Jump to content

Free Throw Shooting


Pistol

Recommended Posts

33 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

spoon was the all time champion of embellishment.   I sat with Donnie Dobbs family at the conference tourney in Cincinnati and Donnie would come to talk to us after every game, i.e. I stood next to Donnie Dobbs on a number of occasions that week.   he was closer to 6'4" than 6'1". 

I'll let you stay with your belief.  I stood next to Donnie, but only once. He wasn't 6'4" unless I had a temporary growth spurt and promptly reversed itself.  Whatever.  The 1993-1994 Media Guide doesn't agree with you.  Not the first time we disagree nor will it be the last. I'm sticking with 6'2". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Box and Won said:

This American Life did an interesting piece in which Malcolm Gladwell talked granny free throws with Rick Barry.  It makes total sense to shoot free throws that way, but no one is willing to do it. 

Link to this episode - it's in Act One which starts about 9 min in. It's pretty good.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/590/choosing-wrong

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

Dobbs never played in the A10.  we were in a much tougher conference usa at that time.   the A10 is no where near the conference CUSA was back in those days.  Donnie was bigger than 6'2" but probably wasn't 6'5".   cant compare most anyone to Dobbs as he was an extremely savvy player that knew how to use his body and positioning to do the job like just about no one I have ever seen since.   I would love Bess to compare and play like Donnie Dobbs.  

Agreed. The other obvious undersized power forward who used savvy and positioning to his advantage was Evans. It's my hope too that Bess can be that type of player.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think all this worrying about free throw shooting is crazy.  Yes, it is frustrating to watch the team miss them so much.  Every year multiple teams that shoot in the  same range as we have this year from the line make the tournament as at large teams.  This isn't even close to being the biggest worry for the team next season.  There are so many other things that need to be improved on before we need to worry about the free throw shooting.  

A list of things........

2pt field goal percentage- we rank 341

3pt field goal percentage-223

generating assists-228

limiting turnovers-215

offensive rebounds-310 It is amazing we rank this low in this category because are shooting percentage generates tons of chances to grab them

defensive rebounds-246

creating steals-280

blocking shots-259

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, its who finishes and not who starts.  You're up five or six and the opposition is going to extend the game by fouling.  In many cases, the coach counter by getting his best ball handlers and shooters into the game.  Of course, it doesn't happen all the time  but that is the 'offense for defense' substitution.  We have no point of reference for this year because we have rarely been in such a comparative situation.  Many times in those games, the offense is driving to the bucket to initiate contact.  Or launching threes.  You also can hold your timeouts for use.  It all depends.  

After the foul shot, horn, in comes Bishop, Henriquez, Johnson, Roby and even (shudder) Hines.  When the foul occurs (one assumes the ball handling here is better than average) back in with the defensive shock troops of Bess, French, Foreman and Goodwin.  If they get to the line, it likely means the opposition missed a shot and benefits to us.  

Henriquez is likely low on free throw attempts because a cardinal rule in basketball is you don't foul a jump shooter.  Its why Zeke doesn't have more attempts.  Roby drives, Crawford drives, Hines drives.  The probability increases exponentially in that regards.  Let's get the horse first before we even worry about the cart or in what position we want to place it.

Tick, tick, tick .....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, CBFan said:

Thank you for the information about Bess I did not know where he would play.  Evans was 6' 5" and played the post well.  Dobbs was only 6' 2" and played well.  Jefferey Harris at 6' 4" was another good post player.  I remember the coach spoon show was hosted by Jack Buck, what a great show that was with those two and a lot of lines similar to the Spoon line about Dobbs size came out of that show.  Those were good years to be a bills fan.

Lets not confuse being a post player with doing their work in the post. Evans worked in the post but wasn't a post player. Had Evans been a true post player he'd have likely been guarded by a different player which would in all likelihood would have left him with different results. Dobbs was a true post. Jeff H played a 4 and was generally guarded by another big. I used to love watching him own Danny Fortson.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Not much of a correlation. Taking the top 25 EFG% and FT%  lists ...only 6 FT teams match up with  the EFG list

Btw 2 FT teams that don't match up are #7 LaS and #9 St. B.

This is a fair quick and dirty indicator but I was curious if it is indicative across all teams.  I got 33.4% Pearson correlation on eFG and FT% this year and a higher 37.5% correlation for 2015-16.  This was on actual percentages, there was a lower correlation on rank this year (30.2%).   Those numbers show some correlation but only some.

Surprising, to me at least, was the correlation between this year and last for FTs and eFG.  There is a lot of correlation between years by team for eFG (55.5%) but not as much for FT% (30.1%).  I would interpret that as eFG is more a function of coaching than FTs.  For SLU next year this means we would be any outlier to raise our eFG rate but our case of massive quality transfers/recruits is certainly an outlier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, brianstl said:

I think all this worrying about free throw shooting is crazy.  Yes, it is frustrating to watch the team miss them so much.  Every year multiple teams that shoot in the  same range as we have this year from the line make the tournament as at large teams.  This isn't even close to being the biggest worry for the team next season.  There are so many other things that need to be improved on before we need to worry about the free throw shooting.  

A list of things........

2pt field goal percentage- we rank 341

3pt field goal percentage-223

generating assists-228

limiting turnovers-215

offensive rebounds-310 It is amazing we rank this low in this category because are shooting percentage generates tons of chances to grab them

defensive rebounds-246

creating steals-280

blocking shots-259

-u - g - l - y 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, brianstl said:

I think all this worrying about free throw shooting is crazy.  Yes, it is frustrating to watch the team miss them so much.  Every year multiple teams that shoot in the  same range as we have this year from the line make the tournament as at large teams.  This isn't even close to being the biggest worry for the team next season.  There are so many other things that need to be improved on before we need to worry about the free throw shooting.  

A list of things........

2pt field goal percentage- we rank 341

3pt field goal percentage-223

generating assists-228

limiting turnovers-215

offensive rebounds-310 It is amazing we rank this low in this category because are shooting percentage generates tons of chances to grab them

defensive rebounds-246

creating steals-280

blocking shots-259

Since we're bringing in better rebounder and finishers, a lot of these stats will improve right away. Some games we were blown out of this year will actually be close down to the wire. That's where free throw shooting becomes an issue.

I'd feel a lot more comfortable if the guys shooting free throws were our best players instead of guys who have been sitting on the bench for 15 min. Hence my hope that one of our better shooters this year proves to be one of our best players next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Since we're bringing in better rebounder and finishers, a lot of these stats will improve right away. Some games we were blown out of this year will actually be close down to the wire. That's where free throw shooting becomes an issue.

I'd feel a lot more comfortable if the guys shooting free throws were our best players instead of guys who have been sitting on the bench for 15 min. Hence my hope that one of our better shooters this year proves to be one of our best players next year.

Fatigue won't be a factor either, due to a lot more depth, which should help across the board.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, brianstl said:

I think all this worrying about free throw shooting is crazy.  Yes, it is frustrating to watch the team miss them so much.  Every year multiple teams that shoot in the  same range as we have this year from the line make the tournament as at large teams.  This isn't even close to being the biggest worry for the team next season.  There are so many other things that need to be improved on before we need to worry about the free throw shooting.  

A list of things........

2pt field goal percentage- we rank 341

3pt field goal percentage-223

generating assists-228

limiting turnovers-215

offensive rebounds-310 It is amazing we rank this low in this category because are shooting percentage generates tons of chances to grab them

defensive rebounds-246

creating steals-280

blocking shots-259

I would add one more stat....PPG...5th worst in the nation. Your stat list looks a lot like my report cards on the spread threads. You are correct in that it is not just the FTs that need to be fixed. Many on the board argue about whether this is the worst Bills team ever. While that point is open to discussion, one thing is clear....this is the worst offensive team ever.

Trying to pull the wagon with a broken free throw wheel makes the going difficult.  In this case though,, we need an entirely new wagon. The new wagon arrives in 6 months.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree, it is like having an old beaten up car with over 300,000 miles in the odometer, bald tires, leaking oil all over, and then the check engine light comes up. Yes, a new car is needed for sure. The good thing is that we are getting one (a new team I mean) and soon. All we need is to keep the current one alive until the new one comes in. I really do not care about the prior history of Bess at MSU, I just hope he is better than Reggie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/24/2017 at 7:05 PM, The Wiz said:

I would add one more stat....PPG...5th worst in the nation. Your stat list looks a lot like my report cards on the spread threads. You are correct in that it is not just the FTs that need to be fixed. Many on the board argue about whether this is the worst Bills team ever. While that point is open to discussion, one thing is clear....this is the worst offensive team ever.

Trying to pull the wagon with a broken free throw wheel makes the going difficult.  In this case though,, we need an entirely new wagon. The new wagon arrives in 6 months.

While I agree that we need help across the board, we already know we're going to be better in most categories. Free throws happen to be one area that we likely will not improve in, and very well may be worse.

Take @brianstl's 2-point FG stat above - one of the absolute worst in the nation. How many layups did SLU miss today? It was nuts. Now, do you think a team with Goodwin, Bess, Foreman, and French are going to be that bad from inside? We're going to make a ridiculous leap in that stat, with four rotation guys who score at the rim like they do.

I'm worried about improvement in other areas but I think we're going to see significant improvement just about everywhere...except that one (easily measurable, translatable) stat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...