Dr. P's letter

[Cowboy]

http://www.slu.edu/news/announcements/2016/september/message-from-president-pestello-sept28.php

-spot on

-well done Dr P

-if this is deemed political, mods remove it please

[Old guy]

I always liked Dr. Pestello;s thinking and pronouncements, one reason for this is that he follows what our faith says about these issues: all men and women are equal in the eyes of God and no one should vilify them for being different in some way. He has done this despite severe criticism coming from every direction and is doing it again. I fully support his point of view.

[Bobby Metzinger]

1 hour ago, Cowboy said:

http://www.slu.edu/news/announcements/2016/september/message-from-president-pestello-sept28.php

-spot on

-well done Dr P

-if this is deemed political, mods remove it please

 

Ahh, if only De Smet's statue could talk...

[cgeldmacher]

Except there's this.  As has become commonplace in our society, there is only one side that truly gets to have its say and have true freedom of speech.

[SLU_Nick]

I think Dr. P does a nice job here.  He can't afford to alienate conservative donors more than they already are.

He remains "Jesuit" but not a complete pushover like other school administrators have become.

I must have missed what West said about the Muslim Student Alliance...

 

[Bills_06]

3 minutes ago, SLU_Nick said:

I think Dr. P does a nice job here.  He can't afford to alienate conservative donors more than they already are.

He remains "Jesuit" but not a complete pushover like other school administrators have become.

I must have missed what West said about the Muslim Student Alliance...

 

I don't know the full history but on his website he wrote he was censored by a SLU professor for not allowing a flyer with the words "radical Islam" promoting him speaking and in that blog he said:

"Doggone right, I along with the YAF activists will not back down from this challenge. And if this is just a case of ill-conceived political correctness, we’ll rectify that. But, if this is a case of the influence of stealth jihad radical Islamic campus organizations such as the Muslim Student Association, an affiliate of the Muslim Brotherhood, then you will be exposed. And I recommend to the President of St. Louis University, you do not want it known that a radical Islamic organization is dictating speakers on your campus — that is not the type of PR you really want."

The bold parts were the sections the Muslim Student Association pointed out in their email yesterday explaining what happened to the student body.

[DeSmetBilliken]

This is a situation that I really don't think is being handled that well by anyone. I'll give credit to Pestello in that I have said before that I wasn't too convinced that he would allow a conservative speaker on campus in the name of academic freedom when there is opposition. I'll even add that as president of the university, he probably should stand up for his students when they are called something as serious as "jihadists". With the exception of this "context speaker" beforehand, he is doing so, so kudos to Dr. Pestello.

As a former SLU College Republican, I don't think that Allen West is a good choice as speaker. I'll admit to not being terribly familiar with his work, but as far as I'm concerned, anyone who is going to refer to the Muslim Students Association on campus as jihadists might not be the best choice to speak on college campuses, even if Mr. West has a long winded rationale for those opinions (I know; I was sent a link when I asked the event sponsor about it). Now we have the Young America's Foundation and Mr. West putting SLU on blast over safe spaces and censorship, and people will somewhat mindlessly say that it's another example of SLU and other colleges being hostile places for conservative students. To think, all or most of this could have been avoided by bringing in a better speaker.

That said, I think the professor getting to "contextualize" before Mr. West's speech is a bad move by SLU. This wasn't set up as a debate, but SLU is going to allow somebody to go up there and say why the speaker is full of it, bigoted, etc.

All in all, to me this is just an example of the problems with the extreme ends of both political ideologies. Instead of intelligent, analytical discourse, we get radical, broad platitudes from one side and calls to eradicate opposing viewpoints from the other. Everyone needs to do better.

[DeSmetBilliken]

35 minutes ago, SLU_Nick said:

 

I must have missed what West said about the Muslim Student Alliance...

 

He said they were jihadists. He bases this on some affiliation on some seemingly loose affiliation with another Muslim organization that he claims to be a terrorist organization.

[hsmith19]

1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

Except there's this.  As has become commonplace in our society, there is only one side that truly gets to have its say and have true freedom of speech.

So West decided to take his ball and go home. That's his decision. SLU is a private university and Pestello can invite, uninvite, or "contextualize" any speaker he damn well pleases. He can also allow any student protests he damn well pleases. All the carping in the world about "free speech" under the made-up Sarah Palin sense of the term won't change any of that.

I remember when Allen West was almost reasonable too. He has really gone off the rails recently. Bravo to Pestello for his handling of the situation. No great loss in my book anyway that West threw this tantrum and won't be speaking.

[hsmith19]

34 minutes ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

All in all, to me this is just an example of the problems with the extreme ends of both political ideologies. Instead of intelligent, analytical discourse, we get radical, broad platitudes from one side and calls to eradicate opposing viewpoints from the other. Everyone needs to do better.

Which side is which here? West's original comments sound pretty close to calling for Pestello to ban the Muslim Student Association from operating on campus.

As for the "contextualize" thing, I agree the term sounds a little silly, but I don't see what's so bad about setting events with controversial speakers up in more of a debate-like format. It's especially ironic to wail about free speech in a private university setting when what you're really objecting to is not your views being banned from campus, but having opposing views presented alongside yours.

[johnbj14]

I'm pretty sure West is still speaking @hsmith19

[Bobby Metzinger]

1 minute ago, hsmith19 said:

Which side is which here? West's original comments sound pretty close to calling for Pestello to ban the Muslim Student Association from operating on campus.

As for the "contextualize" thing, I agree the term sounds a little silly, but I don't see what's so bad about setting events with controversial speakers up in more of a debate-like format. It's especially ironic to wail about free speech in a private university setting when what you're really objecting to is not your views being banned from campus, but having opposing views presented alongside yours.

Can you imagine Wellesley or Smith having someone like Margaret Sanger speak, yet inviting the staunchest pro-Life advocate to "contextualize" Sanger's views before she took the stage? This is what West is arguing. Let the student body decipher and contextualize West's opinions; we're all grown-ups here. I'd like to believe all college students are intellectually mature enough to handle West or someone like Howard Dean on the left and have constructive debate. We can agree and disagree freely in this country without having to have someone spoon-feed/contextualize opposing viewpoints.

[Billboy1]

Yes he is.  Are all speakers contextualized.  What has happened to free speech. If you don't like what he's going to talk about - don't go!

[hsmith19]

10 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

Can you imagine Wellesley or Smith having someone like Margaret Sanger speak, yet inviting the staunchest pro-Life advocate to "contextualize" Sanger's views before she took the stage? This is what West is arguing. Let the student body decipher and contextualize West's opinions; we're all grown-ups here. I'd like to believe all college students are intellectually mature enough to handle West or someone like Howard Dean on the left and have constructive debate. We can agree and disagree freely in this country without having to have someone spoon-feed/contextualize opposing viewpoints.

I can't imagine Margaret Sanger being allowed to speak in the first place at a school like Hannibal-LaGrange or Greenville College. And that's their right. Fundy Protestant schools don't have to let pro-choice types speak on their campuses if they don't want to. Jesuit schools don't have to let people who want to ban the Muslim Student Association speak on their campuses if they don't want to either. But again, even though it's their right to invite or uninvite whoever they want, I really don't see what there is to whine about if any of the above schools chose to organize an event in more of a debate-style, all perspectives presented approach. That's the way both the Federalist Society and the American Constitution Society tend to organize their events at the law school.

[hsmith19]

13 minutes ago, Billboy1 said:

Yes he is.  Are all speakers contextualized.  What has happened to free speech. If you don't like what he's going to talk about - don't go!

Free speech does not have anything to do with the events a private university chooses to hold on its own campus. This is basic civics stuff. Free speech protection means the government can't tell you what to say. It doesn't force a private school to give anyone a platform for their speech.

If you don't like the events held at SLU or any other college, go to a different school.

[Billboy1]

So you're saying give the students one side of the story and control what they learn and are subjected too in the whole culture. Thought college was a learning experience to all sides.

 

[Pistol]

Dr. P.'s letter strikes the right tone. He sticks up for his students and invites the voices of all, even those he disagrees with, on campus. I'm not sure what more anyone could want. Finding the right balance and tone seems to be a real skill of his.

I was a brand-new freshman at SLU when 9/11 happened. In the first days after the event, someone chucked a brick through the big front window of the Islamic center on the western edge of campus (I lived in Marguerite Hall, two buildings over). Like the current MSA students at SLU that West has called out needlessly, they hadn't done anything wrong. That image has really stuck with me.

I guess civility is too much to ask for.

(The way the students decided to handle it, by the way, is pretty cool.)

[hsmith19]

2 minutes ago, Billboy1 said:

So you're saying give the students one side of the story and control what they learn and are subjected too in the whole culture. Thought college was a learning experience to all sides.

 

I'm saying going to a private school means you need to be okay with its mission statement and the way its administrators choose to enforce that mission statement. If you want free speech protection from the school you choose to go to, you need to choose one run by the government, of which there are many options.

But again, the stink here is that Pestello is NOT just presenting one side of the story. Instead he is evidently allowing somebody to provide some kind of an opposing viewpoint (whatever "context" means exactly) alongside West's. This is the exact opposite of presenting only one side of the story. If conservatives or anyone else wants to provide "context" for a different speaker they disagree with, maybe they should ask Pestello for the same treatment. If he declines, then feel free to call him a hypocrite.

To johnbj: I'm curious what West's dramatic "I do not consent" means exactly, if he's still going to show up to speak.

[Billboy1]

He'll be there.  Do all speakers receive a preview talk from somebody to explain what they're going to talk about.  Pretty insulting to the audience. Agree if he does not do this to other speakers he will be a hypocrite.  Has not happened in the past seem s funny to start now.

[hsmith19]

When I was at SLU Law, pretty much every time we had a high profile speaker, they were presented as part of a panel discussion presenting a variety of views. Former Governors, former Senators, Mayors, Police Chiefs, feminists, "men's rights" activists, etc. It probably would have been for the best if they had set up an event involving a figure like West in that format to begin with. His remarks about the Muslim Student group couldn't have been too shocking for anyone familiar with him.

[brianstl]

If you feel the need to contextualize a speaker's words before he even gives the speech don't even invite the guy.  They are trying to make everyone happy and instead they are just pissing off both sides.  SLU needs to have some balls here.  Either have enough balls to not let the guy on campus or have enough balls to let the guy speak just like any other speaker they would have on campus.

[hsmith19]

1 minute ago, brianstl said:

If you feel the need to contextualize a speaker's words before he even gives the speech don't even invite the guy.  They are trying to make everyone happy and instead they are just pissing off both sides.  SLU needs to have some balls here.  Either have enough balls to not let the guy on campus or have enough balls to let the guy speak just like any other speaker they would have on campus.

West and a handful of his supporters seem to be the only ones offended by Pestello's stance. I haven't heard anything about the Muslim Student group being pissed off at Pestello's response. The students quoted in the RFT and posting on FB specifically said they weren't objecting to West being allowed to speak.

[DeSmetBilliken]

37 minutes ago, hsmith19 said:

Which side is which here? West's original comments sound pretty close to calling for Pestello to ban the Muslim Student Association from operating on campus.

As for the "contextualize" thing, I agree the term sounds a little silly, but I don't see what's so bad about setting events with controversial speakers up in more of a debate-like format. It's especially ironic to wail about free speech in a private university setting when what you're really objecting to is not your views being banned from campus, but having opposing views presented alongside yours.

My intent was for West/Young America Foundation to be the radical, broad platitudes side.

Also, there's nothing wrong with a debate format, if that's how it's organized. This may seem like grasping at semantics, but if things are the same as they were 10-14 years ago when I was a student at SLU, the College Republicans are paying for this event. They had to pay for Allen West's speaking fee through the Young Anerica Foundation. That money comes out of the student organization funding they get each year. If this was a debate, you'd do it with an organization like the College Democrats, they'd pay for a speaker, and maybe you split the general fees. Probably would be a nice event. I just have a problem with making the CRs pay for the event, but sending someone up beforehand to likely criticize the speaker. Not that different from building a wall and making Mexico pay for it.

[Taj79]

A long-winded Taj story ---- 1975-76 .. living on east end of 16G.  Every freaking Saturday the chants from the Grand sidewalk in front of Busch ... "The Shah is a puppet.  Down with the Shah.  The Shah is a puppet.  Down with the Shah."  Two of those Iranians lived in G1608.   We screamed hung over "shut ups" at those guys many Saturday mornings.  All of us were gone come November 4, 1979 when the hostages were taken in Teheran.  Just an interesting snippet from the world and how it played out in a small way at SLU. 

Pestello's letter looks good.  Contextualizing is not.  Throw each side of the debate on the wall and see what sticks for you.  Do not ask a poli sci prof we know to moderate.  Draw your own adult conclusions., 

[MusicCityBilliken]

These issues never seem to end. When I arrived as a freshman in the Fall of 70 they had William Kunstler come to speak. The conservative alums went nuts. Made the front page headlines of the 2 St Louis newspapers denouncing his invite. Fr Reinert, the president at the time, gave the okay.

For those not familiar on who Kunstler is here is his wiki bio.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Kunstler