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I'll use this thread to say a few things in defense of our great new coach: (& responding to many comments over many threads)

All this talk about whether or not TF is a "great in game coach" is tiresome and pretty silly.  First, there are probably only a few "great in game coaches" to begin with.  Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, who knows and we can all have opinions.  But who are all these great in game coaches, anyway?  Why not just give it a chill, for now?  I really think this is being overexaggerated.  Plus how many guys on here could recognize it anyway??

Second, playing well in games is about 95% more about recruiting players, then working them hard and getting them ready to play in practices, over a very long period of time.  Here is where Coach Ford is outstanding, I think.  Actually we all witnessed how intensive prep and training talke over, with the Jett/Evans group, who were extremely well prepared as a team, they really needed little coaching, if you think about it.

In these ways, I'm becoming a HUGE fan of Coach Ford, and I will tell you why: he is just relentless, one of the hardest working and passionate guys you can ever meet.  His practices are intense and extremely well organized and over time will produce a very effective team, on the court.  Just about everybody has similar things to say about him, too.  When he speaks, believe me, everyone in the gym is listening.  He knows exactly what he wants, and how to train it into the athletes, and he is watching everything like a hawk.  Still, he is extremely upbeat and really puts everyone on the same page.  It's a powerful combination, & It is just lightyears ahead of where these things were in the past.  Given the progress so far, and the prep over time, any MBM could coach this team in a couple years in game and do well -- because the team will be extremely athletic, skilled, & very well prepared, and they also happen to have a few top-100 athletes sprinkled in, trained to do certain things and play a certain way.  In this regard Ford is just tireless and overflowing with energy and effort -- which is being reflected in the recruiting.  And it rubs off on people.  I cannot overemphasize these things, and I will take them, over this mythic idea of the "great in game coach."

Fact is, sometime the good guys get fired too.  Has it ever occurred to some of you guys that we may just have lucked into one of the next big things??  Yes, I'm drinkin' the kool-aid!

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20 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

I'll use this thread to say a few things in defense of our great new coach: (& responding to many comments over many threads)

All this talk about whether or not TF is a "great in game coach" is tiresome and pretty silly.  First, there are probably only a few "great in game coaches" to begin with.  Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, who knows and we can all have opinions.  But who are all these great in game coaches, anyway?  Why not just give it a chill, for now?  I really think this is being overexaggerated.  Plus how many guys on here could recognize it anyway??

Second, playing well in games is about 95% more about recruiting players, then working them hard and getting them ready to play in practices, over a very long period of time.  Here is where Coach Ford is outstanding, I think.  Actually we all witnessed how intensive prep and training talke over, with the Jett/Evans group, who were extremely well prepared as a team, they really needed little coaching, if you think about it.

In these ways, I'm becoming a HUGE fan of Coach Ford, and I will tell you why: he is just relentless, one of the hardest working and passionate guys you can ever meet.  His practices are intense and extremely well organized and over time will produce a very effective team, on the court.  Just about everybody has similar things to say about him, too.  When he speaks, believe me, everyone in the gym is listening.  He knows exactly what he wants, and how to train it into the athletes, and he is watching everything like a hawk.  Still, he is extremely upbeat and really puts everyone on the same page.  It's a powerful combination, & It is just lightyears ahead of where these things were in the past.  Given the progress so far, and the prep over time, any MBM could coach this team in a couple years in game and do well -- because the team will be extremely athletic, skilled, & very well prepared, and they also happen to have a few top-100 athletes sprinkled in, trained to do certain things and play a certain way.  In this regard Ford is just tireless and overflowing with energy and effort -- which is being reflected in the recruiting.  And it rubs off on people.  I cannot overemphasize these things, and I will take them, over this mythic idea of the "great in game coach."

Fact is, sometime the good guys get fired too.  Has it ever occurred to some of you guys that we may just have lucked into one of the next big things??  Yes, I'm drinkin' the kool-aid!

Pass me a glass, Jim Jones! I agree - I think everyone wants this master strategist when really the most important thing is finding players that will not only buy into your system/program, but will mesh well together on the floor. I think Ford excels in this department. He's done some internal house cleaning, which was expected, and now is building around the remaining pieces with an eye to the future. Brilliant.

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Here is my point to add.  I DO think we will see, this year, how good a coach, Coach Ford is.  I'm not looking at wins and losses or points scored, I am looking at effort, discipline and knowledge of assignments by this year's team.  Will he get the team to buy into his philosophy?  Can/will Ford and his staff make adjustments that are necessary to counter what the opponent is having success with?  Can he install a zone defense that works?  Can he teach his system well enough for this year's team to look cohesive? 

Many have given Coach Ford a free pass for this season already.  Sure this is a work in progress.  Sure we are short on manpower, but there will be indicators that will be evident in the first 10 games that we are in fact on the right path.  So what if we finish 14th in the A-10.  Is the arrow pointing up, down, or remaining where it is on the court.

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I happen to think the coaching ability question is foolhardy for most.  I think there are only a few that pull it off with any regularity ---- Bellicheck, Majerus, Paterno, Izzo, --- and most of this stems from having time to prepare for an opponent rather than things done in the heat of the battle.  Halftime adjustments are a better evaluator if you ask me.  Crewsplatt had none.  Certain guys get a free pass at times --- Pitino, Krzyzewski, Calipari, Roy Williams --- but its a hell of a lot easier to coach with mega-talent on your side.  Majerus was great for halftime adjustments. 

On the flip side, I always thought with some bench coaches, you had an advantage when they came to town because you'd know they'd freeze.  I always felt that way with Finch at Memphis State, Calipari at the same, Jim O'Brien and Brian Gregory at Dayton, Rich Herrin at SIU, Mike Deanne at Marquette, and so on.  I always thought we had a chance at home under Spoon no matter who we played.  And Majerus ruled Chaifetz.

Ford is aces in my book right now.  Again, this year can only be about evaluating the progress of the returning guys for next year ---- Roby, Gillmann, Bishop, Johnson, Welmer, Moore and Neufeld --- while wishing nothing but the best happens for Crawford and Agbeko.  I still believe matching the 11 wins notched for each of the last two years will be tough.  The cloud of doom and gloom over the horizon has dissipated.  Once again , it will be fun to be a Billiken in the near future.

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Putting talent together is the most important thing for a coach - it can overcome a lot of x's and o's shortcomings. Some people thought Sodie was an excellent x's and o's coach (which is debatable) and he couldn't get to the Dance with some talent (Lisch, Liddell and Ian). We're not used to seeing a coach string together so much talent in such a short time. It's been fun.  I can't wait to see who we're able to get with this last 2017 scholarship.

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41 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-I have a simple metric I will use to judge this season, are we playing better at the end of the season than we were at the start and this could very well be independent of the win/loss record

This was exactly what I used to evaluate Crews last year - he failed.  It is fair to do the same for Ford.  I do agree if you have the horses the jockey becomes less important.

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I'm pumped about what Doc B is witnessing at practice.  I agree with him that preparation is key.  I know a bit about training for high pressure situations and maximizing the effectiveness of training.  I like to see execution.

 

STL loves the idea that hard work can overcome glitz.  So we love Spoon, we love Majerus.  We love scrappy players.

Results matter, records are clear wins-losses and the tourney really matters.  So far recruiting results could not be better.  Ws remain to be seen but I'm feeling good.

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1 hour ago, ACE said:

Putting talent together is the most important thing for a coach - it can overcome a lot of x's and o's shortcomings. Some people thought Sodie was an excellent x's and o's coach (which is debatable) and he couldn't get to the Dance with some talent (Lisch, Liddell and Ian). We're not used to seeing a coach string together so much talent in such a short time. It's been fun.  I can't wait to see who we're able to get with this last 2017 scholarship.

I think this is the key point. Ford is assembling a roster that on paper will outclass most of the A-10. In the Big 12 while he recruited quite well at Oklahoma State, the other programs had at least fairly comparable talent. The x's and o's concerns are becoming much less of a concern for many of us.

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2 hours ago, Taj79 said:

On the flip side, I always thought with some bench coaches, you had an advantage when they came to town because you'd know they'd freeze.  I always felt that way with Finch at Memphis State, Calipari at the same, Jim O'Brien and Brian Gregory at Dayton, Rich Herrin at SIU, Mike Deanne at Marquette, and so on.  I always thought we had a chance at home under Spoon no matter who we played.

 

I always remember a quote from Bobby Knight when they played LSU in the 1987 NCAA Tourney, down 8 with 7 minutes to go.

"I was worried about losing until I looked down the floor and saw Dale Brown. Then I knew we had a chance."

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3 hours ago, DoctorB said:

I'll use this thread to say a few things in defense of our great new coach: (& responding to many comments over many threads)

All this talk about whether or not TF is a "great in game coach" is tiresome and pretty silly.  First, there are probably only a few "great in game coaches" to begin with.  Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, who knows and we can all have opinions.  But who are all these great in game coaches, anyway?  Why not just give it a chill, for now?  I really think this is being overexaggerated.  Plus how many guys on here could recognize it anyway??

Second, playing well in games is about 95% more about recruiting players, then working them hard and getting them ready to play in practices, over a very long period of time.  Here is where Coach Ford is outstanding, I think.  Actually we all witnessed how intensive prep and training talke over, with the Jett/Evans group, who were extremely well prepared as a team, they really needed little coaching, if you think about it.

In these ways, I'm becoming a HUGE fan of Coach Ford, and I will tell you why: he is just relentless, one of the hardest working and passionate guys you can ever meet.  His practices are intense and extremely well organized and over time will produce a very effective team, on the court.  Just about everybody has similar things to say about him, too.  When he speaks, believe me, everyone in the gym is listening.  He knows exactly what he wants, and how to train it into the athletes, and he is watching everything like a hawk.  Still, he is extremely upbeat and really puts everyone on the same page.  It's a powerful combination, & It is just lightyears ahead of where these things were in the past.  Given the progress so far, and the prep over time, any MBM could coach this team in a couple years in game and do well -- because the team will be extremely athletic, skilled, & very well prepared, and they also happen to have a few top-100 athletes sprinkled in, trained to do certain things and play a certain way.  In this regard Ford is just tireless and overflowing with energy and effort -- which is being reflected in the recruiting.  And it rubs off on people.  I cannot overemphasize these things, and I will take them, over this mythic idea of the "great in game coach."

Fact is, sometime the good guys get fired too.  Has it ever occurred to some of you guys that we may just have lucked into one of the next big things??  Yes, I'm drinkin' the kool-aid!

Dr B, exactly what I have been trying to say in a number of threads.  This is not a time in Billiken MBB to be constantly bringing up unfounded negatives.  Thanks for jumping into this issue.  It sounds like you have seen a number of practices so I'm glad you are drinkin' the kool-aid!

I know, this is a message board and everyone can express any opinion, no matter how negative, but JMJ at this point in time, give it a rest!

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You're right Bauman!  Ford has nothing to prove and we should just all be happy with Ford's incredible recruiting.   Any comments regarding Ford's firing by OSU, tourney track record, and game management are just hating, haters, doing what they do best, hating.

 

I love you Bauman but you do occasionally remind me of a Billiken "Baghdad Bob."

 

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39 minutes ago, bauman said:

This is not a time in Billiken MBB to be constantly bringing up unfounded negatives.

I don't understand why some posters feel the need to stir up arguments concerning Coach Ford when everyone is currently quite pleased with what he has done. The negatives about his coaching are founded, but few of us truly care at this point and many of us with those concerns are much less so seeing just the amount of talent he has been able to bring on board in such a short period of time. Let's just celebrate the current buzz Ford has created for the program without poking those of us who had criticisms of Coach Ford.

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1 minute ago, TheChosenOne said:

I don't understand why some posters feel the need to stir up arguments concerning Coach Ford when everyone is currently quite pleased with what he has done. The negatives about his coaching are founded, but none of us truly care at this point and many of us with those concerns are much less so seeing just the amount of talent he has been able to bring on board in such a short period of time. Let's just celebrate the current buzz Ford has created for the program without poking those of us who had criticisms of Coach Ford.

Billiken fan syndrome. We've had the best stretch of recruiting in program history and we're getting "Let's not forget he hasn't been a good floor coach in the past" or "Are other programs already calling about him and/or Tate?"

Let's ride it out. I won't have much to say about his practice or game coaching until late 2017 at the earliest. In the meantime, sleep soundly knowing that major talent is on the way, and that alone is enough to win this conference.

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9 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Billiken fan syndrome. We've had the best stretch of recruiting in program history and we're getting "Let's not forget he hasn't been a good floor coach in the past" or "Are other programs already calling about him and/or Tate?"

But it appears to be the opposite of that first one (since posters are essentially saying that the posters with those concerns were or are clearly wrong), all of us (regardless of what we thought of the hire originally) are on cloud nine with what Ford has done in such a short period of time to completely overhaul the roster, let's stir up arguments among ourselves. It just strikes me as quite odd, very sports talk radio hot take stuff. Ford's approval rating is thru the roof, can't we just enjoy it (I doubt anyone who questioned the Ford hiring will care if they are proven to be completely wrong)?

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I think it was 2008 when it really hit me, the fact that talent wins. I vividly remember watching the final that year between Memphis and Kansas and thinking, "Oh...these guys aren't really out there to run sets or make their coaches look smart. They're just talented." It was kind of ugly, actually. They just went right at each other in basic dribble-drive offense all game. KU hacked Memphis all night because Cal's players couldn't make free throws. It was two rosters of really big, really good players playing extremely physical basketball, and each of them ended up in the finals because they'd done that all season.

I was cautiously optimistic - with an emphasis on caution - about the Ford hire from the start because I knew he could get talent and I had never been a fan of how his teams had performed. We just have to let it play out, though. There's absolutely no reason the talent we have waiting in the wings can't win a conference title as early as next season, or at least come close. Ford has been around long enough to have learned some things. He's had a high-profile firing. He's a different coach now than he was at UMass before. He's in a situation now where he'll be allowed to do his thing without the pressure of a big-money BCS program. I could see it working out well for us.

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3 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

But it appears to be the opposite of that first one (since posters are essentially those with those concerns were or are clearly wrong), all of us (regardless of what we thought of the hire originally) are on cloud nine with what Ford has done in such a short period of time to completely overhaul the roster, let's stir up arguments among ourselves. It just strikes me as quite odd, very sports talk radio hot take stuff.

Here's my hot take for the day: I hope that treadmill is on wheels and easy to move around, because I'd hate to be the manager in charge of setting it up and taking it down for every practice.

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12 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Here's my hot take for the day: I hope that treadmill is on wheels and easy to move around, because I'd hate to be the manager in charge of setting it up and taking it down for every practice.

That would certainly be a pain in the ass to move in and out every practice. I can think of two former student managers who would somehow find a way to never draw that task. I know a guy who was too cheap to pay someone to move a treadmill out of his basement, so he did it himself and found himself at the ER due to pulling something in his back; certainly paid more in medical bills than it would have cost to pay a mover.

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34 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Billiken fan syndrome. We've had the best stretch of recruiting in program history and we're getting "Let's not forget he hasn't been a good floor coach in the past" or "Are other programs already calling about him and/or Tate?"

Let's ride it out. I won't have much to say about his practice or game coaching until late 2017 at the earliest. In the meantime, sleep soundly knowing that major talent is on the way, and that alone is enough to win this conference.

+1 The thread about Tate was ridiculous. I think a few people are overwhelmed by all the good recruiting news and won't allow themselves to enjoy it for a bit.

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Just now, ACE said:

+1 The thread about Tate was ridiculous. I think a few people are overwhelmed by all the good recruiting news and won't allow themselves to enjoy it for a bit.

So that thread was really strange and fits that narrative, but the arguments about Ford's coaching ability are being started by those poking those who questioned Coach Ford when he was hired. That is what seems really odd to me. Essentially baiting those individuals to be critical of a coach who is currently impressing the heck out of all of us.

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