Dayton, VCU and Wichita St. to AAC?

[brianstl]

1 hour ago, TJHawk said:

This would be a strange pick up for the AAC.  In the next 5 years Iowa St, Kansas St, TCU and Baylor will become available to them.  If they want to add a school now UMass would be a perfect fit.

I always love how KU fans always assume that they will get invited to one of the remaining power conferences when the Big 12 finally collapses.  Like the ACC or the Big 10 is dying from them to join their conference.  The ACC left UConn behind when the Big East fell apart and will do the same to Kansas when the Big 12 collapses.  The Big ten has already passed you over in favor of Nebraska, Rutgers and Maryland.  KU has a decent chance of being stuck on the outside with Iowa St., TCU, Baylor and Texas Tech.  

Texas is going to do whatever it wants to do and they won't care about any other schools.  From what I understand they would now prefer the ACC, but want the Domers to join for football, too.  The Big 10 is an option, but Texas supposedly wants to the Big 10 to also convince Notre Dame to join with them as full members.  OU would be the partner with Texas in either of those conferences if Notre Dame remains independent.  Texas, also, has the option of going the Notre Dame route by going independent in football and finding a place to park the rest of their programs.  Texas is supposedly no longer interested in the PAC 12 and supposedly the SEC would never be an option.

OU has options, but they will be limited if they want to take Okie St. with them. Texas isn't going to make a deal that involves Okie St..  Supposedly the PAC 12, ACC, and SEC have all told OU that they want them but aren't interested in little brother. The PAC 12 supposedly has told OU they would take them if KU was the other team.  I just don't see OU going west unless little brother is part of the deal.  The PAC 12 isn't interested in KU without a big dog in football.  

My guess is ultimately Texas and OU join the Big 10 together as Notre Dame decides to stay independent in football.  Then things will get interesting.  I would then expect the SEC to raid the ACC to counter the Big 10 additions.  We will find out how enforceable the granting of rights actually are.  We will see if the remnants of the Big 12 stick together or go their separate way to what is left of the ACC,  the MWC and the American.  

[Glorydays2013]

What evidence out there that the B12 is collasping?

[brianstl]

Just now, Glorydays2013 said:

What evidence out there that the B12 is collasping?

Back when there was expansion talks in the fall for the Big 12,  it fell apart because Texas and OU refused to extend the granting of rights agreements.  That should tell everyone they are looking to leave the conference.  

[Glorydays2013]

2 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Back when there was expansion talks in the fall for the Big 12,  it fell apart because Texas and OU refused to extend the granting of rights agreements.  That should tell everyone they are looking to leave the conference.  

Are there openings for another conference for them to go to?

[brianstl]

5 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Are there openings for another conference for them to go to?

Every conference in the country has a spot open for Texas.  Hell, the Ivy would even except Texas.  OU without Okie St. has plenty of options, too.

[HoosierPal]

2 hours ago, TJHawk said:

This would be a strange pick up for the AAC.  In the next 5 years Iowa St, Kansas St, TCU and Baylor will become available to them.  If they want to add a school now UMass would be a perfect fit.

You should read what the AAC Commissioner has said on additions.  The article has been posted already.

[HoosierPal]

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/tipsheet-wichita-state-ready-to-bail-on-the-mvc/article_8a949f32-f5c2-5cc3-a6b7-099f2ab8b7b4.html

For those who avoid the PD, here is an article from today's issue on WSU baling out maybe as early as next month.  Gordon also casts his vote for UMKC to replace the Shockers in the Valley.

[BLIKNS]

Always thought UMKC would be a dood fit in the Valley, could see them making a play for Belmont as well

[JettFlight5]

On 3/23/2017 at 8:45 PM, Soderball said:

we will have to agree to disagree, roy.

I'll also posit that having Wich St in the a10 is not like adding in Michigan or soomething.

 

I also think that the Chaifetz and the associated facilities should update your views from what they were in the West Pine days.

I probably was way too confrontational. You are always consistent. I respect your opinion but I think you are underselling SLU.

Agree with you here. Every question in the department has to start and end with basketball. If the non-revs get crushed but MBB and WBB win the department does well. Reverse the two and it's a bad year. 

[Soderball]

20 hours ago, BLIKNS said:

Always thought UMKC would be a dood fit in the Valley, could see them making a play for Belmont as well

Would be very happy to see Belmont leave the OVC. The home court advantage stuff in the tournament is unhelpful in a purely 1-bid conference.

I think Belmont is oversold in the same manner as Davidson.. don't think they are a very big catch. UMKC isnt either. The MVC is being thrown to the wolves in this theoretical deal.Thank God the small-minded didn't manage to, despite their shrieking, con SLU into joining the MVC.

I doubt the MVC has any serious avenue forward, splitting the tiny tourney revenue even further isnt the way to go. SIUE makes as much sense as adding UMKC does. Why not add UMSL?

 

For the MVC; if they are serious about trying to up their game to land more NIT bids or something, they should make a run at Valparaiso. That's a realistic goal to land a school that has shown commitment to and some success at their level in basketball. The current nature of the game, with all of the good programs being sucked up into the power, higher-tier conferences.. losing Creighton.. WSU.. there simply is no place in the current D1 landscape for conferences like the MVC.. the power conference schools are simply not willing to play road games. They don't need them to maintain strength of schedule; and the potential for a bad loss or bubble loss could keep them out of the tournament and ruin the season. All risk, no reward.

Blame the tournament selection committee and the cowards in the NCAA offices. They made this happen and dug the MVC's grave for it. The A10 is pretty much THE mid-major conference out there now. There aren't really any others left in my opinion.. Okay maybe the WCC.

Losing WSU makes the MVC no longer "mid-major" in my opinion.

[JMM28]

33 minutes ago, Soderball said:

Losing WSU makes the MVC no longer "mid-major" in my opinion.

I don't think that's accurate. Results are so up and down that you have to look at expenditures when separating the levels of school. If a school has a budget in the 6 figures for their program, probably a low major. 1.5 Million dollars is the cut off on the low end for what I would consider a mid major. Anything less than that isn't showing any commitment to sustained success. On the A10 high end, I believe VCU leads the conference at around 5 million. Wichita is in a similar (or above) range. 

[3star_recruit]

nm

[ARon]

While WSU does spend and Witchita has more going for it as a market/community than say Carbondale, they tend to get a bit too much credit for recent success.

If Gregg Marshall leaves and the replacement isn't up to snuff they look a lot more like a Valpo than a VCU.

[cheeseman]

5 hours ago, Soderball said:

Would be very happy to see Belmont leave the OVC. The home court advantage stuff in the tournament is unhelpful in a purely 1-bid conference.

I think Belmont is oversold in the same manner as Davidson.. don't think they are a very big catch. UMKC isnt either. The MVC is being thrown to the wolves in this theoretical deal.Thank God the small-minded didn't manage to, despite their shrieking, con SLU into joining the MVC.

I doubt the MVC has any serious avenue forward, splitting the tiny tourney revenue even further isnt the way to go. SIUE makes as much sense as adding UMKC does. Why not add UMSL?

 

For the MVC; if they are serious about trying to up their game to land more NIT bids or something, they should make a run at Valparaiso. That's a realistic goal to land a school that has shown commitment to and some success at their level in basketball. The current nature of the game, with all of the good programs being sucked up into the power, higher-tier conferences.. losing Creighton.. WSU.. there simply is no place in the current D1 landscape for conferences like the MVC.. the power conference schools are simply not willing to play road games. They don't need them to maintain strength of schedule; and the potential for a bad loss or bubble loss could keep them out of the tournament and ruin the season. All risk, no reward.

Blame the tournament selection committee and the cowards in the NCAA offices. They made this happen and dug the MVC's grave for it. The A10 is pretty much THE mid-major conference out there now. There aren't really any others left in my opinion.. Okay maybe the WCC.

Losing WSU makes the MVC no longer "mid-major" in my opinion.

UMSL is a D2 school - it would take them 5 years to make the transition.  

[Soderball]

1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

UMSL is a D2 school - it would take them 5 years to make the transition.  

It would do as much good for the MVC as adding UMKC. It's pointless.

The MVC should just shrink in size rather than try to 'replace' WSU. Another program like WSU doesn't exist that could be lured to the conference. Adding UMKC just sinks the MVC in to further and deeper irrelevance.

[Soderball]

6 hours ago, JMM28 said:

I don't think that's accurate. Results are so up and down that you have to look at expenditures when separating the levels of school. If a school has a budget in the 6 figures for their program, probably a low major. 1.5 Million dollars is the cut off on the low end for what I would consider a mid major. Anything less than that isn't showing any commitment to sustained success. On the A10 high end, I believe VCU leads the conference at around 5 million. Wichita is in a similar (or above) range. 

If a conference is locked in to being 1-bid in a permanent sense, why does it matter if it's called the MVC or the SWAC? What's the difference? Serious arguments could be made at that point for the constituents of the MVC to leave it to instead join a weaker conference, or for schools to try and split up and make a new conference. The money is all getting piled up at the top.. the same thing is happening in NCAA basketball as has happened in the football side of the equation.

WSU was a top-10 team that got a 10-seed.

You can think they are mid-major all you want, the committee already laid waste to your theory.

[milwaukeebill]

1 hour ago, Soderball said:

If a conference is locked in to being 1-bid in a permanent sense, why does it matter if it's called the MVC or the SWAC? What's the difference? Serious arguments could be made at that point for the constituents of the MVC to leave it to instead join a weaker conference, or for schools to try and split up and make a new conference. The money is all getting piled up at the top.. the same thing is happening in NCAA basketball as has happened in the football side of the equation.

WSU was a top-10 team that got a 10-seed.

You can think they are mid-major all you want, the committee already laid waste to your theory.

I actually thought Wichita was fairly seeded. Yes they were top 10 in kenpom, but their results looked like a 10 seed. Their best win outside 2 Illinois state wins was Oklahoma who didnt make the tournament or NIT. They beat no tournament teams i believe. NCAA can't seed based on your kenpom, they have to seed based on how you actually performed. And they really didn't beat anyone this year.

[JMM28]

8 hours ago, Soderball said:

If a conference is locked in to being 1-bid in a permanent sense, why does it matter if it's called the MVC or the SWAC? What's the difference? Serious arguments could be made at that point for the constituents of the MVC to leave it to instead join a weaker conference, or for schools to try and split up and make a new conference. The money is all getting piled up at the top.. the same thing is happening in NCAA basketball as has happened in the football side of the equation.

WSU was a top-10 team that got a 10-seed.

You can think they are mid-major all you want, the committee already laid waste to your theory.

I see your point, but I think you're operating under a flawed conclusion and working backwards. The MVC still has plenty of opportunity to be a multi bid league. The same "only one bid league" was said when Creighton left, yet they've been a multi bid league more years than not since then.

That level of league, along with the other mid majors, tend to be reliant on 4 year players. Programs tend to be a little cyclical in that regard which has led typically strong programs to be down - SMS, SIU, Bradley. The league schedule has been way down compared to the 2006 year where they put 4 and should have been 5 in the tournament. 

The Valley will be just fine, it has survived a lot of upward defections over the years. 

13 hours ago, ARon said:

While WSU does spend and Witchita has more going for it as a market/community than say Carbondale, they tend to get a bit too much credit for recent success.

If Gregg Marshall leaves and the replacement isn't up to snuff they look a lot more like a Valpo than a VCU.

When you've got Koch brothers money coming in, you'll always be able to compete for top coaches. 

[Billy Ken]

The chips are beginning to fall and if Dayton and VCU bolt as reported. A10 is not the conference I would prefer to stay in anymore. Without football or entry into Big East I feel like we will be in a bad conference limbo for the foreseeable future. It just doesn't seem like we have a plan, just sit back and wait for Ford to bring us back to promise land. That's a scary strategy, but sounds like the reality. What if he doesn't deliver on his promises? We can play what if game all day I get that, I just have a feeling slu is at a major crossroads conference-wise and my biggest fear will be that slu is left behind. 

[thetorch]

Why the valley hasn't tried to add Valpo, Belmont, and Northern Kentucky is beyond me.

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, Billy Ken said:

The chips are beginning to fall and if Dayton and VCU bolt as reported. A10 is not the conference I would prefer to stay in anymore. Without football or entry into Big East I feel like we will be in a bad conference limbo for the foreseeable future. It just doesn't seem like we have a plan, just sit back and wait for Ford to bring us back to promise land. That's a scary strategy, but sounds like the reality. What if he doesn't deliver on his promises? We can play what if game all day I get that, I just have a feeling slu is at a major crossroads conference-wise and my biggest fear will be that slu is left behind. 

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article142152734.html

Rest easy BK.  The AAC appears to be stopping at WSU's addition. 

[billikenfan05]

the problem with SLU is that we don't have much to offer beyond Basketball and men's Soccer. The rest of SLU sports fall on the NCAA average line or below. That as much as our lack of success the last couple years is going to keep us on the outside of any conference realignment. Outside of the Valley I don't think we're a hot commodity among conferences for expansion/addition.

[JMM28]

2 hours ago, thetorch said:

Why the valley hasn't tried to add Valpo, Belmont, and Northern Kentucky is beyond me.

That's the winning play. Belmont wasn't interested last time around, but we'll see now. 

Valpo is a question mark for me. They haven't committed to running a strong athletics operation there which would make me nervous. Their gym is a high school gym and who knows what will happen without the Drews around. 

[ARon]

2 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

the problem with SLU is that we don't have much to offer beyond Basketball and men's Soccer. The rest of SLU sports fall on the NCAA average line or below. That as much as our lack of success the last couple years is going to keep us on the outside of any conference realignment. Outside of the Valley I don't think we're a hot commodity among conferences for expansion/addition.

Conferences don't give a damn about what a school's non-revenue sports are like.  None of that moves the needle.

[Bay Area Billiken]

At this point I do not think Dayton and VCU are going anywhere. They are in the A10, at least for the forseeably near future.