Incoming recruits - updates (2017)

[3star_recruit]

55 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

Hasahn French is gonna show us dunks we haven't seen from a SLU player, maybe ever. Willie dunked a lot but didn't really posterize like Hasahn will. 

We're definitely in uncharted territory with French. Dunking over someone's outstretched hand is one thing.  Elevating, absorbing contact and still power dunking with two hands is something else altogether.

[slu72]

Really impressed with French from the videos and that article. As I recall, he was under everyone's radar until he started strutting his stuff in AAU ball. Still, I think he had some offers from a few bigs and a lot of interest from our A10 brethren. He strikes me as the type of athletic PFs we see a lot of in the A10. Nice get, Travis. Despite our recent "small" successes in recent games, it's the anticipation about next year that keeps us going. Here's hoping Goodwin's recovery goes smoothly. As Old Guy said, every person's recovery timetable is unique, but I expect young Mr. Goodwin to treat rehab with dedication and resolve. Just don't overdo it and set yourself back further. I know nothing about shoulder injuries, but it strikes me they tend to linger. Wasn't it shoulder injuries that both Grandy and Reggie wrestled with over their time at SLU?

Getting way ahead of myself here and recognizing starting's for HS, but my way too early prediction for a starting 5 next year is, Goodwin, Henriquez, Bess, French, and, dare I say it, Wellmer. Still hoping Travis can find a decent big this spring, hopefully from the JUCO ranks ala Kenny Brown,  a 5th year transfer, or an international.  Can't see where a graduating senior project at 5 will help much next season.  We had that in Gillman and Neufeld and am hoping those days are behind us.

[almaman]

I think Roby will start at beginning of season. He's a senior, playing hard.

[billikenfan05]

You know who puts people on posters? Mike Crawford

[HoosierPal]

3 hours ago, gobillsgo said:

Hasahn French is gonna show us dunks we haven't seen from a SLU player, maybe ever. Willie dunked a lot but didn't really posterize like Hasahn will. 

I don't know man, Crawford's one handed slam was pretty special last night.  Earl said it was the best Billiken dunk he has ever seen, FWIW.

[NextYearBill]

16 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I don't know man, Crawford's one handed slam was pretty special last night.  Earl said it was the best Billiken dunk he has ever seen, FWIW.

jordair jett has missed dunks that rank high on the best Billiken dunk list.... 

[DeSmetBilliken]

27 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I don't know man, Crawford's one handed slam was pretty special last night.  Earl said it was the best Billiken dunk he has ever seen, FWIW.

It was pretty good. This goes back a few years, but the two best I can think of are Tommie Liddell with a putback against GW, and Maurice Jeffers dunking over a St. Bonaventure player.

[MusicCityBilliken]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

I don't know man, Crawford's one handed slam was pretty special last night.  Earl said it was the best Billiken dunk he has ever seen, FWIW.

I saw Cory Remeken jam one at LaSalle and I told him after the game it should make the ESPN plays of the week.

Majerus had a in bounds play for Willie which had some spectacular dunks.

[slu72]

Mo Jeffers dunk against St. B's was Dr. J esque. He started his leap from just ahead of the FT line and soared over the guy. That one play may have got him drafted in the second round, although he had a pretty good all around SR year at SLU.

[Glorydays2013]

I don't know if this was talked about but Adonys is listed on the SLUBillikens website to be ranked as high as 36 on ESPN 100 his SENIOR year. Yet Espn doesn't have him even nationally ranked, other than a 4* and other reports were that he was listed at 43 when he committed to Miami. Did he have a huge falling out his senior year?

[Littlebill]

22 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

I don't know if this was talked about but Adonys is listed on the SLUBillikens website to be ranked as high as 36 on ESPN 100 his SENIOR year. Yet Espn doesn't have him even nationally ranked, other than a 4* and other reports were that he was listed at 43 when he committed to Miami. Did he have a huge falling out his senior year?

What are you asking?

[Glorydays2013]

11 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

What are you asking?

I asked if he had a huge falling out his senior year... He went from top 50 to not ranked. I am wondering what happned

[slufan13]

2 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

I asked if he had a huge falling out his senior year... He went from top 50 to not ranked. I am wondering what happned

Marquette offered.

[Glorydays2013]

I am asking a legitimate question, don't get why people are being defensive. Is there a real answer why he went from top 50 his senior year to not top 100?

[DeSmetBilliken]

9 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

I am asking a legitimate question, don't get why people are being defensive. Is there a real answer why he went from top 50 his senior year to not top 100?

I don't know. He might not have been a consensus Top 50 player when ESPN ranked him there. Maybe they changed the ranking to correspond to his rankings by other services, maybe he had a down year, maybe ESPN dropped him because he was going to Central Florida instead of an ACC school.

[Glorydays2013]

8 minutes ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

I don't know. He might not have been a consensus Top 50 player when ESPN ranked him there. Maybe they changed the ranking to correspond to his rankings by other services, maybe he had a down year, maybe ESPN dropped him because he was going to Central Florida instead of an ACC school.

I did some research which was difficult since he transferred, a lot of articles on him seemed to be deleted/ the links stopped working, even ESPN. From what I can understand, he committed to Miami at around a top 40, got his ranking dropped to around 80, then decided to stay home instead of Butler, which for some reason knocked him out of top 100 from ESPN, and then others followed. I guess I am only bringing this up since he seems to be a huge sleeper, and I think he might be our top scorer next year. Him and Bess are legitimate 4* who should have just as much potential as Goodwin and French. Ford is absolutely right when he says we have a top 10 class coming in if including the transfers

[For-DaLove]

15 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

I did some research which was difficult since he transferred, a lot of articles on him seemed to be deleted/ the links stopped working, even ESPN. From what I can understand, he committed to Miami at around a top 40, got his ranking dropped to around 80, then decided to stay home instead of Butler, which for some reason knocked him out of top 100 from ESPN, and then others followed. I guess I am only bringing this up since he seems to be a huge sleeper, and I think he might be our top scorer next year. Him and Bess are legitimate 4* who should have just as much potential as Goodwin and French. Ford is absolutely right when he says we have a top 10 class coming in if including the transfers

You realize the transfers have already played in college, right? We can look at those results instead of arbitrary high school rankings.

[Glorydays2013]

9 minutes ago, For-DaLove said:

You realize the transfers have already played in college, right? We can look at those results instead of arbitrary high school rankings.

I would tend to agree, but also there are many factors to disagree about. For one, Adonys is a top scorer from a fairly decent team at UCF, I feel can he only improve at the A10 and Ford. Bess came from one of the best programs in the nation with Michigan State, but stats don't look too well, largely due to injury and being on one of the most competitive rosters in the country, injury doesn't help that. I believe with certainty that Bess will have much better numbers next year. Foreman proved to do well against B10 talent at Rutgers and should do well again next year pending injury. Graves will be a great impact player who again we can't judge his performance at BC since there seemed to be something going on with him and the team or coach

[wgstl]

9 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

I would tend to agree, but also there are many factors to disagree about. For one, Adonys is a top scorer from a fairly decent team at UCF, 

So you would rather read up on him with 3 year old high school info, rather than 2 years at a D1 school?

[Glorydays2013]

15 minutes ago, wgstl said:

So you would rather read up on him with 3 year old high school info, rather than 2 years at a D1 school?

haha maybe for hype, yes, But what I talked about him at UCF, he seems to be very impressive there as an underclassmen, which I talked about

[Pistol]

http://www.draftexpress.com/RSCI/2014/

If you want a snapshot of where our recruits landed in the final 2014 HS rankings, the above link is a good leaping-off point.

Foreman: Rivals 131, Scout NR, 247 128, ESPN NR, Hoop Scoop NR, Future 150 NR, Hoopniks NR, RSCI (overall composite) 136

Henriquez: Rivals NR, Scout NR, 247 124, ESPN NR, Hoop Scoop 98, Future 150 NR, Hoopniks NR, RSCI (overall composite) 142

Bess: Rivals 119, Scout NR, 247 181, ESPN NR, Hoop Scoop NR, Future 150 NR, Hoopniks NR, RSCI (overall composite) 168

What conclusions do I draw from this?

• Ratings are more useful for tiering players than actually seeing who's better than who. Within a certain range, there's not a ton of meaning between individual rankings. They also have a lot to do with potential instead of who's better at that moment in time (e.g. right now Karrington Davis is in the Rivals 150 for 2018, but Jericole Hellems and Fred Thatch - both more productive players - aren't).
• Henriquez, Foreman, and Bess are all peers in the fringe-top 150 range. Their ratings show up anywhere from barely within the top 100 to as high as 181. There's obviously not a really granular method behind these at this point in time. Each service is highly subjective, and may be based on a report from one guy on very few (sometimes just one) occasions.
• Guys in this range are there for a number of reasons. They're no doubt D-I players but they're not no-doubters at the highest level of D-I. They might have a fairly complete skill set but lack an attribute of top-level players (French, for example, could be top-50 if he were 2 inches taller). They might be really raw but have enough intrigue to draw some solid offers. They might have one elite skill and need work in other facets. They might project as a fringe player without a natural position.
• Neither the rankings alone nor their previous school performance is a good way to judge a transfer. They're just pieces in a larger profile. Guys are usually transferring because of an issue with fit - whether a coaching change, a player who thinks he should be at a larger program, a player stuck on the bench at a larger program, whatever - so their previous performance isn't always an indication of expected performance in the upcoming season.
• There's also the factor with transfers of having a year of just practice. They often address an individual skill or particular set of skills that needs work. They're also adjusting to a new role on a new team, so the new coach might not have the same plan for a given player.

In short, don't sweat the rankings too much. Players go up and down all the time without a major reason, just the opinion of a scout or a small staff of writers.

[Glorydays2013]

48 minutes ago, Pistol said:

http://www.draftexpress.com/RSCI/2014/

If you want a snapshot of where our recruits landed in the final 2014 HS rankings, the above link is a good leaping-off point.

Foreman: Rivals 131, Scout NR, 247 128, ESPN NR, Hoop Scoop NR, Future 150 NR, Hoopniks NR, RSCI (overall composite) 136

Henriquez: Rivals NR, Scout NR, 247 124, ESPN NR, Hoop Scoop 98, Future 150 NR, Hoopniks NR, RSCI (overall composite) 142

Bess: Rivals 119, Scout NR, 247 181, ESPN NR, Hoop Scoop NR, Future 150 NR, Hoopniks NR, RSCI (overall composite) 168

What conclusions do I draw from this?

• Ratings are more useful for tiering players than actually seeing who's better than who. Within a certain range, there's not a ton of meaning between individual rankings. They also have a lot to do with potential instead of who's better at that moment in time (e.g. right now Karrington Davis is in the Rivals 150 for 2018, but Jericole Hellems and Fred Thatch - both more productive players - aren't).
• Henriquez, Foreman, and Bess are all peers in the fringe-top 150 range. Their ratings show up anywhere from barely within the top 100 to as high as 181. There's obviously not a really granular method behind these at this point in time. Each service is highly subjective, and may be based on a report from one guy on very few (sometimes just one) occasions.
• Guys in this range are there for a number of reasons. They're no doubt D-I players but they're not no-doubters at the highest level of D-I. They might have a fairly complete skill set but lack an attribute of top-level players (French, for example, could be top-50 if he were 2 inches taller). They might be really raw but have enough intrigue to draw some solid offers. They might have one elite skill and need work in other facets. They might project as a fringe player without a natural position.
• Neither the rankings alone nor their previous school performance is a good way to judge a transfer. They're just pieces in a larger profile. Guys are usually transferring because of an issue with fit - whether a coaching change, a player who thinks he should be at a larger program, a player stuck on the bench at a larger program, whatever - so their previous performance isn't always an indication of expected performance in the upcoming season.
• There's also the factor with transfers of having a year of just practice. They often address an individual skill or particular set of skills that needs work. They're also adjusting to a new role on a new team, so the new coach might not have the same plan for a given player.

In short, don't sweat the rankings too much. Players go up and down all the time without a major reason, just the opinion of a scout or a small staff of writers.

Yes absolutely. I read an article on food rankings on places like yelp, where generally the top 10 or 15 restaurants are standouts, but it doesn't necessarily make the next 100 best lesser or better than others. We are also not fooling ourselves if we aren't excited about landing players in the top 100 either like Goodwin, lets be honest, it gives us a lot more hope when we see that number next to him. I am hoping players don't drop in ranking if they choose SLU like what happened to Adonys when he chose UCF 

[Cowboy]

54 minutes ago, Pistol said:

http://www.draftexpress.com/RSCI/2014/

If you want a snapshot of where our recruits landed in the final 2014 HS rankings, the above link is a good leaping-off point.

Foreman: Rivals 131, Scout NR, 247 128, ESPN NR, Hoop Scoop NR, Future 150 NR, Hoopniks NR, RSCI (overall composite) 136

Henriquez: Rivals NR, Scout NR, 247 124, ESPN NR, Hoop Scoop 98, Future 150 NR, Hoopniks NR, RSCI (overall composite) 142

Bess: Rivals 119, Scout NR, 247 181, ESPN NR, Hoop Scoop NR, Future 150 NR, Hoopniks NR, RSCI (overall composite) 168

What conclusions do I draw from this?

• Ratings are more useful for tiering players than actually seeing who's better than who. Within a certain range, there's not a ton of meaning between individual rankings. They also have a lot to do with potential instead of who's better at that moment in time (e.g. right now Karrington Davis is in the Rivals 150 for 2018, but Jericole Hellems and Fred Thatch - both more productive players - aren't).
• Henriquez, Foreman, and Bess are all peers in the fringe-top 150 range. Their ratings show up anywhere from barely within the top 100 to as high as 181. There's obviously not a really granular method behind these at this point in time. Each service is highly subjective, and may be based on a report from one guy on very few (sometimes just one) occasions.
• Guys in this range are there for a number of reasons. They're no doubt D-I players but they're not no-doubters at the highest level of D-I. They might have a fairly complete skill set but lack an attribute of top-level players (French, for example, could be top-50 if he were 2 inches taller). They might be really raw but have enough intrigue to draw some solid offers. They might have one elite skill and need work in other facets. They might project as a fringe player without a natural position.
• Neither the rankings alone nor their previous school performance is a good way to judge a transfer. They're just pieces in a larger profile. Guys are usually transferring because of an issue with fit - whether a coaching change, a player who thinks he should be at a larger program, a player stuck on the bench at a larger program, whatever - so their previous performance isn't always an indication of expected performance in the upcoming season.
• There's also the factor with transfers of having a year of just practice. They often address an individual skill or particular set of skills that needs work. They're also adjusting to a new role on a new team, so the new coach might not have the same plan for a given player.

In short, don't sweat the rankings too much. Players go up and down all the time without a major reason, just the opinion of a scout or a small staff of writers.

-this post should be pinned somewhere to direct folks to when talking recruiting rankings, well done

 

[bauman]

The one transfer I would like more info on (maybe from someone at the open practice) is Bess.  His size seems to make him a tweener and I have not heard that he excels at ball handling, rebounding or shooting.  I know I am missing something regarding him, but what? Is there a recent Billiken that he can be compared to skill wise?

Unrelated to my question, it seems like he was the transfer most excited by the win against GM. He was really pumped towards the end of the game and at the conclusion. 

[HenryB]

2 minutes ago, bauman said:

The one transfer I would like more info on (maybe from someone at the open practice) is Bess.  His size seems to make him a tweener and I have not heard that he excels at ball handling, rebounding or shooting.  I know I am missing something regarding him, but what? Is there a recent Billiken that he can be compared to skill wise?

Unrelated to my question, it seems like he was the transfer most excited by the win against GM. He was really pumped towards the end of the game and at the conclusion. 

Check out Frank C's podcast today.  Coach Ford was on and shared info about all the transfers.  He had lots of positives about Bess.

http://insidestl.com/radio-shows/the-press-box