2017-2018 Season, A New Hope

[HoosierBilliken]

24 minutes ago, Soderball said:

2. Welmer may get 10 minutes a game. Will not start.

3. Bishop is gone, Roby is useless, Johnson may play 5-8 minutes a game(warm body without the Crews incompetence), Moore will be highly dependent on if his shot becomes consistent. The latest outing looked like a "go home, kid"

4. You have to be kidding. Both gone. Occupy sacred ground with Brett Jolly in being the worst recruits this program has ever had.

Sounds really good, especially if it means Ford will be able to fill spots with his future recruits.  Thanks for the feedback.  It gives me more hope.     

[HoosierPal]

33 minutes ago, Soderball said:

What do you think Graves does?

Graves is a combo guard.  His senior HS stats plus his slim college resume indicate he is not a prolific passer.  At BC, 1.6 assists per game, 1.6 TO per game.  His HS senior stats, 2.2 assists per game, 1.9 TO per game.  Decent 3 point shooter, 36% at BC and 38% in HS.  I see him as a solid guard off the bench next year.

[HoosierPal]

41 minutes ago, Soderball said:

2. Welmer may get 10 minutes a game. Will not start.

3. Bishop is gone, Roby is useless, Johnson may play 5-8 minutes a game(warm body without the Crews incompetence), Moore will be highly dependent on if his shot becomes consistent. The latest outing looked like a "go home, kid"

 

2.  Did Coach tell you this in a private meeting?  Did you two tell Elliott he won't be starting next year?

3.  Where did Jermaine tell you he was going to transfer?  Or did Ford tell you this in the same conversation where he said Welmer wouldn't be starting. 

You seem to know quite a bit more than most of us. Who is your source?

[NH]

I respect and understand the speculation for next year.  I had a couple thoughts that differ slightly from what some of the general consensus seems to be:

• I think people are writing off Bishop a little too quickly. We have ZERO guard depth this year with Bishop being by far our best guard offensively. I think it's a little bold to immediately assume Graves will be better than him. And regardless, we need all the ballhandlers we can get. Bishop is maybe our only player who has shown he can consistently play at an A-10 level and I think he could be important to our team, even if only in a supporting role as a good shooter and ball-handler. 
• TF has made it clear that Roby is the vocal leader. I think he too could have an important role as secondary ball-handler and primary defender.

Overall, it's hard to accurately predict how these guys would look on a better team because the current team is so bad. Some players excel in complementary roles which we wouldn't be able to see now with the way the roster is currently constructed.

[billiken_roy]

2 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

We agree.  As I said in my first post, we don't have a true PG on next year's roster.  We don't have a PG and we don't have a true rim enforcer.  Right now, those two jobs default to Bishop and Welmer, based on past + current stats.  There are holes in next year's roster. Rebounds will continue to be a challenge.  Foreman hopefully can replace Agbeko's boards.  French, can he replace or hopefully improve on Crawford's rebounding?  His strength is reported to be defensive rebounding, but time will only tell.  How many rebounds can we pencil in for Goodwin?  Bess is not a rebounding F/G, nor a scorer, nor a passer based on his MSU stats. 

You are calling Welmer the "rim enforcer" ahead of what skills foreman and French will bring?   You believe bishop will be the point guard ahead of Goodwin and after Christmas graves?  You must be either crews or platt or a relative.

[Soderball]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

2.  Did Coach tell you this in a private meeting?  Did you two tell Elliott he won't be starting next year?

3.  Where did Jermaine tell you he was going to transfer?  Or did Ford tell you this in the same conversation where he said Welmer wouldn't be starting. 

You seem to know quite a bit more than most of us. Who is your source?

Welmer wont start because he is not good enough. he has an unusual playstyle/body type combo that makes him a potential matchup issue and could be useful to bring in for a portion of the game. 10 minutes is a quarter of the game. i use it as a point that he will be a piece of the puzzle, but i dont see him becoming a core component.

he has played only one semester now.. obviously he has plenty of time to develop, and he has shown some ability to move and control his body(has gotten some nice blocks and is more agile than the lethargic Crews stiffs.)

 

Jermaine is a sophomore who is being recruited over 2 or 3 times with more to come.. he is injured and likely to be out for even more of the season.. the past two seasons he is lucky to get 10 wins..

I wouldn't stay, and if he gives a damn about basketball he would be crazy to stay. he can play. plenty of schools and programs can use him. Unlike some guys on this roster, Bishop has options.

Transferring is a fact of life now. we have FOUR transfers incoming, why wouldnt we have any outgoing?

 

40 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

You are calling Welmer the "rim enforcer" ahead of what skills foreman and French will bring?   You believe bishop will be the point guard ahead of Goodwin and after Christmas graves?  You must be either crews or platt or a relative.

hoosierpal has always carried the torch for the failed crewsplatt regime.

[Soderball]

1 hour ago, NH said:

I respect and understand the speculation for next year.  I had a couple thoughts that differ slightly from what some of the general consensus seems to be:

• I think people are writing off Bishop a little too quickly. We have ZERO guard depth this year with Bishop being by far our best guard offensively. I think it's a little bold to immediately assume Graves will be better than him. And regardless, we need all the ballhandlers we can get. Bishop is maybe our only player who has shown he can consistently play at an A-10 level and I think he could be important to our team, even if only in a supporting role as a good shooter and ball-handler. 
• TF has made it clear that Roby is the vocal leader. I think he too could have an important role as secondary ball-handler and primary defender.

Overall, it's hard to accurately predict how these guys would look on a better team because the current team is so bad. Some players excel in complementary roles which we wouldn't be able to see now with the way the roster is currently constructed.

if Graves is not better than Bishop, the Billikens will be in trouble.

Roby is inconsistent at best and sucks at worst. Leaders have to be able to lead by example. Nonsense.

Ford speaks in the most eloquent coachspeak, he is not and never will be Rickma. Ford is who he is and damned good at what he does.

 

I think Bishop leaves specifically BECAUSE he can play somewhere else. A lot of this Crews roster needs to be run off, because they cannot get another D1 scholarship.

 

This is a team that is estimated to win 0 a10 games. purge, purge, purge.

[Soderball]

2 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

We agree.  As I said in my first post, we don't have a true PG on next year's roster.  We don't have a PG and we don't have a true rim enforcer.  Right now, those two jobs default to Bishop and Welmer, based on past + current stats.  There are holes in next year's roster. Rebounds will continue to be a challenge.  Foreman hopefully can replace Agbeko's boards.  French, can he replace or hopefully improve on Crawford's rebounding?  His strength is reported to be defensive rebounding, but time will only tell.  How many rebounds can we pencil in for Goodwin?  Bess is not a rebounding F/G, nor a scorer, nor a passer based on his MSU stats. 

this post is absolute madness.. hopefully foreman can replace agbeko's rebounding? can french outrebound 2016-17 Crawford? What are you on? the talent level between these comparisons.... Welmer is a rim enforcer? not a rebounder or scorer based on his Tom Izzo-coached Sparty tenure stats?

your tone suggests we need to rehire Crews right now! look at the capable team composition he assembled!

 

its official folks, watching these billikens makes you crazy. ill use my constant posting of long diatribes about how bad Crews and the Crews recruits are as further proof. I need a lot of whiskey.

 

seriously. read the post quoted. that is madness.

[GOSLU68]

Welmer will be a factor every year until he graduates. As a freshman he is almost as good as Rob Loe before Loe's senior year where he finally decided to play physical. One stipulation that he continues to add muscle- at least 10-12 pounds per year. On the other hand I see Bishop as too small, too slow, too  out of control much like Austin McBroom- would be better as shooting guard in the Horizon or similar league. It would take very great skills for him to excell in A-10. Bishop only looks skilled now because we compare him to the steady A. Hines who we are thankful for as a walk on. How could we have no point guards other than Hines?

[WVBilliken]

2 minutes ago, GOSLU68 said:

Welmer will be a factor every year until he graduates. As a freshman he is almost as good as Rob Loe before Loe's senior year where he finally decided to play physical. One stipulation that he continues to add muscle- at least 10-12 pounds per year. 

Heck, he ought to be.  With a year in prep school and a redshirt year.........he should be a junior.

[HoosierBilliken]

3 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

You seem to know quite a bit more than most of us. Who is your source?

 

1 hour ago, Soderball said:

hoosierpal has always carried the torch for the failed crewsplatt regime.

Easy boys.  I tend to favor Soderball's aggressive realist stance, however I can see this year as an opportunity for Johnson, Moore, Welmer, and Roby to learn so that they will be contributors off the bench next year.  There will be less pressure on them, less time teams study on how to defend them, and they will have better teammates to practice with.  If I'm wrong and they transfer, then its a win also.  We will get better players in return, if recent history is any example. 

I don't know about HoosierPal, but there was no bigger Crews apologist than myself, you know, until things just got so bad that I couldn't show my face.  It's  preferable to not mention the name any longer.  Could we just refer to that person as the "coach previous to Ford?"  I get squeamish every time I read his name or type it or every time people rip on him.  He was a good person.  It would be a lot easier if we de-personalize this. 

All the best   

 

 

[NH]

2 hours ago, Soderball said:

if Graves is not better than Bishop, the Billikens will be in trouble.

Roby is inconsistent at best and sucks at worst. Leaders have to be able to lead by example. Nonsense.

Ford speaks in the most eloquent coachspeak, he is not and never will be Rickma. Ford is who he is and damned good at what he does.

 

I think Bishop leaves specifically BECAUSE he can play somewhere else. A lot of this Crews roster needs to be run off, because they cannot get another D1 scholarship.

 

This is a team that is estimated to win 0 a10 games. purge, purge, purge.

Roby is a physical defender and role player being asked to do things offensively that are above his skill-set. All I am saying is that he could look a lot better in a role more suited for his talents. He's a streaky shooter who turns the ball over too often, but as a player who is asked to shoot less and handle the ball less, those vulnerabilities wouldn't be exposed. I also have a lot of respect for the fact that he stayed and is dedicated to the SLU program. I get your point about leading by example, but still feel that Roby could be a useful voice in the locker room and physical defender on the court.

Same logic goes for Bishop. He's shooting 37% from three and averaging 4.7 assists a game. His turnover numbers are horrendous but with better players on offense to take the pressure off him, I think he could serve an important role. However, I do agree with you that he may see an opportunity for more playing time elsewhere, I just feel like it would be beneficial for next year's squad if we had Bishop as added guard depth.

I agree that our talent level needs to be purged and that a talent overhaul is needed. I guess my point is that I am optimistic that some of the players on our team could serve value for the immediate future in depth/secondary roles, with Roby and Bishop being two who today most look like two that could help at the guard position. I think we agree on the overall point, but I'm holding out hope that there will be roles for those two next season. 

 

[JettFlight5]

1 hour ago, HoosierBilliken said:

 

Easy boys.  I tend to favor Soderball's aggressive realist stance, however I can see this year as an opportunity for Johnson, Moore, Welmer, and Roby to learn so that they will be contributors off the bench next year.  There will be less pressure on them, less time teams study on how to defend them, and they will have better teammates to practice with.  If I'm wrong and they transfer, then its a win also.  We will get better players in return, if recent history is any example. 

I don't know about HoosierPal, but there was no bigger Crews apologist than myself, you know, until things just got so bad that I couldn't show my face.  It's  preferable to not mention the name any longer.  Could we just refer to that person as the "coach previous to Ford?"  I get squeamish every time I read his name or type it or every time people rip on him.  He was a good person.  It would be a lot easier if we de-personalize this. 

All the best   

 

 

He Who Shall Not Be Named. 

[brianstl]

3 hours ago, WVBilliken said:

Heck, he ought to be.  With a year in prep school and a redshirt year.........he should be a junior.

 

1 hour ago, JettFlight5 said:

 

Plus, he started school a year late.  The guy turns 22 this season.  It isn't like he is new to basketball like the kids that come from Africa and are a few years older than everyone in their class.  He has played basketball all of his life.  There is probably a role for Welmer going forward, but we are probably close to seeing Welmer's ceiling as a player now.

[HoosierPal]

5 hours ago, Soderball said:

Welmer wont start because he is not good enough. he has an unusual playstyle/body type combo that makes him a potential matchup issue and could be useful to bring in for a portion of the game. 10 minutes is a quarter of the game. i use it as a point that he will be a piece of the puzzle, but i dont see him becoming a core component.

he has played only one semester now.. obviously he has plenty of time to develop, and he has shown some ability to move and control his body(has gotten some nice blocks and is more agile than the lethargic Crews stiffs.)

 

Jermaine is a sophomore who is being recruited over 2 or 3 times with more to come.. he is injured and likely to be out for even more of the season.. the past two seasons he is lucky to get 10 wins..

I wouldn't stay, and if he gives a damn about basketball he would be crazy to stay. he can play. plenty of schools and programs can use him. Unlike some guys on this roster, Bishop has options.

Transferring is a fact of life now. we have FOUR transfers incoming, why wouldnt we have any outgoing?

 

hoosierpal has always carried the torch for the failed crewsplatt regime.

So all of this is just your opinion.  That is fine.  This is a message board, so anything goes. 

I think we need to let Coach Ford set the lineup for next year.  And I hope he recruits over all of the players he has sitting on the bench in sweats this year.  Any coach worth a paycheck is always looking for better talent. 

Sure we will have more transfers out.  Every program does.  But I thought maybe you knew something no one else did, having spoken to Ford or Bishop, but guess not.

[HoosierPal]

6 hours ago, NH said:

I respect and understand the speculation for next year.  I had a couple thoughts that differ slightly from what some of the general consensus seems to be:

• I think people are writing off Bishop a little too quickly. We have ZERO guard depth this year with Bishop being by far our best guard offensively. I think it's a little bold to immediately assume Graves will be better than him. And regardless, we need all the ballhandlers we can get. Bishop is maybe our only player who has shown he can consistently play at an A-10 level and I think he could be important to our team, even if only in a supporting role as a good shooter and ball-handler. 
• TF has made it clear that Roby is the vocal leader. I think he too could have an important role as secondary ball-handler and primary defender.

Overall, it's hard to accurately predict how these guys would look on a better team because the current team is so bad. Some players excel in complementary roles which we wouldn't be able to see now with the way the roster is currently constructed.

You will be highly criticized for not throwing Bishop under the bus.  Soderball knows for a fact that Bishop will transfer at the end of this year. 

I for one, think your post is on point.  I also think Coach Ford will do what he thinks is best for the team, and perhaps not what this board of experts wants. 

[HoosierPal]

3 hours ago, HoosierBilliken said:

 

Easy boys.  I tend to favor Soderball's aggressive realist stance, however I can see this year as an opportunity for Johnson, Moore, Welmer, and Roby to learn so that they will be contributors off the bench next year.  There will be less pressure on them, less time teams study on how to defend them, and they will have better teammates to practice with.  If I'm wrong and they transfer, then its a win also.  We will get better players in return, if recent history is any example. 

I don't know about HoosierPal, but there was no bigger Crews apologist than myself, you know, until things just got so bad that I couldn't show my face.  It's  preferable to not mention the name any longer.  Could we just refer to that person as the "coach previous to Ford?"  I get squeamish every time I read his name or type it or every time people rip on him.  He was a good person.  It would be a lot easier if we de-personalize this. 

All the best   

 

 

It's a fricking message board.  None of this is important in the big picture of Billiken basketball.  It's just Billiken fans expressing meaningless opinions and blowing off some steam.   

[WVBilliken]

Think Bishop is a keeper.

[HoosierBilliken]

3 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

It's a fricking message board.  None of this is important in the big picture of Billiken basketball.  It's just Billiken fans expressing meaningless opinions and blowing off some steam.   

"It is not by speeches and majority resolutions that the great questions of the time are decided, but by iron and blood."  Otto Von Bismarck

Just saying...

[billslasttermdropout]

The question this time being college hoops and being that both teams shoot at essentially the same iron, minus some quantum differences between halves, and most serious basketball injuries involve little blood,  and coaches' speeches, soliloquies, and other musings greatly affect the course of play not to mention the psychological effect of extracurricular communication betwixt contestants, and furthermore that majority resolutions of boards of trustees help to broadly determine the general direction of all university functions and divisions including athletic programs, I solemnly declare Otto Van Bismarck hereby banished from any and all present and future conversations regarding said topic,  namely college hoops. 

Carry on...

[Old guy]

Otto Van Bismark was a Dutch nobody, there are no recorded quotes from him. Otto Von Bismark was a German with a taste for power and expansion. 

[Billiken Rich]

Wasn't it Otto Van Bismark who said "Winning isn't the only thing, it's everything"  Easy to get these guys mixed up.....

[SShoe]

I've said this on numerous occasions, but our success next year will be predicated on how good the 3 transfers really are.  If Bess, Foreman, and/or Henriequez don't live up to their billing, we aren't dancing or NITing.  I've been told that coach thinks AH is first-team all-conference material.  Good, because that, along with another all-conference player and a freshman of the year candidate, is what it will take to win 23+ games. 

I also think Welmer, Bishop, Roby, etc are being undervalued as potential bench and role players.  Don't forget, we won 18 straight with Jake Barnett as our 5th starter.  Was he really any better than Davell Roby? I also think Jermaine Bishop could be as good a role player as Austin McBroom(who was on some pretty awful teams himself). 

[Quality Is Job 1]

56 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:

Wasn't it Otto Van Bismark who said "Winning isn't the only thing, it's everything"  Easy to get these guys mixed up.....

I believe that should be, "Winning isn't everything; it's the only thing."

[MusicCityBilliken]

Going way back to Dr Miller's 'History of Modern Germany' class in the old Davis-Shaughnessy Hall (before renovations) it's Von Bismark and he was Prussian, not Dutch. I don't recall him saying that