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GDT: How Bad Arer We? No One Started One. Shocked


Taj79

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9 hours ago, RiseAndGrind said:

I thought we had 'em.

sometimes I wonder what Jim Crews was thinking when he put this team together. It's so devoid of any real talent.

I really think he urinated himself when a player signed an LOI. Majerus crapped in a towel to prove a point; Crews soiled himself because he couldn't believe someone bought the absolute horseshit bill of goods he sold.

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1 hour ago, CBFan said:

Because he is the tallest person on the team and next years team may need someone tall to defend a big center.  I read posts that say available scholarship should be used for a center.  If the center position cannot be filled with the available scholarship why not work with Neufeld on this lost season?  I mean no disrespect, you know more about the position then I do because of your description of Neufeld's play and I just do not see that.  So from what I understand that is why I want to see more of Neufeld.

CBFan, i want to see way, way more zeke moore. id like to see him 20 mins a game at least. he needs to shoot and show that he can do it.

 

but come off of it with neufeld. if neufeld is still here by June then Ford is not as good of a recruiter as i thought. Neufeld will not be here next year. he has zero talent or potential. He cant play and its not his fault. Nice kid, bright future, not in basketball.

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I am really down on Neufeld right now, but I will withhold final judgement for a few more weeks.  I find it interesting that his minutes have dramatically increased over the past two games.  That tells me he is getting in better shape as he moves further away from his bout of mono and that he has to be showing something in practice.  I hope he will benefit from gaining strength has he gets further away from mono and he is the one big that I think can really benefit from Tate's coaching.

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I know we have recruits coming but I still cannot help criticize this team.

We might have the slowest team in division 1.  Every single fast break we have, the opposing defenders catch up to us in about 3 strides.  People who see Bishop as even an average player spend too much time looking at the box score.  He honestly reminds me of former billiken walk-on Peyton Jacks (I might be the only one who remembers him). 

I would play Zeke and JJ as many minutes as they possibly can just so they can get used to what can be done at the D1 level.  Zeke is already making strides in the shot selection department and looks to be improving in his defensive technique.  JJ is also getting experience which will pay dividends later.

I just can't believe how much of a pass this board is giving Mike Crawford.  This is a senior who gets big minutes, who looks like one of the worst players on the team right now.  I understand that he might be hurt and people feel bad for him, but every time he gets the ball something bad happens.

For overall grades -- I give Mike, AG, MN, Hines an F, Roby, Bishop a D, Reggie gets B-, and Zeke and JJ get Bs.

I am torn whether to just play like we did against Alabama (slow/grind/zone) to keep it close and actually running Ford's envisioned plan.  We pressed for the entire 2nd half and (I think) caused ZERO turnovers while doing it.  If we got a steal I dont remember it. 

I watched every minute of the game last night, and it is hard work being a Billiken fan.

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51 minutes ago, Soderball said:

CBFan, i want to see way, way more zeke moore. id like to see him 20 mins a game at least. he needs to shoot and show that he can do it.

One more tiny sign of hope:  Zeke showed me some energy and toughness in the second half.  My first thoughts on him, over early practices, were about how clueless he was, defensively.  A function of very poor high school coaching, which by the way is pretty common in these parts.  Good news: He's improving, folks.  All of which is part of a bigger sign of (some) hope:  at least the guys did not give up; several of them played with heart after intermission.  That's hard, given the debacle of the first half... (shooting = 3 for 29; of which they were 1 for 18 from 2-pt range (!!!), which is actually pretty hard to do)...

On the downside:  wow, I'm having a hard time recalling a team get moved around so easily on the block/ post.  That was depressing;  and WSU bigs are not exactly NBA lottery picks: they're pretty good, but what would happen against a truly big and muscular group.  Don't ask, don't tell...

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6 minutes ago, SLU_Nick said:

 

We might have the slowest team in division 1. 

I watched every minute of the game last night, and it is hard work being a Billiken fan.

-I agree with these two and I think the last iteration of my signature was it is very hard work being a Billiken fan - very is key at this point 

-it would be good to see AG, ZM and JJ either severely reduce or eliminate the one dribble pick up 'move' and I will note ZM has cut this down from the start of the season

-I posted yesterday somewhere that there are some points of concern on the coaching but nothing too upsetting, I will address one issue I don't like in back to back games is not using timeouts, we have four and I think in the last two games each ended with two unused, it is not like we had great momentum so using one just to give the guys a break would be helpful and i hope the staff has instruction to give - a big evaluation of the staff this season might be ensuring the guys give effort if we don't win but a couple more games

-if for 2017-18 we are healthy, we need to find 3 players either from the current roster or new schollies, all but MC and RA have a chance to show it, let's see who does

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8 minutes ago, hsmith19 said:

I'm starting to get a little worried about SIUE. They've already beaten a couple decentish teams.

I sure hope we beat SIUE but it's looking doubtful -- I mentioned at some point they are decent, and certainly decent enough to give us major problems, though as I recall some found my remarks off base.  (possibly because, admittedly, I have not seen them play -- but I have seen us play).

Too bad if we lose -- because by my could, there are only about 4 games left that I would call "winnable."  That's not to say we might not rise up and snap a couple upsets, somewhere, like we did last season.  But sadly, my original guess of 5-6 wins is now staring us all in the face -- IF we can pull off those 4 wins! 

For next year, I can see 4-5 guys on the current roster who can compete for PT;  assuming we see some improvement and coaching and weightlifting combined!  Then again, with up to 7 new faces, all of whom are going to be much more athletic --maybe only JB & one or 2 more; or, maybe zero.  Lest we forget, however -- JJ was a Ford recruit!

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31 minutes ago, SLU_Nick said:

I know we have recruits coming but I still cannot help criticize this team.

We might have the slowest team in division 1.  Every single fast break we have, the opposing defenders catch up to us in about 3 strides.  People who see Bishop as even an average player spend too much time looking at the box score.  He honestly reminds me of former billiken walk-on Peyton Jacks (I might be the only one who remembers him). 

I would play Zeke and JJ as many minutes as they possibly can just so they can get used to what can be done at the D1 level.  Zeke is already making strides in the shot selection department and looks to be improving in his defensive technique.  JJ is also getting experience which will pay dividends later.

I just can't believe how much of a pass this board is giving Mike Crawford.  This is a senior who gets big minutes, who looks like one of the worst players on the team right now.  I understand that he might be hurt and people feel bad for him, but every time he gets the ball something bad happens.

For overall grades -- I give Mike, AG, MN, Hines an F, Roby, Bishop a D, Reggie gets B-, and Zeke and JJ get Bs.

I am torn whether to just play like we did against Alabama (slow/grind/zone) to keep it close and actually running Ford's envisioned plan.  We pressed for the entire 2nd half and (I think) caused ZERO turnovers while doing it.  If we got a steal I dont remember it. 

I watched every minute of the game last night, and it is hard work being a Billiken fan.

There's no doubt Zeke was helped by that halftime break. 0-4 from the field before it, and 4-4 after it, including 3-3 from 3. He's got a really nice stroke. No doubt he's got a lot to learn, but he handles the ball well for his length and position and a shooter with his size who appears to have enough other skills to build on, he's a guy you keep around.

JJ still looks lost out there, but he's strangely effective for his minutes. I'll be shaking my head after a couple bad plays but then see the box score and realize he's actually scoring and getting rebounds and disrupting shots. Again- lots to learn here but I think he's a guy you keep around.

There's no doubt Crawford has been hurting most of this season, and he's been hurting us. We needed his shot, steadiness, and leadership this season. I'm not seeing it.

Agbeko was never going to keep up the pace he started at against poorer competition, but when he's bad, he's really bad. He has the worst hands I've seen in a long time. No instincts. Just a guy you want underneath picking up rebounds and garbage buckets. He was almost a non-factor last night. 4 and 4 in 18 minutes.

Bishop is so frustrating and enigmatic. His line last night - 35 minutes, 12 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 turnovers - leads you to believe that he's the man on our roster. He was semi-respectable from the field on a night when the team was not. But his points came mostly early in the second half and he didn't seem half as effective as his numbers suggest.

Roby was dreadful.

Welmer has to be more consistent.

slufan13 has been hammering this point lately - this team is bad enough this season that we may very well have a depth problem next year. I definitely went into this season intrigued by what we'd see, who might emerge as a serious rotation player on a deeper, more talented squad next year, but you really have to squint to see it in most cases. I still stand by my opinion that I like Johnson, Moore, and Welmer and want to keep them around. Bishop can and should be so much better and more consistent than he is; he'd have a role if he can play like he should. But honestly, I'd be having tough conversations with most of these guys in March.

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54 minutes ago, SLU_Nick said:

I know we have recruits coming but I still cannot help criticize this team.

We might have the slowest team in division 1.  Every single fast break we have, the opposing defenders catch up to us in about 3 strides.  People who see Bishop as even an average player spend too much time looking at the box score.  He honestly reminds me of former billiken walk-on Peyton Jacks (I might be the only one who remembers him). 

I would play Zeke and JJ as many minutes as they possibly can just so they can get used to what can be done at the D1 level.  Zeke is already making strides in the shot selection department and looks to be improving in his defensive technique.  JJ is also getting experience which will pay dividends later.

I just can't believe how much of a pass this board is giving Mike Crawford.  This is a senior who gets big minutes, who looks like one of the worst players on the team right now.  I understand that he might be hurt and people feel bad for him, but every time he gets the ball something bad happens.

For overall grades -- I give Mike, AG, MN, Hines an F, Roby, Bishop a D, Reggie gets B-, and Zeke and JJ get Bs.

I am torn whether to just play like we did against Alabama (slow/grind/zone) to keep it close and actually running Ford's envisioned plan.  We pressed for the entire 2nd half and (I think) caused ZERO turnovers while doing it.  If we got a steal I dont remember it. 

I watched every minute of the game last night, and it is hard work being a Billiken fan.

Bishop = Payton Jacks is just a silly over the top statement. We shall see if Bishop can be a solid contributor to a top 100 or top 50 or better team in the next couple of years. However, worst case would be a good player on a lower level D1 team. He's not even 1/3 the way into his soph season on a team with almost no one who can score around him. Payton Jacks wouldn't have been anything more than an average player at Harris Stowe.

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23 minutes ago, Pistol said:

slufan13 has been hammering this point lately - this team is bad enough this season that we may very well have a depth problem next year. I definitely went into this season intrigued by what we'd see, who might emerge as a serious rotation player on a deeper, more talented squad next year, but you really have to squint to see it in most cases. I still stand by my opinion that I like Johnson, Moore, and Welmer and want to keep them around. Bishop can and should be so much better and more consistent than he is; he'd have a role if he can play like he should. But honestly, I'd be having tough conversations with most of these guys in March.

I think Welmer & Bishop (and to some extent Roby) will look better in limited minutes. 

Moore & JJ will be good, i think. 

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I think Bishop continues to demonstrate my point that he is not a point guard.  he is better suited to a shooting guard, off the bench, ala McBroom as some have said.  One truth to the matter is that we are well-known now to have allsorts of problems in the first half, coming out of the locker room.  Down 36 to 9 should demonstrate that.  And then Bishop goes off in the second half as he seems to have done this entire season.  Why is that?  Some might argue halftime adjustments.  Frankly, I don't know but could it be that Bishop is trying to be an all-involving point in the first half and thinks too much, ignoring that direction and being "himself" in the second half?  Could be or it could just be me reaching to support my point that he is not a point.  Whatever.  It could also be that teams with large leads also tend to slack off in the second half, figuring we get this show over with and hits the streets and relax.  Same might be applied to Moore for his second half efforts but who knows.  It's hard to evaluate when you're playing from so far down all the time in the second half.  We did see that in the Alabama game .. when we played from so far up in the closing minutes.  I have no clue.

I will compliment Moore and Johnson on some fire last night.  They did not back down when the hairdo wanted to tussle some.  Those calling for Crawford's head are likely going to pick up some steam until Mike is healthy --which I've said is likely going to be never this season.  Eventually, Ford will likely cut bait with the seniors and insert his keepers for much more time.  At least that's what I would do.  Sorry Mike -- you too can send your Christmas card to the Jiminies as well.  They failed to understand talent and left you bereft of any supporting cast for the last three years.  Reggie is back to Reggie when the opposition is upgraded.  Dumb fouls, hands of stone, missed bunnies. Not going to be the second coming of Brian Conklin as a senior.   

Gillmann just shows no hope and Neufeld is not far behind.  Every single Crewsplatt recruit is weak somewhere; thank god they had enough sense to can that clown.

Moving forward nothing has changed.  Can Bishop be a point guard.  Are Moore and Johnson keepers?  Are Gillmann and Neufeld goners?  I had 11 wins.  Trend now says maybe 8.  Last year, I'll admit to wanting to lose, just so the fate of Crewsplatt was sealed.  Now that that's accomplished, I feel real bad for the situation these kids have been place din again by the dearly departed. 

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1 hour ago, Pistol said:

Bishop is so frustrating and enigmatic. His line last night - 35 minutes, 12 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 turnovers - leads you to believe that he's the man on our roster. He was semi-respectable from the field on a night when the team was not. But his points came mostly early in the second half and he didn't seem half as effective as his numbers suggest.

slufan13 has been hammering this point lately - this team is bad enough this season that we may very well have a depth problem next year. I definitely went into this season intrigued by what we'd see, who might emerge as a serious rotation player on a deeper, more talented squad next year, but you really have to squint to see it in most cases. I still stand by my opinion that I like Johnson, Moore, and Welmer and want to keep them around. Bishop can and should be so much better and more consistent than he is; he'd have a role if he can play like he should. But honestly, I'd be having tough conversations with most of these guys in March.

We could honestly see 5 new starters next season. I thought we would probably see 4, but French may get the nod over anyone on the current roster. 

I thought we had enough talent to fill 3-4 spots on next year's roster. Now I'm not so sure. Johnson, Moore, Bishop, Roby, and Welmer seem to be fighting for, at most, 4 spots next season. I hope we give serious consideration to a grad transfer, preferably a PG.

Disregarding a PG issue, our guard depth appears (APPEARS) to be solid going into next season. Especially if Bishop becomes the '4th' guard. 

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Bishop is terrible defensively and seems to always have a terrible turnover at a key spot.  Last night we got a little momentum going early in the second half, we hit some shots, cut six points off the the lead and then Bishop goes wildly into the lane before passing the ball to a WSU player two feet away from him.  Also, for a guy that is supposed to be running the offense he has the ability to make everyone else around him look worse.

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1 hour ago, slufanskip said:

Bishop = Payton Jacks is just a silly over the top statement. We shall see if Bishop can be a solid contributor to a top 100 or top 50 or better team in the next couple of years. However, worst case would be a good player on a lower level D1 team. He's not even 1/3 the way into his soph season on a team with almost no one who can score around him. Payton Jacks wouldn't have been anything more than an average player at Harris Stowe.

I will concede that it was a silly statement.  That said, I genuinely think Peyton shot the ball just as good JB, has the same physical characteristics and played about the same defense (read: none).  I dont know why everyone assumes our players belong in Division 1 just because they were recruited by Jim Crews and happen to play on our team.  In fact, evidence has indicated the opposite.   

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I don't think anything about Bishop as a person, but it wouldn't totally surprise me if he didn't want to go from playing 30 minutes/game and taking the most shots on the team to being a 10-15 minutes guy off the bench and have his primary role be to set up others. He could be the kind of guy who could actually be somewhat valuable next year (in a limited role) who ends up leaving to go to a situation where he can still be "the guy". I know these guys want to win, but they also want to play. 

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33 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I don't think anything about Bishop as a person, but it wouldn't totally surprise me if he didn't want to go from playing 30 minutes/game and taking the most shots on the team to being a 10-15 minutes guy off the bench and have his primary role be to set up others. He could be the kind of guy who could actually be somewhat valuable next year (in a limited role) who ends up leaving to go to a situation where he can still be "the guy". I know these guys want to win, but they also want to play. 

Like our little own Spike Albrecht.

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First of all to make a blanket statement that high school coaches in the area are poor coaches is just silly.  I would agree some are better or worse than others but I happen to know several who are still coaching and who had been coaching until fairly recently and I would not describe them as poor coaches.  Second, I find it interesting that an academic would be willing to base their entire opinion on one set of the factors involved.  Where is the academic rigor which requires a thorough investigation of the matter before reaching a conclusion.  Third Bishop is not McCall, Jett, or Mitchell but to say he is so bad that he has to go is just not a reasonable position.  As was pointed out by someone else that he is not even at the half way point of his sophomore year so lets settle down and give it time to work out one way or the other.  I do think Slufan13 has a good point - maybe Bishop will not want to share his time but then do we have a replacement at least as good - not on this team and who knows what is out there.  Welmer is not going anywhere - he is a decent player and will get better with time and practice and he will not want to sit another year out to transfer.  We should all hope he wants to stay.  Neufeld is getting more playing time as of late for a reason - Ford thinks he may have something or he wants to see if Matt is not the answer - whichever it is only Ford knows. Finally, complaining about this team and the talent or lack there of may make you feel better but honestly what is the point.  Chill out is my approach.

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Neufeld is terrible. needs to go now.

 

really, folks, how are you capable of defending his play? Adam Knollmeyer was far better than AG or MN. Far better.

Brett Thompson was quicker stronger and bigger. more talented. Majerus humiliated him in front of his parents in a public space and ran him off.

lose the kid gloves.. you dont win with sentimental statements, you win with talent and tough, disciplined play.

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Agree with Cheeseman, Ford has to try to do as best as he can with what he has. That means playing time and trying out players that are not liked by this board. We are at the beginning of a season and there is no way we can replace anyone at this time, there is also no way we can play the rest of the season with Crawford and Agbeko as our main players. Roby, Bishop, Neufeld, and Gilmann deserve time to develop as well as Wellmer, Moore, and Johnson. We can deal with this season after it is over, and hopefully some of the players will benefit from the experience. Let's get this straight we are not going anywhere close to post season play this year, period. Let the man do his thing, after all he is in charge and bears responsibility for the outcome.

And by the way, I am not in favor of anyone humiliating and berating any players in public and in front of his parents. All of this can be handled in private.

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55 minutes ago, Soderball said:

Neufeld is terrible. needs to go now.

 

really, folks, how are you capable of defending his play? Adam Knollmeyer was far better than AG or MN. Far better.

Brett Thompson was quicker stronger and bigger. more talented. Majerus humiliated him in front of his parents in a public space and ran him off.

lose the kid gloves.. you dont win with sentimental statements, you win with talent and tough, disciplined play.

Who is defending Neufeld's play?

I agree with Cheeseman, Ford thinks he may have something or he wants to see if Matt is not the answer .

Respectfully you know more about what to look for in a developing player than I do.

I love this site because I learn a lot from the posters, most on this site agree with your opinion of Neufeld.

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2 hours ago, Soderball said:

Neufeld is terrible. needs to go now.

 

really, folks, how are you capable of defending his play? Adam Knollmeyer was far better than AG or MN. Far better.

Brett Thompson was quicker stronger and bigger. more talented. Majerus humiliated him in front of his parents in a public space and ran him off.

lose the kid gloves.. you dont win with sentimental statements, you win with talent and tough, disciplined play.

True. I've never seen neufeld dunk over a trash can 

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