Glorydays2013 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I can see Ford starting French and Goodwin in the early season games to get them used to college ball. My starters are Goodwin, Adonys, Bess, Foreman (if healthy) and French with Roby, Welmer and Johnson getting good reliever minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 arguing over which Crews recruit will be best.. none of them will be major components next year in my opinion. Roby will be the guy playing 15 mins a game. Bishop will ride pine allll night. Hines will play up to 10 min a game until Graves is eligible The Crews fantasies are tired. Whole new roster next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 9 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said: I can see Ford starting French and Goodwin in the early season games to get them used to college ball. My starters are Goodwin, Adonys, Bess, Foreman (if healthy) and French with Roby, Welmer and Johnson getting good reliever minutes. Welmer needs to get smarter. He had some truly dumb plays last night. He will be fine if he can shoot a decent % from 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorydays2013 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Welmer would be put to good use on the perimeter on offense and in the paint on defense. His inside game was outmatched by Dayton but he is a real threat from outside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said: Welmer would be put to good use on the perimeter on offense and in the paint on defense. His inside game was outmatched by Dayton but he is a real threat from outside exactly. he will be overmatched by any kind of competent team inside, but he is quick enough to actually play defense. shooting is his niche. Will not be a major minute guy, thats okay if he comes in and hits a 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said: A frontline of French, Foreman, Gordon and Welmer, come 2018, would be the envy of some Big 10 teams, never mind the A10. Having an extra guard is a luxury we can afford to have. Welmer couldn't handle the physical play in the Big 10. He couldn't handle what Dayton brought last night. He pretty much dissappeared in the games against Dayton, Davidson, Alabama, KSU, BYU and Wichita St. The teams we have played with legit front courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 55 minutes ago, brianstl said: Welmer couldn't handle the physical play in the Big 10. He couldn't handle what Dayton brought last night. He pretty much dissappeared in the games against Dayton, Davidson, Alabama, KSU, BYU and Wichita St. The teams we have played with legit front courts. exactly. Welmer has to be a perimeter player. his ballhandling isnt good. pure shooter unless he can develop more ability to dribble...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Watching Welmer last night it was easy to see that he was unable to get his shot off. Dayton would start to close on him and he gave up on the shot. That was the worst game I have seen him play for some time - not sure what was going on in his head. Maybe Ford was right - he built Dayton up so much that the team had the deer in the headlight look. I agree with Bonwich - nobody in their right mind should have expected us to win. Now could we have seen maybe a 12-15 pt loss - sure but a win was a very very long shot. We are no worse off then we were before the game and the Fordham game is key. Everybody needs to get focused on this team for Saturday. As far as Ford's coaching last night - there was nothing to coach. He tried lots of stuff but honestly nothing was going to work - the team was just over matched and it scared them sorry to say. As someone posts - how many weeks left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 2 hours ago, brianstl said: I see Bess as more of a guard. How many guys on a roster do you need to help with the point guard load? Even if Bishop leaves, you have Goodwin, Graves and it is one of the roles Roby has been filling most of the season. I have only seen Bess listed as a forward, never as a guard. In RM's final year, he had KM, MM, JJ and Cassity which worked pretty well... so to answer your question, I like having a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almaman Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 2 hours ago, brianstl said: Welmer couldn't handle the physical play in the Big 10. He couldn't handle what Dayton brought last night. He pretty much dissappeared in the games against Dayton, Davidson, Alabama, KSU, BYU and Wichita St. The teams we have played with legit front courts. He wasn't only guy going stealth against those teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 1 hour ago, ACE said: I have only seen Bess listed as a forward, never as a guard. In RM's final year, he had KM, MM, JJ and Cassity which worked pretty well... so to answer your question, I like having a lot. Bess is listed as a guard/forward on SLU's website. ESPN rated him a 4 star shooting guard coming out of high school. http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/144128/javon-bess Scout had him a a sg, too. http://www.scout.com/player/163088-javon-bess I would agree with you about the PGs if we were going to be running Rickma's offense. I would like to add some bigs with some ball handling ability and passing ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorydays2013 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 With the offer given to that Peace guy, it proves that Ford is recruiting centers so we could see one soon. Problem for me is that centers tend to be one dimensional and slower, which sometimes doesn't work with fast teams. However a true center can put up some serious rebounds if he outmatched the other teams Center Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 16 hours ago, Glorydays2013 said: Welmer would be put to good use on the perimeter on offense and in the paint on defense. His inside game was outmatched by Dayton but he is a real threat from outside 15 hours ago, Soderball said: exactly. Welmer has to be a perimeter player. his ballhandling isnt good. pure shooter unless he can develop more ability to dribble...... Remind me again why it is good for our team to have one of our bigs try to be our outside perimeter threat? A one (1) dimensional (outside shooter) big who gets destroyed on the interior but who is a better outside shooter than most guys his size is good why? Shouldn't our goal be to put the best outside shooter we can find (at any size) out on the floor and to have him take most of our 3 point shots? Last I checked, a big (Welmer) who makes a 3 pointer gets just as many points as a guard who makes a 3 pointer and yet most guards shoot better than bigs/Welmer. Our guys bring the ball down the court, run the offense, look for the best/highest percentage shot -- and I would suggest that should not be Welmer most of the time. Welmer will never shoot like Scott Highmark or Kevin Lisch -- so why should he be on the floor (short of us being so short handed we have no else who can shoot) when he cannot be an interior threat, defend the post, rebound, block out, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 15 hours ago, brianstl said: IBess is listed as a guard/forward on SLU's website. ESPN rated him a 4 star shooting guard coming out of high school. http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/144128/javon-bess Scout had him a a sg, too. http://www.scout.com/player/163088-javon-bess I would agree with you about the PGs if we were going to be running Rickma's offense. I would like to add some bigs with some ball handling ability and passing ability. Interesting that SLU lists him as guard/forward. MSU listed him as a forward on their site. Could simply be an issue of semantics. Some teams consider the 3 a guard or "wing" in the 3-guard offense. There is not much to suggest Bess projects as a prototypical 2 guard in the way Henriquez is. Bess was 1-9 from 3-point range as a sophomore. In the articles that I saw reporting his transfer he was listed as either forward or small forward - which I think is what he will be here. We'll see. Agree a big with ball handling and passing ability would be nice, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if Bess is more likely to play an undersized 4 role than he is a 2. Similar to how Ford has used Johnson. Who knows, there will still likely be an opportunity to add some front court depth this spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Clock_Tower said: Remind me again why it is good for our team to have one of our bigs try to be our outside perimeter threat? A one (1) dimensional (outside shooter) big who gets destroyed on the interior but who is a better outside shooter than most guys his size is good why? Shouldn't our goal be to put the best outside shooter we can find (at any size) out on the floor and to have him take most of our 3 point shots? Last I checked, a big (Welmer) who makes a 3 pointer gets just as many points as a guard who makes a 3 pointer and yet most guards shoot better than bigs/Welmer. Our guys bring the ball down the court, run the offense, look for the best/highest percentage shot -- and I would suggest that should not be Welmer most of the time. Welmer will never shoot like Scott Highmark or Kevin Lisch -- so why should he be on the floor (short of us being so short handed we have no else who can shoot) when he cannot be an interior threat, defend the post, rebound, block out, etc. The thinking goes - create match up imbalances and draw out of the paint their big man thus opening up the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Clock_Tower said: Remind me again why it is good for our team to have one of our bigs try to be our outside perimeter threat? A one (1) dimensional (outside shooter) big who gets destroyed on the interior but who is a better outside shooter than most guys his size is good why? Shouldn't our goal be to put the best outside shooter we can find (at any size) out on the floor and to have him take most of our 3 point shots? Last I checked, a big (Welmer) who makes a 3 pointer gets just as many points as a guard who makes a 3 pointer and yet most guards shoot better than bigs/Welmer. Our guys bring the ball down the court, run the offense, look for the best/highest percentage shot -- and I would suggest that should not be Welmer most of the time. Welmer will never shoot like Scott Highmark or Kevin Lisch -- so why should he be on the floor (short of us being so short handed we have no else who can shoot) when he cannot be an interior threat, defend the post, rebound, block out, etc. You're arguing against yourself again. The only guy who shoots threes at a better clip than Welmer right now is Roby. When one of your best shooters happens to be tall, you let him shoot threes. That was also the case Majerus' last year, when Ellis had the best % on the team and therefore got to shoot a lot of threes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, cheeseman said: The thinking goes - create match up imbalances and draw out of the paint their big man thus opening up the middle. The presence of Loe played a big part in Jett's success at driving to the hoop. Even if his 3-point percentage wasn't always great, the threat of Loe shooting the three created a lot of open lanes to the basket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Clock_Tower said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSmetBilliken Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 15 hours ago, brianstl said: Bess is listed as a guard/forward on SLU's website. ESPN rated him a 4 star shooting guard coming out of high school. http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/144128/javon-bess Scout had him a a sg, too. http://www.scout.com/player/163088-javon-bess I would agree with you about the PGs if we were going to be running Rickma's offense. I would like to add some bigs with some ball handling ability and passing ability. After the game the other night, I watched some highlight videos of the transfers and freshmen for next season. One that I watched was Izzo talking about Bess when he signed at MSU. Izzo suggested that Bess was pretty versatile, and could probably play the 1-3 on offense, and 1-4 in defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 1 minute ago, ACE said: The presence of Loe played a big part in Jett's success at driving to the hoop. Even if his 3-point percentage wasn't always great, the threat of Loe shooting the three created a lot of open lanes to the basket. Loe brought a lot more to the table. He was an excellent passer out of the high post. He saw the floor so well and really understood the importance of spacing. I don't see any of that right now with Welmer. Loe could handle the ball well for a big man and was a much better defender than Welmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 50 minutes ago, brianstl said: Loe brought a lot more to the table. He was an excellent passer out of the high post. He saw the floor so well and really understood the importance of spacing. I don't see any of that right now with Welmer. Loe could handle the ball well for a big man and was a much better defender than Welmer. Other than that, they're practically the same player! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 That's why I think Ellis is a better comparison. Ellis couldn't defend at all until he developed into the charge taking specialist. But when the team was low on three point shooting options, he was often the best option available. Fast forward to next year and I think we could be in a similar situation with Welmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 We must keep in mind Welmer is a Freshman and that he spent a full year without competitive play (or practice) as he carried his foot around in that wheelie contraption he had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSmetBilliken Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, Box and Won said: Other than that, they're practically the same player! Reminds me of my thoughts while watching highlights of DJ Foreman. People here seemed to think that because DJ's stats at Rutgers were similar to Reggie's here last year, we were getting a similar player. DJ is Reggie if Reggie was taller, had a jump shot, more coordination, and better ball handling skills. Other than that, yeah, they're the same player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Clock_Tower said: Remind me again why it is good for our team to have one of our bigs try to be our outside perimeter threat? Welmer will never shoot like Scott Highmark or Kevin Lisch -- so why should he be on the floor (short of us being so short handed we have no else who can shoot) when he cannot be an interior threat, defend the post, rebound, block out, etc. First, I am sure we can agree that you have more basketball knowledge than anyone on this board, except for perhaps Soderballs. So for us uneducated MBM's, please interpret these stats from each player's freshman year regarding shooting the three point shot. Lisch, 140 3's attempted / 58 made / 41.4% Highmark, 141 / 52 / 36.9% McCall, 112 / 41 36.6% Welmer, 75 / 27 / 36.0% Mitchell 119 / 42 / 35.3% Loe, 96 / 32 / 33.7% Claggett 103 / 34 / 33.0% Ellis 130 / 39 / 30.0% It is also stipulated that you know more than Coach Ford. His statement on his Coach's show several weeks ago is that Welmer has very good post moves, but the team has trouble getting him the ball. You may want to tell Soderballs to correct Coach at his next personal meeting. And I am sure you know, but have decided it is irrelevant, that Welmer is our second leading rebounder. Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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