The Bills over SIU-e by 2

[cheeseman]

2 hours ago, Soderball said:

an SIUE team that was missing the leading scorer, second-year head coach(no other d1 HC jobs) and that committed 2 technicals AND 2 flagrants.

 

the billikens are horrible, folks. Hines is a walk on and not nearly as good as Phil Hunt was.

i was pretty disturbed by Jon Harris' management of the team. the on court behavior of the guard from Oakland was totally unacceptable. Jolly-like.

What have you been up to Phil beside coaching.  Soderball - it is ok to be unhappy but your posts are crossing the line of  being unhinged.  Chill out

 

[HoosierPal]

2 hours ago, brianstl said:

I think Roby and Moore could really benefit from a legitimate point guard.  I missed the the game Saturday, but just looking at the box score makes it appear that Roby was the biggest beneficiary of Hines best game as a Billiken.

Well, what player wouldn't benefit from a pure, legitimate point guard?  We all know you don't like Welmer, but even poor little Elliott would benefit from getting the ball in a better position in the paint.

[brianstl]

15 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Well, what player wouldn't benefit from a pure, legitimate point guard?  We all know you don't like Welmer, but even poor little Elliott would benefit from getting the ball in a better position in the paint.

I don't dislike Welmer.  I think he has a role going forward.  I thought some people were getting ahead of themselves earlier in the season when they were acting like he was the second coming.

[SShoe]

20 hours ago, Westy03 said:

I just don't see it with Welmer bishop or Johnson. Moore at least can shoot it. 

Bishop is an undersized SG but doesn't have the quickness needed to be undersized and still gets abused on defense. Welmer is what a 21 year old freshman? He should be playing a lot better even against sub par competition. Johnson just looks completely lost out there on both ends of the court and not athletic, I can see some potential with him though. 

And Welmer can't?

I guess the way I see it is, how do these guys compare to role players we've had in the past?  Is a comparison between Jermaine Bishop and Austin McBroom a fair comparison?  AM had similar averages on some very bad teams, but was a decent contributor on a good team.  What about Roby vs. Cassity?  Kyle was one of the "best players" on that 2010-2011 team that won 12 games averaging around 10 ppg, but simply wasn't good enough to be the lead guy.   Yet, he was an important part of the team that lost to MSU in the NCAA tourney. Could Zeke Moore be a similar player to Jake Barnett (who we all trashed most of the time), a starter in his senior season?

I think there are roles for some these guys on next year's team and I think as the 5th through 9th options, they could be better than OK. It's a lot more difficult as a player when defenses key in on you, but when you have better players around you, they tend to make you better as well. Crawford is a good example of someone who makes for a nice 5th or 6th option, but shouldn't be your lead guy.

Honestly, while depth is important, next year's team will depend primarily on the 3 transfers.  While I think Goodwin and French are going to be studs and will have immediate impacts, they'll still just be freshman. We need at least 2 of the 3 transfers to be All-Conference material. That will determine our fate more than anybody currently playing.

[RUBillsFan]

1 hour ago, SShoe said:

And Welmer can't?

I guess the way I see it is, how do these guys compare to role players we've had in the past?  Is a comparison between Jermaine Bishop and Austin McBroom a fair comparison?  AM had similar averages on some very bad teams, but was a decent contributor on a good team.  What about Roby vs. Cassity?  Kyle was one of the "best players" on that 2010-2011 team that won 12 games averaging around 10 ppg, but simply wasn't good enough to be the lead guy.   Yet, he was an important part of the team that lost to MSU in the NCAA tourney. Could Zeke Moore be a similar player to Jake Barnett (who we all trashed most of the time), a starter in his senior season?

I think there are roles for some these guys on next year's team and I think as the 5th through 9th options, they could be better than OK. It's a lot more difficult as a player when defenses key in on you, but when you have better players around you, they tend to make you better as well. Crawford is a good example of someone who makes for a nice 5th or 6th option, but shouldn't be your lead guy.

Honestly, while depth is important, next year's team will depend primarily on the 3 transfers.  While I think Goodwin and French are going to be studs and will have immediate impacts, they'll still just be freshman. We need at least 2 of the 3 transfers to be All-Conference material. That will determine our fate more than anybody currently playing.

This.  Tanner freaking Lancona looked pretty decent as a freshman when he was surrounded by Loe, Evans, Jett, and McCall.  Being surrounded by good players can make you look a lot better, being surrounded by crap can make you look crappy.  The truth is somewhere in between.  If Bishop isn't expected to be a scorer, maybe his PG play improves or maybe Goodwin plays the point and Bishop can focus on scoring/defense.  Same with Roby.  Welmer seems like he can be a good stretch 4, but this team is asking too much of him.  Moore & Johnson have shown promise at times as freshmen even on this crappy team.  I'm not sure we're an NCAA team, but the improvement wil be incredible compared to where we are now.

[cheeseman]

5 hours ago, Soderball said:

an SIUE team that was missing the leading scorer, second-year head coach(no other d1 HC jobs) and that committed 2 technicals AND 2 flagrants.

 

the billikens are horrible, folks. Hines is a walk on and not nearly as good as Phil Hunt was.

i was pretty disturbed by Jon Harris' management of the team. the on court behavior of the guard from Oakland was totally unacceptable. Jolly-like.

This is another of the computer Gremlins screwing with me again - sorry Soderball.  

Shoe - I was thinking the same thing.  I would go even further and ask who were role players on RM's teams that were really any better - McCall as a freshman and sophomore was good but the others were nothing to write home about.  Welmer just tied Remekun for the most blocks in a game (6) for a Billiken - Remekun was nothing to jump up and down about - he was serviceable and that is all so isn't Welmer at least at his level?  What about Glaze - his injury issues probably slowed him down but was he really that good as a starter - no but he was fine as a back up.  Without going through the entire rosters my point simply is that role players are just that role players - they serve as back ups and you hope they can hold their own for the short time they are on the court.  Bishop, Johnson, Welmer, Moore all can fit this bill if not perhaps more.

 

[slufan13]

NIT next year. Just not a fan of the bench and think it's asking too much for two freshmen and three transfers to come together and lead us to the NCAA. Even our recent transfers haven't turned out all that great although I still have high hopes for all three of them next year. Dancing in 2018-19 with the potential to get to the second week.

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

 Welmer just tied Remekun for the most blocks in a game (6) for a Billiken - Remekun was nothing to jump up and down about - he was serviceable and that is all so isn't Welmer at least at his level? 

Just to clarify the record, also with 6 blocks in one game are the Big Chill and Al Matiim. Willie R never hit the magic 6, but bracketed 6 with 5 blocks (twice) and 7(once).   The overall record is 9 by Kelvin Henderson aganist Siena in 1979

[Quality Is Job 1]

Just now, HoosierPal said:

Just to clarify the record, also with 6 blocks in one game are the Big Chill and Al Matiim. Willie R never hit the magic 6, but bracketed 6 with 5 blocks (twice) and 7(once).   The overall record is 9 by Kelvin Henderson aganist Siena in 1979

I would love for the Bills to have another athletic center/forward like Willie Reed.

[cheeseman]

24 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Just to clarify the record, also with 6 blocks in one game are the Big Chill and Al Matiim. Willie R never hit the magic 6, but bracketed 6 with 5 blocks (twice) and 7(once).   The overall record is 9 by Kelvin Henderson aganist Siena in 1979

Thanks - I thought the 6 was a record from what I heard on the post game show.

[HoosierPal]

35 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Thanks - I thought the 6 was a record from what I heard on the post game show.

http://www.slubillikens.com/fls/27200/MBB/HistoryRecords.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=27200

Billiken Records

[hsmith19]

On 12/16/2016 at 3:58 PM, Soderball said:

Gillman has none of those things. This post is pure crazy. Kool-aid overdose. Majerus would make you hold his locker room towel for these comments.

 

Gillman has a pulse, Neufeld, in terms of game play, does not. The Billikens would be better off playing 4 men than playing Neufeld. I mean that without a shred of sarcasm. Gillman is at least better than playing 4 men.

Gillman and Neufeld both need to go this summer.

If one stays, Gillman will be a senior and is a st louis son.

Neufeld is at his soph year.. the prime transfer year.. Just go, kid.

Okay, i said Gillmann had three things: 1) decent hands under the basket, 2) decent passer for a big man, and 3) can shoot an occasional three.

1) Gillmann can actually catch a pass and make an occasional bunny without losing it out of bounds. He's over 50% on two pointers career, which isn't saying much, but more than you can say for Neufeld.
2) Believe it or not Gillmann has more assists than turnovers for his career. This isn't the best thing you can say about a big man, but it's rare for somebody who plays the 5 as much as he has. Even Loe couldn't say this. Neufeld averages 8 TOs for every assist (not a typo).
3) Gillmann is still over 30% on threes. Neufeld hasn't made a single one, and for the love of St. Ignatius he should never attempt another.

Also, you seem to have missed the first part of my post, which is neither one is a D1 center. Put another way (and I've said this before), I would take Gillmann on my Webster Gorloks squad. I wouldn't even want Neufeld there, and I hope we can do better than either at SLU next year. But if one has to play this year, it should be Gillmann.

[Soderball]

On 12/20/2016 at 2:26 PM, hsmith19 said:

Okay, i said Gillmann had three things: 1) decent hands under the basket, 2) decent passer for a big man, and 3) can shoot an occasional three.

1) Gillmann can actually catch a pass and make an occasional bunny without losing it out of bounds. He's over 50% on two pointers career, which isn't saying much, but more than you can say for Neufeld.
2) Believe it or not Gillmann has more assists than turnovers for his career. This isn't the best thing you can say about a big man, but it's rare for somebody who plays the 5 as much as he has. Even Loe couldn't say this. Neufeld averages 8 TOs for every assist (not a typo).
3) Gillmann is still over 30% on threes. Neufeld hasn't made a single one, and for the love of St. Ignatius he should never attempt another.

Also, you seem to have missed the first part of my post, which is neither one is a D1 center. Put another way (and I've said this before), I would take Gillmann on my Webster Gorloks squad. I wouldn't even want Neufeld there, and I hope we can do better than either at SLU next year. But if one has to play this year, it should be Gillmann.

thanks. great post.

 

watching this billiken team is maddening.

[Billiken Rich]

On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 1:03 PM, Quality Is Job 1 said:

I would love for the Bills to have another athletic center/forward like Willie Reed.

Ain't that the truth.  no more eurostyle thtee point shooting centers. Give me

Willie or Kenny brown or Chris Heinrich.

[Soderball]

20 hours ago, Billiken Rich said:

Ain't that the truth.  no more eurostyle thtee point shooting centers. Give me

Willie or Kenny brown or Chris Heinrich.

I'd take another Rob Loe right now.

 

Jalen and Welmer and Zeke are the only guys on the current eligible roster that i see real upside in.

Being a "eurostyle" three-point-shooting center doesn't mean that they are stiff and useless underneath the basket. Being able to be flexible and play on all points of the floor with huge length is the whole point. They have to be able to move.

 

Not sure who you're trying to knock in that post.

[Billiken Rich]

I'd take Rob Loe or Cody Ellis back in a heartbeat. Other than Jalen, if he's a forward, I don't think our current crop of bigs are as talented or mobile as Rob and Cody and I don't think they'll ever be physical enough to defend their position. 

[hsmith19]

11 hours ago, Soderball said:

Jalen and Welmer are the only guys on the current eligible roster that i see real upside in.

You don't see upside in Moore? Welmer will have to play next year by default, but Moore has the chance to be the kind of sniper off the bench that the Bills have never really had in my 20 or so years of following them. I know he still has the stink of Crews on him, but he's the one guy I can see really contributing to a good team.

[CoachK]

5 hours ago, hsmith19 said:

You don't see upside in Moore? Welmer will have to play next year by default, but Moore has the chance to be the kind of sniper off the bench that the Bills have never really had in my 20 or so years of following them. I know he still has the stink of Crews on him, but he's the one guy I can see really contributing to a good team.

Jalen in my opinion is an undersize PF. I do think he can play at the mid major level but Ford is going to recruit over him. Welmer is a 21 year old soft redshirt freshman who has to be completely open to get his shot off. I think I will take a 6ft 7 sniper in Zeke Moore that can play the PG and SG position to have the most upside. 

[Soderball]

7 hours ago, hsmith19 said:

You don't see upside in Moore? Welmer will have to play next year by default, but Moore has the chance to be the kind of sniper off the bench that the Bills have never really had in my 20 or so years of following them. I know he still has the stink of Crews on him, but he's the one guy I can see really contributing to a good team.

The Bills have never had good luck with 'sniper' jumpshooters. Our best shooters have been star players like Lisch and Mitchell and Highmark, etc. They've not only been able to shoot, they've been able to play ball. I saw 'snipers' in Ahearn. While useful, there are better players to land out there.

Zeke can be useful if the elite-level shooting manifests. I'm glad to see him getting more minutes.

 

1 hour ago, CoachK said:

Jalen in my opinion is an undersize PF. I do think he can play at the mid major level but Ford is going to recruit over him. Welmer is a 21 year old soft redshirt freshman who has to be completely open to get his shot off. I think I will take a 6ft 7 sniper in Zeke Moore that can play the PG and SG position to have the most upside. 

Rob was pretty soft when he started too. "Snipers" are a dime a dozen. 6 10 guys who can play inside and outside are rare. Ford will be recruiting over Moore before he recruits over Welmer, simply because the prevalence of their style of play shows up at a different rate amongst players.

Ford will probably recruit over Jalen, but Jalen will be very useful next year off the bench. There HAS to be some physicality that isn't starting, Jalen is the only option there. I would expect him to transfer after his Sophomore year.

[CoachK]

You made some really good points. I do believe that Ford will recruit over Zeke. I don't see him staying. I predicts he transfers to somewhere that fits his style of play. 

[billiken_roy]

while jalen, zeke, welmer and roby appear to be of some use, i believe most of you touting their exploits of this season, are mistaking the fact they are the best of a really bad group.   they will serve as our backups next year, but the truth is they will not even be close in ability to the five that will start and play the lion's share of the minutes next year.  next year's quality depth or lack thereof will be our achilles heel.    the sooner they all graduate and are replaced by a ford staff recruit the better.   pray that our transfers and incoming freshmen have the durability to average a quality 36 - 40 minutes per game.         

[hsmith19]

On 12/23/2016 at 8:07 PM, Soderball said:

The Bills have never had good luck with 'sniper' jumpshooters. Our best shooters have been star players like Lisch and Mitchell and Highmark, etc. They've not only been able to shoot, they've been able to play ball. I saw 'snipers' in Ahearn. While useful, there are better players to land out there.

Zeke can be useful if the elite-level shooting manifests. I'm glad to see him getting more minutes.

 

Rob was pretty soft when he started too. "Snipers" are a dime a dozen. 6 10 guys who can play inside and outside are rare. Ford will be recruiting over Moore before he recruits over Welmer, simply because the prevalence of their style of play shows up at a different rate amongst players.

Ford will probably recruit over Jalen, but Jalen will be very useful next year off the bench. There HAS to be some physicality that isn't starting, Jalen is the only option there. I would expect him to transfer after his Sophomore year.

Mitchell wasn't nearly as good a shooter as he seems like in hindsight. He hit some huge daggers we all remember, but he was never over the 35% range from 3P. His real strength was in facilitating. I woudn't call him a great shooter. Guys like Claggett, Highmark, and even Lisch, though, I would agree on.

I also guess I'm just not nearly as sold on Welmer being this inside force as some people are. It's hard for me to imagine him ever playing regular minutes on a tournament team, but I'd love to be wrong. A lot of the talk about Loe centered on the novelty of a seven foot Aussie shooting threes, but his real strength (at least by his senior year) was his defense against tourney-caliber opponents. I just don't see any inkling of that in Welmer.

[kmbilliken]

I don't recall Loe being a good defender as a freshman. Welmer could grow into it like Loe did.

[Soderball]

On 12/27/2016 at 1:53 PM, hsmith19 said:

Mitchell wasn't nearly as good a shooter as he seems like in hindsight. He hit some huge daggers we all remember, but he was never over the 35% range from 3P. His real strength was in facilitating. I woudn't call him a great shooter. Guys like Claggett, Highmark, and even Lisch, though, I would agree on.

I also guess I'm just not nearly as sold on Welmer being this inside force as some people are. It's hard for me to imagine him ever playing regular minutes on a tournament team, but I'd love to be wrong. A lot of the talk about Loe centered on the novelty of a seven foot Aussie shooting threes, but his real strength (at least by his senior year) was his defense against tourney-caliber opponents. I just don't see any inkling of that in Welmer.

i see better stuff from him than any of the other next-year options.

 

he has shown me more so far than Zeke has.

[brianstl]

10 hours ago, Soderball said:

i see better stuff from him than any of the other next-year options.

 

he has shown me more so far than Zeke has.

I think Welmer recently turned or will soon turn 22.  That has to be factored in when you project his development going forward.  One positive about Zeke is that he is progressing as the season has moved on. In the 7 games since the Vegas trip, Zeke has shot 44% from 3.  In that same time period Welmer has regressed and shot 23% from 3.