would his hiring have their fan bases creaming their jeans? Doubtful is my guess. His resume at this point just doesn't support a jump to a power 5 school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Ford lost over 42 games in the last 2 years, I don't think P5 Conference school going to come calling yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 I P5 that is a dumpster fire like Mizzou that sees that Ford just appears to have turned around a dumpster fire like SLU quickly and that knows he would bring Gordon and Thatch with him might just be intrigued. Like SLU72 said, doubtful, but still possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almaman Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Anyone who would bolt in 1 year after posting losing record, and then recruiting great incoming class like he has, say all that he's said would be stained for life as a turkey. I can think of anyone who's been fired by a P5 team left for mid major and then stiffed them and went back to a P5 team very next year. help me out if I'm spacing, maybe Larry Brown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 1 hour ago, almaman said: Anyone who would bolt in 1 year after posting losing record, and then recruiting great incoming class like he has, say all that he's said would be stained for life as a turkey. I can think of anyone who's been fired by a P5 team left for mid major and then stiffed them and went back to a P5 team very next year. help me out if I'm spacing, maybe Larry Brown? -okay, you would call them a turkey, they would have an additional $1million or more to try to deal with that assessment as in this case they got another job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 19 minutes ago, Cowboy said: -okay, you would call them a turkey, they would have an additional $1million or more to try to deal with that assessment as in this case they got another job Hate to tell you Cowboy, but your reputation in a business like coaching basketball is worth a lot more than the extra $1 M or more in your pocket. Feel free to disagree with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 13 minutes ago, Old guy said: Hate to tell you Cowboy, but your reputation in a business like coaching basketball is worth a lot more than the extra $1 M or more in your pocket. Feel free to disagree with me. -tell that to Calipari, Eddie Sutton, Boeheim, Roy Williams, Haith, Kelvin Sampson, Pitino, Larry Brown, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 With Romar out at UW. Could there be Romar to Illinois, with Walker as an assistant (note Walker played for Romar at SLU, but he was not his recruit (I think)). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said: With Romar out at UW. Could there be Romar to Illinois, with Walker as an assistant (note Walker played for Romar at SLU, but he was not his recruit (I think)). Walker was a Spoonhour recruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said: With Romar out at UW. Could there be Romar to Illinois, with Walker as an assistant (note Walker played for Romar at SLU, but he was not his recruit (I think)). Would Romar want to come back to the Midwest? Would Illinois want to hire a coach that has just been fired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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