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Next year's bench


ACE

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There has been a lot of hand-wringing about next year's bench, but as things stand now, I think it will be quite strong - much better than most Billiken teams of the past. Not as good as RM's last year when Jordair and Ellis were coming off the bench (that was the best I remember), but still good enough for a good team. If you make the assumption that the 6 newcomers are the best (perhaps French is the 6th man), players 7-10 in the rotation figure to be in no particular order Bishop, Welmer, Johnson and Roby - that will be better than most A-10 benches. Also keep in mind these guys won't be called on to play 25-30 minutes per game.  I think a bigger concern is will our 6 newcomers be as good as we hope? How our front end talent performs will have a much greater impact on our postseason chances than how the back end of the roster plays.

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20 minutes ago, ACE said:

There has been a lot of hand-wringing about next year's bench, but as things stand now, I think it will be quite strong - much better than most Billiken teams of the past. Not as good as RM's last year when Jordair and Ellis were coming off the bench (that was the best I remember), but still good enough for a good team. If you make the assumption that the 6 newcomers are the best (perhaps French is the 6th man), players 7-10 in the rotation figure to be in no particular order Bishop, Welmer, Johnson and Roby - that will be better than most A-10 benches. Also keep in mind these guys won't be called on to play 25-30 minutes per game.  I think a bigger concern is will our 6 newcomers be as good as we hope? How our front end talent performs will have a much greater impact on our postseason chances than how the back end of the roster plays.

Agreed. The big question mark about next year's team is not who gets 10 minutes a game as the 8th or 9th man. It's whether the transfers and to a lesser extent Goodwin/French are really good...and healthy.

Open practice Friday for those that want to GOSEETHEKIDSPLAY.

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51 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I agree that we will have one of the stronger benches. And assuming Goodwin, Henriquez and Bess are our starting 1, 2 and 3 then Graves would come off the bench.

If your starting 1-4 are Goodwin, Henriquez, Bess, and Foreman/French, I actually think I'd start Welmer at 5.  IMO you need another guy in that lineup who can space the floor rather than a guy who bangs inside or makes a living driving to the hole.  Henriquez is the only shooter in that 1-4 and then Goodwin is probably the next best.

I'm not saying I wouldn't ever play Foreman & French playing together, but I'd probably do it with Johnson, Graves, or Roby as the 3 instead of Bess so I've got more of an outside look there.  Further, I actually think our best lineups next year might be going small with Foreman / French inside and then some Combo of Bess, Johnson, Roby, Graves, Henriquez, and/or Goodwin as the other 4.

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This will be an interesting topic until we have our first game.  A couple of points that I will let Soderballs contradict.

First, it's really not 'the bench' but it's minutes that we are talking about here.  As Coach M said, starting is for high school. 

Who will run the team is really my largest question.  Coach Ford has made a lot of interesting comments on how difficult it is run a team.  Last week he said he has been able to put in more plays because Crawford is on the floor to get everyone in the right position.  He said Crawford gets it.  Who will 'get it' next year?

Will Coach give the reigns to a freshman who has not played point?  Graves doesn't come on board until 2nd semester.  He will have the benefit of practicing with the team this year and will understand the system, but Coach has called him a shooter who can play both guard positions.  Might Bishop be our staring PG?

Can French and Foreman be on the floor at the same time for multiple minutes, both occupying the paint?   

Who can hit the three point shot?  Henriquez appears to be the only one of the three transfers who is reliable behind the line.  Hmmm, we may need Welmer, Johnson, Roby and Moore more than you think.    Bess is 2 of 11 from behind the arc (yuck), Foreman 6 of 15 (one shot every 4 games), and Graves only 12 of 33. 

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19 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Where did you see that? Thanks in advance for any additional info, anyone mind me sitting with them (I don't have any friends)?

I can't actually go as it's during work hours but hopefully others can attend and report back

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Bess played the 4 at Michigan State. When he was on the floor, he didn't get many shot opportunities at all, never mind 3 point shots. Jalen has a chance to beat him out at the 3 spot if he continues to shoot it well and gets stronger over the summer. Or Goodwin could start at the 3 if he struggles playing the point.

As was mentioned, Graves won't be available at the start of the season. Hope Bishop chooses to stick around. There's definitely quality minutes at the point to be had, either as a starter or a backup.

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5 hours ago, RUBillsFan said:

If your starting 1-4 are Goodwin, Henriquez, Bess, and Foreman/French, I actually think I'd start Welmer at 5.  IMO you need another guy in that lineup who can space the floor rather than a guy who bangs inside or makes a living driving to the hole.  Henriquez is the only shooter in that 1-4 and then Goodwin is probably the next best.

I'm not saying I wouldn't ever play Foreman & French playing together, but I'd probably do it with Johnson, Graves, or Roby as the 3 instead of Bess so I've got more of an outside look there.  Further, I actually think our best lineups next year might be going small with Foreman / French inside and then some Combo of Bess, Johnson, Roby, Graves, Henriquez, and/or Goodwin as the other 4.

Great post. 

French and Foreman actually seem to have jumpers, but not quite 3pt range. Both would be complemented nicely by Welmer. I think Johnson and Bess will end up playing the 4 as well, and we know Johnson has a respectable stroke. 

One would think the offense will be more effective with 3 shooters out there, so I anticipate clever rotations to make sure that happens. I'd guess Welmer and Johnson rotate and then Foreman and French man the other post spot, occasionally playing together with a shooter-heavy backcourt (e.g., Graves-Henriquez-Roby). 

 

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8 hours ago, Zink said:

Great post. 

French and Foreman actually seem to have jumpers, but not quite 3pt range. Both would be complemented nicely by Welmer. I think Johnson and Bess will end up playing the 4 as well, and we know Johnson has a respectable stroke. 

One would think the offense will be more effective with 3 shooters out there, so I anticipate clever rotations to make sure that happens. I'd guess Welmer and Johnson rotate and then Foreman and French man the other post spot, occasionally playing together with a shooter-heavy backcourt (e.g., Graves-Henriquez-Roby). 

 

Agree with RU and Zink. Welmer's ability to stretch the floor will be the key to him sticking around. Ideally he would develop into a poor man's Ellis/Loe. If he does this, he will be an even greater weapon/different look off the bench when Gordon arrives. 

Johnson is 6'7" (to Welmer's 6'9") and has shown some range, so they may asked to do some similar things as far as spacing. Though with the style of basketball Ford prefers, Johnson's athleticism may give him a leg up.. and he was his recruit. 

I don't think we'll be a great 3-point shooting team, but we'll be expecting everyone to be capable of knocking down their open looks. If Goodwin is starting at PG, he will need to be in control of himself/make sound decisions from the jump. We're all looking forward to his Jett-like drives to the rim, but he will be getting a ton of minutes with the ball, especially if Bishop moves on. Not sure what to expect from Graves, but I would be a lot more concerned in this area if he hadn't signed on. 

I imagine Foreman and French will be living (eating) in the paint, but if they are able to show range similar to Evans that would be fantastic, again, even more so with Gordon coming in. 

Like kshoe, not worried about how the bench shakes out at all right now. It'll be on the guys getting major minutes. The "role players" should be able to carry their weight in our league. I like Roby to be the classic glue guy/team leader, and really hope we can get him to some meaningful games as a senior. 

The wait is nearly over. 

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Just relieved to see Johnson and Wellmer coming on strong here of late. That eases the mind that we're not going into next year w/ just 6 D1 level talents. Also, Roby is showing that he can contribute in Ford's system and would expect more when he's surrounded by the talent upgrade. Don't want to get too far ahead of myself here, but given the fact the A10 is down this year and not much better next year (although, there's no good reason to make that claim) we might be in for a selection Sunday surprise. That's assuming the transfers and our two prized FR are as good as advertised. Even if we don't reach that lofty goal, at a minimum we'll field a team that we can once again take some pride in and bring this 3 year nightmare to a merciful end.  

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I think the addition of Graves really helps the bench next year. If you go with a Goodwin, Henriquez, Bess, Foreman/French, Welmer starting 5 which seems pretty logical, it gives you Graves, Johnson, French/Foreman as your top 3 off the bench. I think that is pretty good. Having a senior like Roby as your 9th man is very solid and I'm not typically a fan of going any deeper than 9 guys on your roster. I know Graves isn't eligible until the first semester ends, but I see the first month or two getting off to a slow-ish start anyway since we are bringing in so many new players. Bishop is an interesting case. I think he would be a fine player when not counted on to actually run the team. Let him come off the bench and play as an undersized scorer. But at the same time, if Ford can bring in an upgrade (even if it's a transfer who has to sit out next year), I would probably rather go in that direction. I don't think it's unreasonable to think Ford will be active in the transfer market again so this spring will be very interesting. 

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15 hours ago, ACE said:

There has been a lot of hand-wringing about next year's bench, but as things stand now, I think it will be quite strong - much better than most Billiken teams of the past. Not as good as RM's last year when Jordair and Ellis were coming off the bench (that was the best I remember), but still good enough for a good team. If you make the assumption that the 6 newcomers are the best (perhaps French is the 6th man), players 7-10 in the rotation figure to be in no particular order Bishop, Welmer, Johnson and Roby - that will be better than most A-10 benches. Also keep in mind these guys won't be called on to play 25-30 minutes per game.  I think a bigger concern is will our 6 newcomers be as good as we hope? How our front end talent performs will have a much greater impact on our postseason chances than how the back end of the roster plays.

Good topic Ace, the guys coming back have won games and if they had bench help would probably win more.  We see our current team play hard improve and run out of gas and fade at the end of games because they are worn out because of too many minutes.  Welmer, Roby, Johnson, Bishop will help out next season and give coach Ford a lot of options.  Tick Tick Tick 6 more weeks until we start dreaming of a better Billiken season.

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It's remarkable how this board shifts almost on a weekly basis.  A week or two ago it was Bishop who was written off for next year.  Now it is Moore. 

No one knows, except for the players and maybe the staff, who is thinking about leaving and who will return. But this is what we do on message boards.

Very few are mentioning Hines except how he would be wasting his time coming back.  Remember we didn't need him last year, and he played a ton.  We didn't need him this year, and now without him, we would be totally lost.  He is playing 30+ minutes a game. The kid has nine lives. 

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2 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

It's remarkable how this board shifts almost on a weekly basis.  A week or two ago it was Bishop who was written off for next year.  Now it is Moore. 

No one knows, except for the players and maybe the staff, who is thinking about leaving and who will return. But this is what we do on message boards.

Very few are mentioning Hines except how he would be wasting his time coming back.  Remember we didn't need him last year, and he played a ton.  We didn't need him this year, and now without him, we would be totally lost.  He is playing 30+ minutes a game. The kid has nine lives. 

I think some were not sure about some of these players earlier in the season and I admit I began to wonder about 3 of the 4 players I mentioned.  I have never wondered about Bishop and I hope he stays.  Welmer, Roby, and Johnson are playing hard and improving.  I agree with you about Hines without him we do not have two conference wins and the potential for more wins.  I hope Hines stays as a walk on however a team like SIUE would probably be happy to have him on a scholarship.

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3 hours ago, slufanskip said:

I think we shouldn't be so quick to write off Roby for next year. Experience is valuable and Roby though not a star is a solid player all around.

Bingo.  very important come march. 

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12 minutes ago, CBFan said:

I think some were not sure about some of these players earlier in the season and I admit I began to wonder about 3 of the 4 players I mentioned.  I have never wondered about Bishop and I hope he stays.  Welmer, Roby, and Johnson are playing hard and improving.  I agree with you about Hines without him we do not have two conference wins and the potential for more wins.  I hope Hines stays as a walk on however a team like SIUE would probably be happy to have him on a scholarship.

I think the top players returning from this team are, in this order:  Hines, Welmer, Johnson, Roby, Bishop, and Moore.  Bishop could easily be number one, if he was able to drop turnovers like Hines did. Roby could be number one as well, as he can handle the point and defend.  We have repeatedly experienced how important a good point guard is over the past three years. Right now we have someone who is decent.  I think getting him a scholarship should be a priority.  I mean, bird in the hand is better than one in the bush.

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36 minutes ago, CBFan said:

  I hope Hines stays as a walk on however a team like SIUE would probably be happy to have him on a scholarship.

Think about this scenario:  Bishop doesn't come back and Goodwin hasn't fully recovered from his surgery for heavy D1 action by October.  Mr. Hines, p l e a s e accept our offer to continue walking on.

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1 hour ago, AnkielBreakers said:

I think the top players returning from this team are, in this order:  Hines, Welmer, Johnson, Roby, Bishop, and Moore.  Bishop could easily be number one, if he was able to drop turnovers like Hines did. Roby could be number one as well, as he can handle the point and defend.  We have repeatedly experienced how important a good point guard is over the past three years. Right now we have someone who is decent.  I think getting him a scholarship should be a priority.  I mean, bird in the hand is better than one in the bush.

Hines still has a 1:1 turnover ratio, which is not good. Just because he is our only healthy point guard does not mean that he is a good basketball player. He's been invaluable to this year's team, but if he continues to have a role next year, our team is not Dancing. Keeping him around would be a very minor priority if I were Ford. 

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