Coach's Show

[slu06]

I want to check my math real quick... 

Graves is a "sure thing" and sitting out the beginning of the season due to transfer rules + Goodwin - who is coming off labrum surgery - will be healthy (I'm hopeful, but doubtful he'll be ready for the start of the season) and was "promised PG" = Bishop has no spot on this team and will transfer.

I think Bishop will be just fine at PG (at least as a backup) once we can spread the floor and have more than 1 offensive threat. Also, FWIW, dude sat out this year - why in the world would he want to transfer and sit out another successive year? Talk about self-imposed purgatory for a college basketball player.

 

[SLURadioBoy]

Thanks for the insight, DoctorB. It's always appreciated.

[Cowboy]

24 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

The staff likes Bishop a lot and JB will definitely be back.  So returnees of significance right now, I believe, are JB, DR, JJ, and EW: all will be getting minutes and I'd guess DR will start, at least initially. 

That's 4 (or 5; ZM would be 5) + 4 transfers + 2 freshmen (or 3 or ??) = 11 or 12.  I can tell you that there will be another new face, possibly a freshman, or maybe another transfer who can play right away...  All that still leaves one more scholly, if my math is right, even with ZM.

-you didn't mention two current players, including these two the schollies for next season are taken like this: 1-DR, 2-AG, 3-DjF, 4-JBish, 5-AH, 6-JBess, 7-MN, 8-JJ, 9-ZM, 10-EW, 11-TG, 12-JG, 13-HF  I guess we can conclude what you are indicating will happen to open a spot or two

 

[billiken_roy]

36 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

The staff likes Bishop a lot and JB will definitely be back.  So returnees of significance right now, I believe, are JB, DR, JJ, and EW: all will be getting minutes and I'd guess DR will start, at least initially. 

That's 4 (or 5; ZM would be 5) + 4 transfers + 2 freshmen (or 3 or ??) = 11 or 12.  I can tell you that there will be another new face, possibly a freshman, or maybe another transfer who can play right away...  All that still leaves one more scholly, if my math is right, even with ZM.

who do you think Roby would start over?   Henriquez and Goodwin are for sure starters.   personally, I cant see roby playing ahead of bess.  

[ACE]

Travis Ford‏@CoachTFord5

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[Old guy]

We have two transfers (Goodwin and Foreman) who are still recovering from surgery and one transfer (Graves) that will not start playing until the 2nd semester. Until we see Goodwin and Foreman are fully recovered from their surgery and fully capable to practice and play, we just cannot count on either to start playing from the very start of the season. Therefore there may be ample opportunity for Roby and Bishop to play, at least in the first half of next season. Besides, as the tweet above shows, Ford does like Bishop and is hoping to have him next season. If Ford initiates any transfers out of the program at the end of this season they will most likely not involve either Roby or Bishop. 

[TheChosenOne]

Out of curiosity, as a fan do you want Bishop to stick around?

Also, why would he be allowed to get this entire season back? Answered by kshoe.

[kshoe]

36 minutes ago, Old guy said:

We have two transfers (Goodwin and Foreman) who are still recovering from surgery and one transfer (Graves) that will not start playing until the 2nd semester. Until we see Goodwin and Foreman are fully recovered from their surgery and fully capable to practice and play, we just cannot count on either to start playing from the very start of the season. Therefore there may be ample opportunity for Roby and Bishop to play, at least in the first half of next season. Besides, as the tweet above shows, Ford does like Bishop and is hoping to have him next season. If Ford initiates any transfers out of the program at the end of this season they will most likely not involve either Roby or Bishop. 

Just a note, but Graves will be eligible to play at the end of the first semester, which is typically mid-December. Based on typical scheduling that means he'll miss 10 or 11 games out of 30. I'm told he has shown very well and will be a valued member of next year's team.

So the extent its possible, I wouldn't be surprised to see SLU try to back-load the schedule either with tougher games post mid-December or with a Christmas tourney instead of the usual Thanksgiving one. Scheduling is always tough, so it may not be possible, but it's at least a consideration.

[kshoe]

Just now, TheChosenOne said:

Out of curiosity, as a fan do you want Bishop to stick around?

Also, why would he be allowed to get this entire season back?

Because the rules allow for you to petition of an injury redshirt if you play less than a 1/3 of the season. 

[TheChosenOne]

Just now, kshoe said:

Because the rules allow for you to petition of an injury redshirt if you play less than a 1/3 of the season. 

Thanks.

[Aquinas]

Stepping back and looking at the players without assuming there Goodwin as been "promised" the point guard spot from day one.
Bishop is probably the best point guard on day one.  Graves is in the running when he is able to play. Hines if he sticks around will probably get some minutes until Graves is activated. 
Adonys is probably the best 2 and the team needs his outside shooting. If what I read is accurate, he prefers to play away from the basket.
Goodwin will probably be the best 3 out of the gate. I can see Goodwin playing other guard spots as he gains in his knowledge of the system and the skills to play them. 
Roby can play all 3 guard spots and will get significant minutes, even if everyone is healthy.  Zeek will be a backup.

Bess is an interesting player.  He has the height of a wing but has been a poor shooter from the FT line and 3 point range.  If Foreman is not ready to go full speed, Bess could see a lot of time at the 4 spot.  He is a little short for that spot but plays taller.  If we play at least one of the stretch 4-5s, then he could have lanes to the basket as a wing.  If Foreman, French and Bess are all three on the floor, the defense can pack it in on the half court and make it tough to get a good shot. 
Power Forward = French is the traditional athletic inside player, Johnson can stretch the floor.
5 - Foreman ideally a 4 though he can play the 5 as an athletic inside player and will get the lions share of the minutes.  Welmer like Johnson can stretch the floor.  

Gillman and Neufeld are not playing much now and that is not likely to change next year.  I think most on this board are expecting Neufeld to transfer. 

[3star_recruit]

2 hours ago, DoctorB said:

The staff likes Bishop a lot and JB will definitely be back.  So returnees of significance right now, I believe, are JB, DR, JJ, and EW: all will be getting minutes and I'd guess DR will start, at least initially. 

That's 4 (or 5; ZM would be 5) + 4 transfers + 2 freshmen (or 3 or ??) = 11 or 12.  I can tell you that there will be another new face, possibly a freshman, or maybe another transfer who can play right away...  All that still leaves one more scholly, if my math is right, even with ZM.

Doc, we'll need at least one scholarship for a point guard in the 2018 class. The staff is seriously evaluating at least a half dozen candidates on the east coast. Would be shocked to us see us burn a scholly on a 2017 player who isn't going to make the rotation.

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, Aquinas said:

Stepping back and looking at the players without assuming there Goodwin as been "promised" the point guard spot from day one.
Bishop is probably the best point guard on day one.  Graves is in the running when he is able to play. Hines if he sticks around will probably get some minutes until Graves is activated. 
Adonys is probably the best 2 and the team needs his outside shooting. If what I read is accurate, he prefers to play away from the basket.
Goodwin will probably be the best 3 out of the gate. I can see Goodwin playing other guard spots as he gains in his knowledge of the system and the skills to play them. 
Roby can play all 3 guard spots and will get significant minutes, even if everyone is healthy.  Zeek will be a backup.

Bess is an interesting player.  He has the height of a wing but has been a poor shooter from the FT line and 3 point range.  If Foreman is not ready to go full speed, Bess could see a lot of time at the 4 spot.  He is a little short for that spot but plays taller.  If we play at least one of the stretch 4-5s, then he could have lanes to the basket as a wing.  If Foreman, French and Bess are all three on the floor, the defense can pack it in on the half court and make it tough to get a good shot. 
Power Forward = French is the traditional athletic inside player, Johnson can stretch the floor.
5 - Foreman ideally a 4 though he can play the 5 as an athletic inside player and will get the lions share of the minutes.  Welmer like Johnson can stretch the floor.  

Gillman and Neufeld are not playing much now and that is not likely to change next year.  I think most on this board are expecting Neufeld to transfer. 

Wow, hard to disagree with anything you have posted. 

Truth #1.  Ford has not promised anyone a starting position next year.  To do so would be suicidal.  What he has likely promised is the opportunity to compete.  He has promised that he will coach the players up to his best potential, and if they earn the spot, they will get significant minutes.  

Consider that Roby has a better shooting percentage than Adonys.  Last year at UCF, he was 39% from the field and 35% from the three.  This year Roby is 41% and 40%.  The numbers show you are right that Adonys gets most of his points from jump shots, not from drives. Of his 219 FG attempts, 137 were from the 3.  That is 63% of his shots were from behind the arc. A key to Adonys' minutes will be how well he defends. 

Bess does not have the skill set to be a guard.  He will be have a strong interior presence, as you say, likely as a what is normally considered the 4 spot. And yes, it would seem that Bess + Foreman + French on the floor at the same time could lead into a packed defense.

Ford has gone on record as saying he likes to give 8 players 'significant minutes'.  He then likes #9 and #10 to be able to "hold the fort". This board will have a six month long thread of who is going to get those minutes, but Coach Ford will have the final say.  I trust that next season's issues are far, far off his current radar.

[Old guy]

50 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Out of curiosity, as a fan do you want Bishop to stick around?

I think Bishop is OK but not great, as far as what we have seen from him so far. However, if Bishop decides to leave and if Goodwin is not capable to start playing at the beginning of the session do you want to have Hines as a PG again until Goodwin or Graves can start playing next season? This may sound a bit far fetched, but who is to say what will come to pass. Do we want to keep our bases covered just in case or not?

[TheChosenOne]

10 minutes ago, Old guy said:

I think Bishop is OK but not great, as far as what we have seen from him so far. However, if Bishop decides to leave and if Goodwin is not capable to start playing at the beginning of the session do you want to have Hines as a PG again until Goodwin or Graves can start playing next season? This may sound a bit far fetched, but who is to say what will come to pass. Do we want to keep our bases covered just in case or not?

Early in the season it seemed like Bishop was one of the more heavily criticized players by this board, so that was why I was asking the question. What you and others have laid out certainly makes sense as to why the coaches would like to see him stay. Ultimately it is his decision, so it will be interesting to see how it plays out....

[HoosierPal]

46 minutes ago, kshoe said:

Just a note, but Graves will be eligible to play at the end of the first semester, which is typically mid-December. Based on typical scheduling that means he'll miss 10 or 11 games out of 30. I'm told he has shown very well and will be a valued member of next year's team.

So the extent its possible, I wouldn't be surprised to see SLU try to back-load the schedule either with tougher games post mid-December or with a Christmas tourney instead of the usual Thanksgiving one. Scheduling is always tough, so it may not be possible, but it's at least a consideration.

As you suggest, scheduling to load games into a 3 to 4 week window would be very hard to do.  On his show a week or two ago, Coach talked about how difficult scheduling has become. He said they are actively working on next season's schedule now.  One issue that caught Coach by surprise was the number of extra events at Chaifetz, which takes out potential game dates.  He said another issue for next season is that SLU's RPI for 2016-17 is looked on by potential opponents as a negative. OOC RPI is monitored closely these days.   And you are putting a lot of weight on a player who has played two good games in college, one against Nichols State (15 pts, 3 assists) and Dartmouth (13 & 4).  Yes, he will be a valued member of next year's team, but I can't see SLU basketball scheduling around a transfer's availability.

[Glorydays2013]

It seems to me that we have an over saturation of PG coming in. Graves will be a very valuable member of our team but the recruitment of him doesn't make sense to me personally if Ford wasn't expecting some guards to not be here next year. Matt N might be the guy who leaves who gives us a grad transfer big along with potentially AG who could give us another scholarship for 2018. Again I hate to say it but where will Zeke fit in next year, and the year after? Hines the walk on might be here next year and will probably get more minutes than Zeke if he stays. Roby will contribute a lot in the beginning next year with his experience and if Bishop is healthy he could be a great PG until Graves arrives, but with Bess and Adonys in the mix it complicates things. Also we have to AH and JB's now so that is getting kind of confusing. 

Also with the critique on Bess, I personally think it is important to note that he was on the final 4 team his freshmen year. He will be a starter. 

[brianstl]

On 2/7/2017 at 1:52 PM, billiken_roy said:

 

[brianstl]

On 2/7/2017 at 1:52 PM, billiken_roy said:

 

[Taj79]

I will offer the point that Bishop is not a true point guard ... he's a two-guard in a smallish body.  I think it was 13 who said Bishop is a better player but Hines does more for the team in terms of flow.  There are a number of intricacies with being the point that I don't think Bishop has, regardless of the talent around him.  May he prove me wrong.

Having said that, him as the second line 2 behind Adonys will work for me.  Along with some limited time at the point.  I believe Bishop will be a junior next year no matter what.  He then can play his senior year but I think then and only then, when his eligibility is exhausted, can he petition to get a fifth year back due to injury.  I think that rule is pretty tough to make.  Bishop could have redshirted last year, did this to his leg this year, playing as a sophomore, and then go two more before a petition for a sixth -- I believe that how it works. 

[brianstl]

On 2/7/2017 at 1:52 PM, billiken_roy said:

 

I am just trying to figure out where all these minutes are going to come for JJ, DR, JB and EW to be significant returnees. There are still only 200 minutes available in a game and these are guys that are currently playing on the 291st best team in the country according to Pomeroy.  Either we aren't going to be much improved next season or at least two out of those four will be riding the bench for the most part.

If you think Roby will be a starter at the beginning of next season then you have to at least think he will average about 20 minutes a game when Graves becomes eligible.  Roby can play the 1-3 spot.  Between the 1-3 spot you have 120 minutes available.  I figure Adonys will probably lead the team in minutes lets say at 30 a game.  Then lets say Goodwin gets 25.  Graves gets 22.   Bess gives you 20 minutes at the 3 and doesn't get any time as a two.  You got Roby at 20.  That comes up to 117 minutes.  That leaves 3 minutes a game for Bishop. That is with me probably underestimating the average minutes Adonys and Goodwin will get.  Plus, I am making an assumption that Johnson sees no time at the 3 next season.

Now go divide up the 80 minutes a game at the 4 and 5 spot between Foreman, French, Johnson and Welmer.  Foreman averaged 27 mpg last season at Rutgers.  Let's use that number for both him and French.  That gives you 54 minutes.  You have 26 minutes left to divide up between Johnson and Welmer.  I will go with Johnson getting 16 and Welmer 10.  That minute breakdown is assuming that Ford doesn't find someone with immediately eligibility that would fit the description of a competent D1 center.  I tend to think he will and if that happens there will be less minutes available for the returnees.

[3star_recruit]

We have 13 scholarships. If we fill all 13, every year we're going to see 3 guys who ride the pine. That's a feature, not a bug. 

I'm a Zeke Moore fan. If he can't beat out the guards who are coming in, he will be one of the 3 players who sits. That's the way it's supposed to be.

Graves is an athletic freak and Coach Ford is serious about upgrading the athleticism of our roster. But If Bishop puts up stellar numbers in Graves' absence, then it will be hard for the latter to get on the floor when he becomes eligible. Again, that's the way it's supposed to be. That's the nature of competition. Either way the team wins.

Ford redshirted high upside players when he was at Okie State. Don't be surprised if he uses a redshirt on a 2018 or 2019 player.

[kmbilliken]

5 hours ago, DoctorB said:

The staff likes Bishop a lot and JB will definitely be back.  So returnees of significance right now, I believe, are JB, DR, JJ, and EW: all will be getting minutes and I'd guess DR will start, at least initially. 

That's 4 (or 5; ZM would be 5) + 4 transfers + 2 freshmen (or 3 or ??) = 11 or 12.  I can tell you that there will be another new face, possibly a freshman, or maybe another transfer who can play right away...  All that still leaves one more scholly, if my math is right, even with ZM.

Gillmann to graduate? Neufeld to transfer?

[TheA_Bomb]

I'm not concerned about who gets what minutes.  I think next year 2nd half of the season will be fine.

I will say that I haven't been able to watch much but I am heartened by Coach Ford getting these guys to play better late in Conference.  Yes the competition was bad but so were we and I think they played alright.  So maybe he can coach a bit.  I hope so and I'm ready for next season.

[majerus mojo]

Maybe Ford is such a big Bishop fan he didn't want to waste a year of his eligibility on this season's dumpster fire... ha