Billiken Roy - where are you???

[bauman]

with all the recruiting news the last few days, I am wondering where our leading poster is hiding?  come on roy, weigh in.  coach tf is even doing this without running players off against their will.  (i even used all lower case letters in your honor)

[almaman]

I was thinking that earlier. Wanted him to look into any Althoff/Webster Groves matchups we could double up on seeing kids play  or maybe in same tournament

[RiseAndGrind]

In all seriousness and no snark - I really hope Roy is somewhere really enjoying this.

[majerus mojo]

*afraid to say anything about MB*

[billiken_roy]

Oh its exciting.   probably the most excited I've been as a billiken since lisch committed  to the billikens.   we all knew ford would up our talent and recruit well, but this has exceeded my wildest imagination   

That said, we also know that ford's reputation was a poor to mediocre at best floor and practice coach   so pardon me if I wait 2 years (won't get much insight this coming season.  thanks to  crewsplatt) to weigh in on how that looks.   

Probably the neatest thing is the local connection recruiting success.   that continues with some floor success, we will ignite this city.   

The second neatest thing I saw today was larry legend participating.  my seats are close to Larry's and I have seen it in larry hughes eyes his love of the billikens .    now we see him throwing his two cents in......that's exciting.   the best local player from St louis since 1950 tells young high school recruits to become billikens it's gonna make a mark.  plus let's not forget larry's son is coming in what 5 years?   just adds to the vision.

NOW ford needs to keep at least the talent infusion  going.   watson, ramey, young eric liddell (only a high school sophomore right now).   let's get em all.   thus far ford hasn't missed a thing and the word I get is he has worked tirelessly.   

Last thing,  I have been told our three transfers in waiting are the best players on the team by far.   so no matter what, we only have to wait one more painful year before at least being competitive again.   and if goodwin and french are the players we all are hoping for, our completely new starting five November 2017 is going to make us forget crews platt forever.   

[kshoe]

6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

Oh its exciting.   probably the most excited I've been as a billiken since lisch committed  to the billikens.   we all knew ford would up our talent and recruit well, but this has exceeded my wildest imagination   

That said, we also know that ford's reputation was a poor to mediocre at best floor and practice coach   so pardon me if I wait 2 years (won't get much insight this coming season.  thanks to  crewsplatt) to weigh in on how that looks.   

Probably the neatest thing is the local connection recruiting success.   that continues with some floor success, we will ignite this city.   

The second neatest thing I saw today was larry legend participating.  my seats are close to Larry's and I have seen it in larry hughes eyes his love of the billikens .    now we see him throwing his two cents in......that's exciting.   the best local player from St louis since 1950 tells young high school recruits to become billikens it's gonna make a mark.  plus let's not forget larry's son is coming in what 5 years?   just adds to the vision.

NOW ford needs to keep at least the talent infusion  going.   watson, ramey, young eric liddell (only a high school sophomore right now).   let's get em all.   thus far ford hasn't missed a thing and the word I get is he has worked tirelessly.   

Last thing,  I have been told our three transfers in waiting are the best players on the team by far.   so no matter what, we only have to wait one more painful year before at least being competitive again.   and if goodwin and french are the players we all are hoping for, our completely new starting five November 2017 is going to make us forget crews platt forever.   

Agree with everything here. It's a great time to be a Billiken!

[AnkielBreakers]

7 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

That said, we also know that ford's reputation was a poor to mediocre at best floor and practice coach

It will be fun watching you have to eat these words.

[Taj79]

sorry roy .... gotta do it .......

roy has joined a secret society; cavorting behind the scenes; rubbing elbows with Doctor types practicing in Chicago, Charleston and San Francisco;staying in touch with recruiting gurus in the Queen and Charm cities; analyzing sabremetrics and crunching nefarious numbers like maturity level claims made by reknown maturity level experts.  He is quite busy but thankful that we all are concerned about his welfare.

Keep those cards and letters coming.  He says he likes us.  He really does.

[AnkielBreakers]

9 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

That said, we also know that ford's reputation was a poor to mediocre at best floor and practice coach   

It will be fun watching you eat these words.

[majerus mojo]

4 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

It will be fun watching you eat these words.

That was really your takeaway from his post..... lol

Thanks for sharing, broy

[NextYearBill]

Had a thought today... Everybody talks about TFord being a bad game coach.... So was Jim Crews, but talent prevailed. Those teams coached themselves and Crews got coach of the year honors. Id rather have talent and roll the dice and see what comes up. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVING what im seeing. I will go to games this season to drink beer and talk with friends. Cant wait for TFord era to begin nextyear(bill)

[billiken_roy]

2 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

It will be fun watching you eat these words.

JO responses like this is why I don't post much anymore.   that M. O. is well renown not just my words.   im going back to the secret society.   

[Billiken Rich]

grow up

[Clock_Tower]

11 hours ago, NextYearBill said:

Had a thought today... Everybody talks about TFord being a bad game coach.... So was Jim Crews, but talent prevailed. Those teams coached themselves and Crews got coach of the year honors. Id rather have talent and roll the dice and see what comes up. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVING what im seeing. I will go to games this season to drink beer and talk with friends. Cant wait for TFord era to begin nextyear(bill)

Could not disagree more.  I can show program after program full of talent but run by poor game coaches which resulted in disappointing results.  The Larry Finch teams at Memphis initially come to mind.  Sure, the greater the talent, the greater the chance of winning games if that is your point.  If so, long gone are the 11 win losing seasons.  At the same time, I watched Brian Conklin as a freshman and did not come away thinking he would have a great 4 years of college and a nice professional career.  But after watching him beginning his Junior year before exploding his Senior year after being well-coached and being amazed at his nearly flawless footwork and technique allowing him to have success against bigger, stronger and more talented players, I truly appreciated what RM had done and was doing.   Same with Jett who was a raw talent but absolute turnover machine his Freshman year.  Did we all see talent his Freshman year?  Of course.  Did anyone see A-10 Player of the Year?  I say no.  Because of excellent coaching by RM, Jett (along with his teammates) truly changed their games since enrolling as Freshman, improved their games significantly like Jett did his Sophomore year.  Hats off to Jett and others who then kept the hard work going, who were reminded of the teaching fundamentals by his teammates and coaches (including Jim Crews) who then had two (2) excellent years with Crews at the helm.  Crews did not have success because he coached talent players but had success because he was at the helm of a Junior/Senior led team which had already been coached up to perfection.  Crews best attribute is that he let the team continue as having been assembled and coached up by RM.  Had Crews tried to changes things, the results would not have been good.  At the same time,  we saw Crews could not teach and instruct his own recruits who did not get better each year.  Look no further than Ash Youcoubu for a top 150 player who didn't develop and meet the expectations placed upon him coming out of high school.  Would I prefer a team of guys similar to Ash over guys similar to Jolly?  Sure.  But coaching up the talent and blending the talent into a winning team is just as important.  Look no further than Quin Snyder's Missouri teams who landed highly recruited players (mostly athletic guys who played the 2,3 and 4 positions) but who where poorly coached, who did not develop, who played selfishly and therefore his teams had disappointing years.  Did they have enough talent to win more than 10 or 11 games?  Of course. 

[Taj79]

Travis Ford has done so much in so little time, I too am truly shocked but amped up for next season when the Crewsplatt stench is eventually removed from the program.  While I recognize some kids transfer for the wrong reason, I am amped with what Ford has managed to secure in that area for us next year.  It is too bad they have to sit but I understand the rules.  Again all I'm looking for this season is a try out for the rising juniors and sophomores --- can they play well enough to be a contributor off next year's bench?  Or are they very typical of the Crewsplatt reach on most of them?  I think Roby and Gillmann can given some past accomplishments but more so in limited doses.  Neufeld and Moore and Welmer, we just don't know.  That is the benchmark I am looking to find this 2016-17 season.  As Ford says, measuring in wins and losses is foolish.

I sat impatient after the Goodwin signing but the past two days have relieved me of that condition.  The future is bright and I'm wearing shades.

Ford's in-game coaching has been questioned before.  That is known.  roy didn't invent it.  Majerus was a different breed -- he had a system and was more concerned about finding the right kid to accept it and play it.  He was such a savant that kids signed with him for that reason in my opinion.  Someleft when they realized they didn't know exactly what they signed up for.  I think with him at the helm, we go a lot farther in those two years Jiminy ran the helm.  I think Rick makes halftime adjustments to counter Oregon.  And I think he doesn't run the team into the ground the next year.  Unlike Crews.  Ford's pattern of getting the mid-range guys height-wise seems to be holding true.  Foreman, Bess, Henriquez, French and Gordon all fit that 6'5" to 6'8" mold.  In my opinion, this roster is extremely light on point guards so signing there may be the best objective.  It would be real nice if Neufeld developed and eliminated any need to focus on a five.  But the college game requires guards -- ballhandling and distribution guards --- and we are extremely light there.  And that is not a minor detail.  You can counter with Bishop and to me, he still needs to prove his distribution side but as some pointed out, Rick ran with three -- Mitchell, McCall and Jett.  And tome, saying that point is Goodwin is not enough.  So more work to do.

But anyone not praising Ford to the highest heights for what he has done so far is an idiot. 

If Ford can recruit talent similar to what he had at Okie State to SLU, given the competition in the A10 versus the Big Twelve, I think he's in the running for a league crown every year.  And I think St. Louis gives him more advantages than Stillwater ever could.  I haven't met Ford but the stills of him in comparison to Crews speak volumes.  Crews was as much a dinosaur as Majerus was except Crews didn't have the track record that separated Majerus from most.  Ford is like fantasy football where over 100 points are required to win most games and Crews was like a 1 to 0 soccer game in contrast.

The one thing I see coming from all this is hope.  No longer are we looking into the yaw of winter with boring Crewsplatt to reckon with.  I didn't think it was possible to be here so quickly but was proven way wrong.  Recruiting alone has made this an A+++ off season.  Once again, can't wait is the motto moving forward.

[jimbofive]

17 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

But the college game requires guards -- ballhandling and distribution guards --- and we are extremely light there.  And that is not a minor detail.  You can counter with Bishop and to me, he still needs to prove his distribution side but as some pointed out, Rick ran with three -- Mitchell, McCall and Jett.  And tome, saying that point is Goodwin is not enough.  So more work to do.

 

 

[3star_recruit]

I agree 100% with your post Clock Tower. That being said I would gladly accept a facsimile of the Larry Finch era at SLU. He went to the Dance about 50% of the time and made an Elite 8.

[brianstl]

Larry Finch missed the post season only twice in 11 seasons and one of those was his first season when Memphis was ineligible for the post season. They finished that season 26-8 and won the Metro Conference tournament.  One year Finch took a team to the Elite 8 and another year they made the Sweet Sixteen.  He underachieved for the talent he had, but he still was a successful coach.  If he had that record with the Billikens he would be the second best Billiken coach ever behind Hickey.

I would love to have the problems Memphis had with Finch.  First world basketball program problems. 

[RiseAndGrind]

12 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

Oh its exciting.   probably the most excited I've been as a billiken since lisch committed  to the billikens.   we all knew ford would up our talent and recruit well, but this has exceeded my wildest imagination   

That said, we also know that ford's reputation was a poor to mediocre at best floor and practice coach   so pardon me if I wait 2 years (won't get much insight this coming season.  thanks to  crewsplatt) to weigh in on how that looks.   

Probably the neatest thing is the local connection recruiting success.   that continues with some floor success, we will ignite this city.   

The second neatest thing I saw today was larry legend participating.  my seats are close to Larry's and I have seen it in larry hughes eyes his love of the billikens .    now we see him throwing his two cents in......that's exciting.   the best local player from St louis since 1950 tells young high school recruits to become billikens it's gonna make a mark.  plus let's not forget larry's son is coming in what 5 years?   just adds to the vision.

NOW ford needs to keep at least the talent infusion  going.   watson, ramey, young eric liddell (only a high school sophomore right now).   let's get em all.   thus far ford hasn't missed a thing and the word I get is he has worked tirelessly.   

Last thing,  I have been told our three transfers in waiting are the best players on the team by far.   so no matter what, we only have to wait one more painful year before at least being competitive again.   and if goodwin and french are the players we all are hoping for, our completely new starting five November 2017 is going to make us forget crews platt forever.   

Good to hear from you, Roy. 

I'm just going to assume Travis Ford is the Bill Billicheck of College Basketball, and he is now on his way to a hall of fame career after being fired. 

[CBFan]

1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

Could not disagree more.  I can show program after program full of talent but run by poor game coaches which resulted in disappointing results.  The Larry Finch teams at Memphis initially come to mind.  Sure, the greater the talent, the greater the chance of winning games if that is your point.  If so, long gone are the 11 win losing seasons.  At the same time, I watched Brian Conklin as a freshman and did not come away thinking he would have a great 4 years of college and a nice professional career.  But after watching him beginning his Junior year before exploding his Senior year after being well-coached and being amazed at his nearly flawless footwork and technique allowing him to have success against bigger, stronger and more talented players, I truly appreciated what RM had done and was doing.   Same with Jett who was a raw talent but absolute turnover machine his Freshman year.  Did we all see talent his Freshman year?  Of course.  Did anyone see A-10 Player of the Year?  I say no.  Because of excellent coaching by RM, Jett (along with his teammates) truly changed their games since enrolling as Freshman, improved their games significantly like Jett did his Sophomore year.  Hats off to Jett and others who then kept the hard work going, who were reminded of the teaching fundamentals by his teammates and coaches (including Jim Crews) who then had two (2) excellent years with Crews at the helm.  Crews did not have success because he coached talent players but had success because he was at the helm of a Junior/Senior led team which had already been coached up to perfection.  Crews best attribute is that he let the team continue as having been assembled and coached up by RM.  Had Crews tried to changes things, the results would not have been good.  At the same time,  we saw Crews could not teach and instruct his own recruits who did not get better each year.  Look no further than Ash Youcoubu for a top 150 player who didn't develop and meet the expectations placed upon him coming out of high school.  Would I prefer a team of guys similar to Ash over guys similar to Jolly?  Sure.  But coaching up the talent and blending the talent into a winning team is just as important.  Look no further than Quin Snyder's Missouri teams who landed highly recruited players (mostly athletic guys who played the 2,3 and 4 positions) but who where poorly coached, who did not develop, who played selfishly and therefore his teams had disappointing years.  Did they have enough talent to win more than 10 or 11 games?  Of course. 

+1 well said.

[Clock_Tower]

26 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I agree 100% with your post Clock Tower. That being said I would gladly accept a facsimile of the Larry Finch era at SLU. He went to the Dance about 50% of the time and made an Elite 8.

3 Star.  You are correct.  My dislike of Memphis is showing through!!  Probably not the best example.  Then again, Anfernee Hardaway sure hide alot of Finch's flaws!!  And yes, talent at that level will hide coaching flaws.  And you and Brian are right -- Finch's teams were highly ranked and won alot of games.  Guess that's why my memories of us beating them -- big upsets -- remain memorable.  At the same time, Larry calls a timeout with only 1 minutes left in the game, the other team having just made a big basket taking a lead and Larry Finch huddles his team up, displays a blank look and finally says "Play harder!!"  is simply priceless -- a true story from a Memphis friend of mine who had been an insider back then.

[bauman]

Will you "Ford is a bad game (now we are even having his individual practice skills being questioned) coach" guys just give it a rest.  I still can't find any REAL basis for this other than MBMs, primarily OSU fans.  That's hardly a solid foundation for the continued spewing of that cr@p on this Board, especially at a time when he has given us the most hope for Billiken basketball since the hiring of RM. Why keep feeling compelled to insert that negative in threads dealing with the great job he is doing transforming the talent level at SLU?   I guess it's just another example of "if you read it on the internet it must be true."

Let's give him, and his staff, a few years before jumping on that bandwagon. 

[Billiken Rich]

25 minutes ago, bauman said:

Will you "Ford is a bad game (now we are even having his individual practice skills being questioned) coach" guys just give it a rest.  I still can't find any REAL basis for this other than MBMs, primarily OSU fans.  That's hardly a solid foundation for the continued spewing of that cr@p on this Board, especially at a time when he has given us the most hope for Billiken basketball since the hiring of RM. Why keep feeling compelled to insert that negative in threads dealing with the great job he is doing transforming the talent level at SLU?   I guess it's just another example of "if you read it on the internet it must be true."

Let's give him, and his staff, a few years before jumping on that bandwagon. 

It's his rep, love it or not.  If he didn't have that rep, he'd be coaching elsewhere.  He's done an unbelievable job recruiting.  No one with half a brain could say anything negative about his performance at SLU to this point.  He's still got a lot to prove however.  OSU didn't fire him for over-achieving with his recruited talent......

[brianstl]

Good thing the game today is more about the Jimmys and the Joes than the X's and O'.  Which do you think is more important to Duke's success during Coach K's tenure, the plays he draws up or the 68 McDonald's All-Americans he has signed?  I will go with the 68 McDonald's All-Americans.

[slufanskip]

I doubt he recruited any better talent than KS, OU, UT ... in fact probably lower than those schools. Probably on par with Baylor, ISU, etc ...  Which would mean if he coached equal to his talent level he'd finish 4th, 5th, maybe 6th in the Big 12 which is about where he generally did finish.