What do we think of the freshman thus far?

[Billy Ken]

Just curious what everyone thinks about the freshmen so far this season. I think they will only get better as the team gathers more talent over the years. Thoughts?

[Taj79]

Well, yes.  But other than Johnson, the others are best spot or role players at best right now.  And that's more Welmer than Moore.  Moore frankly has shown me he's a typical he-who-is-dead-to-me recruit.

[majerus mojo]

Johnson really showed out in that George Mason game, I had no idea who could get hot from 3 like that. At his size that would be fantastic to have 

[CBFan]

Incomplete right now I like some things I have seen with JJ and Elliot but I want to see more from them as the conference seasons moves on to completion.

[Soderball]

19 hours ago, Taj79 said:

Well, yes.  But other than Johnson, the others are best spot or role players at best right now.  And that's more Welmer than Moore.  Moore frankly has shown me he's a typical he-who-is-dead-to-me recruit.

Zeke's shot has not been where it needs to be, and honestly he hasnt shown me that he has other redeeming qualities.

the best thing that can be said about him is that he is a local kid...............

 

Now he is missing playing time with injuries? Will injuries be recurring?

Crews was so, so, so bad.

Ive stated consistently that I would be completely unbothered if every Crews recruit left this offseason. We are grasping at straws hoping that maybe possibly conceivably a Crews recruit might potentially have the ability to contribute in some esoteric mysterious way.

 

Maybe, but they could also wind up injured or not living up to those expectations. Having 0 guys who you know for sure will be HIGH IMPACT out of an entire roster of players is beyond pathetic.

Welmer due to his unconventional play style and potential to offer a 6 10 three point threat is interesting to me, but I havent been seeing it recently. He has 0 potential if he cant start impacting with that aspect of his game.

Roby should be able to play, otherwise.. not really interested.

Fire Jim Crews.

[slufan13]

I'm fine with Ford upgrading the roster however he sees fit. I would like Johnson and Welmer to stay. I wouldn't lose sleep over anyone else going and even Johnson and Welmer will hopefully one day be upgraded. But my biggest concern for next year is still the bench so if you can get an improved Johnson and Welmer in coming in against the opposing team's bench guys, I will feel like we can hold our ground more times than not.

[Soderball]

6 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I'm fine with Ford upgrading the roster however he sees fit. I would like Johnson and Welmer to stay. I wouldn't lose sleep over anyone else going and even Johnson and Welmer will hopefully one day be upgraded. But my biggest concern for next year is still the bench so if you can get an improved Johnson and Welmer in coming in against the opposing team's bench guys, I will feel like we can hold our ground more times than not.

Moore's game is completely one-dimensional, which is a concern that was brought up during his recruitment.

Johnson is a Ford recruit and probably our best player.

As I said, Welmer needs to show that he can channel Rob Loe. I want to see better and more frequent distance shooting from him. He would not be missed if he cannot get that going for himself.

The bench is going to be terrible next year. that's why Ford is bringing in an 8(!!!)(i expect Ford to deliver a few more players in the offseason, i cant keep up with how many it will actually be. this number is my speculation) man recruiting class. he is building a new program in 18 months. Even RM could not turn things around like Ford is doing. Ford is a genius.

I dont know how next year will be, but for the first time in 4 years the Billikens will be able to take to the court with a reasonable expectation of winning.

 

8 means a new starting lineup AND a new bench. we will be fine.

[AnkielBreakers]

Moore has struggled lately, and I think people are bit too down on him.  He is a 6'6" SG that can jump, defend, shoot, and doesn't turn the ball over.  He is a good athlete. The ceiling is high for him.  He needs to get stronger and more confident.  I am fine with sticking with him.  

[willie]

19 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Moore has struggled lately, and I think people are bit too down on him.  He is a 6'6" SG that can jump, defend, shoot, and doesn't turn the ball over.  He is a good athlete. The ceiling is high for him.  He needs to get stronger and more confident.  I am fine with sticking with him.  

I agree. He moves well. Passes well. Needs confidence.

[juniorbill76]

I found this interesting, for context:

 

[Old guy]

I never played basketball in competition, but I would assume that when you enter a team at a much higher level than the one you played at in High School, several things happen. First you are insecure of yourself and your moves are wooden compared to other higher level players. Second you learn from those around you. You need people to tell you the fine points and to help you out in the court. In other words, the whole process is a lot easier when you are playing in a functional well staffed team. This is not the case with the Bills this year. We need to give Moore a break, he is learning the hard way. He is a kid, trying to become a whole lot more in a very short time, under a lot of pressure, and with very little team support around him in the court.  I think we need to cut him a fair amount of slack.

[Soderball]

50 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Moore has struggled lately, and I think people are bit too down on him.  He is a 6'6" SG that can jump, defend, shoot, and doesn't turn the ball over.  He is a good athlete. The ceiling is high for him.  He needs to get stronger and more confident.  I am fine with sticking with him.  

but he isnt shooting or defending well... i cant make claims about jumping.. but it hasnt stood out to me.. he doesnt turn it over as much because he doesnt touch the ball much.. 0.96 ATO ratio

[Soderball]

1 hour ago, Old guy said:

I never played basketball in competition, but I would assume that when you enter a team at a much higher level than the one you played at in High School, several things happen. First you are insecure of yourself and your moves are wooden compared to other higher level players. Second you learn from those around you. You need people to tell you the fine points and to help you out in the court. In other words, the whole process is a lot easier when you are playing in a functional well staffed team. This is not the case with the Bills this year. We need to give Moore a break, he is learning the hard way. He is a kid, trying to become a whole lot more in a very short time, under a lot of pressure, and with very little team support around him in the court.  I think we need to cut him a fair amount of slack.

I'll agree; but he is not a stud player.

If his shot doesnt stack up he wont do much. the team being beyond horrible at ball distribution is a major factor here.

 

Hopefully next time he plays he lands 10 treys. that will change my tune real quick. he was damned good shooting in high school.

[slufan13]

Moore is shooting 25% from 2 and 31% from 3

[Soderball]

32 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Moore is shooting 25% from 2 and 31% from 3

bingo.

[Glorydays2013]

1 hour ago, slufan13 said:

Moore is shooting 25% from 2 and 31% from 3

So I have no idea why I am I am getting torn apart for saying he needs to go. See if this was next year, and he was a bench freshmen and we were killing it in the season and winning games... fine. But we are getting probably one of the worst seasons in SLU history and he hasnt proved he can play on this team. What use will we have when we start bringing in McDonalds all americans with Gordan next year and who knows what crazy recruits we might get. 

[kmbilliken]

Players improve. The improvement from freshman to sophomore is often dramatic. Jordair Jett was turnover prone and couldn't shoot his freshman year. Sophomore year he pushed Kyle Cassidy out of the rotation.

Moore shows enough with ball handling, speed and defensive effort to give him a chance to develope. If he could improve his shot and strength he could end up good player. He deserves that chance. You don't just push kids out the door because they are not an immediate star. If they obviously can't make it, then have the talk. Moore is not in that category.

[goonaha]

11 minutes ago, kmbilliken said:

Players improve. The improvement from freshman to sophomore is often dramatic. Jordair Jett was turnover prone and couldn't shoot his freshman year. Sophomore year he pushed Kyle Cassidy out of the rotation.

Moore shows enough with ball handling, speed and defensive effort to give him a chance to develope. If he could improve his shot and strength he could end up good player. He deserves that chance. You don't just push kids out the door because they are not an immediate star. If they obviously can't make it, then have the talk. Moore is not in that category.

Agee with this sentiment. The tone and language that some posters use when they talk about 18-21 year old kids is rather alarming.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I think the appropriate wise-guy answer to the question in the headline is, "Which one?"

[Zink]

I wholeheartedly agree with those saying that development can be dramatic from year to year, but I'll chime in with what I've seen as each guys' biggest strength and weakness. 

Johnson: He just looks like he loves playing and brings so much energy. Surprisingly good on the glass for such a skinny guy because of this. Solid across the board with skills, but not great at any one thing. He just needs to get more consistent, really, 

Moore: Both his strength and weakness lie in his shot. When he gets a good look, he's money. But he sometimes forces things and also has a slow release, leading to too many contested shots. If he can work on creating space and speeding up his mechanics, he'll be an asset. But as slufan13 noted, his shooting numbers right now are abysmal for the reasons listed above. 

Welmer: Easily our most efficient offensive  player. Great shot for a big, and not terrible in the post as a scorer or passer. Ideally he gets better defensively, as someone noted in the UMass GDT that he has a tendency to slap at the ball leading to easy and-1 opportunities. 

[Glorydays2013]

I would like to take back what I said about some of the freshmen. I just watched a short doc on Frank Kaminsky and it shows how the guy was a nobody until a few games in his junior year when he broke the school record out of nowhere and then was competing for player of the year. Sometimes it just takes people to click. For Frank, it was confidence they said, and once he had that he was unstoppable 

[HoosierPal]

8 hours ago, Zink said:

I wholeheartedly agree with those saying that development can be dramatic from year to year, but I'll chime in with what I've seen as each guys' biggest strength and weakness. 

Johnson: He just looks like he loves playing and brings so much energy. Surprisingly good on the glass for such a skinny guy because of this. Solid across the board with skills, but not great at any one thing. He just needs to get more consistent, really, 

Moore: Both his strength and weakness lie in his shot. When he gets a good look, he's money. But he sometimes forces things and also has a slow release, leading to too many contested shots. If he can work on creating space and speeding up his mechanics, he'll be an asset. But as slufan13 noted, his shooting numbers right now are abysmal for the reasons listed above. 

Welmer: Easily our most efficient offensive  player. Great shot for a big, and not terrible in the post as a scorer or passer. Ideally he gets better defensively, as someone noted in the UMass GDT that he has a tendency to slap at the ball leading to easy and-1 opportunities. 

I am pretty much in agreement, Mr. Zink, with your opinion of our frogs.  Johnson needs to get stronger.  Once he gains some muscle, he will be a dynamite SF. I don't see him as a back to the basket PF.  Right now he has trouble guarding opponent's big guys, but again, get the muscle and that will take care of itself. 

To me Moore's release is a little low.  He may lead the team in shots blocked by opponent.  His numbers (%) have sagged somewhat in conference play.  His best game so far was against Wichita State, 11 points, 3 of 7 from the arc.  The skills are there.  We could have used him last night to help bring the ball up the floor.

Welmer has better ball handling skills than I expected.  Last night he was the back pass relief on UMass's press, at least for a good portion of the game.  He brought the ball across the line several times after the back pass.  He too needs muscle.  To me his biggest deficiency is on Defense, where he is a step slow.  His stats are tracking favorably with Rob Loe's freshman year, actually trending slightly higher.  He could develop into a great stretch 4.  I'm not seeing anyone else on this or next year's roster that could fit that slot.

They are all keepers for me, but Ford is in charge.

[Soderball]

45 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I am pretty much in agreement, Mr. Zink, with your opinion of our frogs.  Johnson needs to get stronger.  Once he gains some muscle, he will be a dynamite SF. I don't see him as a back to the basket PF.  Right now he has trouble guarding opponent's big guys, but again, get the muscle and that will take care of itself. 

To me Moore's release is a little low.  He may lead the team in shots blocked by opponent.  His numbers (%) have sagged somewhat in conference play.  His best game so far was against Wichita State, 11 points, 3 of 7 from the arc.  The skills are there.  We could have used him last night to help bring the ball up the floor.

Welmer has better ball handling skills than I expected.  Last night he was the back pass relief on UMass's press, at least for a good portion of the game.  He brought the ball across the line several times after the back pass.  He too needs muscle.  To me his biggest deficiency is on Defense, where he is a step slow.  His stats are tracking favorably with Rob Loe's freshman year, actually trending slightly higher.  He could develop into a great stretch 4.  I'm not seeing anyone else on this or next year's roster that could fit that slot.

They are all keepers for me, but Ford is in charge.

Anyone suggesting that Ford recruit JJ will not be back is foolish.

I have not been impressed with Moore, and to me his game is far too one-dimensional to accept lacklustre shooting for large stretches of time. I am pessimistic on "project" players by default. I've seen more fail to pan out than those who make it. Hoping against hope is not the way to win.

 

Welmer, due to his unique skills and body type could be impact off the bench. If he has the kind of development that ZM will need to even see the floor, EW will be all-conference. I think EW's ceiling is huge. The shot must be there to keep Welmers game relevant and meaningful. He will not be a good traditional center or power forward. He is there to screw with opposing defense, he can do that.

The drives he tried last night were totally unacceptable. He did hit some massive shots. He needs to learn and play to his strengths and downplay and avoid his weaknesses. Will be easier with a fleshed out roster.. Guys have to do everything when playing 6-7 players.

[almaman]

If JJ AND EW are on team next year and don't get significant minutes and aren't injured we will be dancing. I will be happy with .500 and signs of greatness to come all around. If that is the case those 2 will be involved. 

[Soderball]

20 hours ago, kmbilliken said:

Players improve. The improvement from freshman to sophomore is often dramatic. Jordair Jett was turnover prone and couldn't shoot his freshman year. Sophomore year he pushed Kyle Cassidy out of the rotation.

Moore shows enough with ball handling, speed and defensive effort to give him a chance to develope. If he could improve his shot and strength he could end up good player. He deserves that chance. You don't just push kids out the door because they are not an immediate star. If they obviously can't make it, then have the talk. Moore is not in that category.

comparing ZM to Jordair is really fringe stuff.