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Coach Ford on Bernie's show 8/3


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6 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

The problem with the Eagles is that they want you to take a chance on their lesser players and then they'll hype SLU up to their studs. That's why I think getting a guy like Tate was so important because he builds a different relationship with the Eagles program rather than just "if you give, I'll give"

This.

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7 hours ago, brianstl said:

This.

I agree with that. Anything that gets us an in with the Eagles and the local scene is a good thing. Ultimately we need to build those relationships up after Majerus essentially told them to buzz off and Crews and co. were completely incompetent.

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IMO the problem with the Eagles is that they want you to take a chance on their lesser players, but they never will reciprocate by pushing their studs your way.  The people in charge want to be able to claim that kids from their program went to Duke, Florida, Kansas, etc.  I truly believe they prefer their top talent to go elsewhere, while at the same time they dog SLU for not taking their lesser talent.  Sometimes I think SLU is in a lose-lose situation with the Eagles.

Maybe Tate can change things with the Eagles.

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17 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

IMO the problem with the Eagles is that they want you to take a chance on their lesser players, but they never will reciprocate by pushing their studs your way.  The people in charge want to be able to claim that kids from their program went to Duke, Florida, Kansas, etc.  I truly believe they prefer their top talent to go elsewhere, while at the same time they dog SLU for not taking their lesser talent.  Sometimes I think SLU is in a lose-lose situation with the Eagles.

Maybe Tate can change things with the Eagles.

I get the sense that the Eagles want kids to go to the perceived highest level program that they can.  That makes the Eagles look better because part of their recruiting pitch is getting kids exposure to get recognized and play high level college ball.  Right now they do not perceive SLU as a high even level program for their top talent, but see it as a good place for their lesser talents.

Ford & Co need to win consistently and make the NCAAs consistently to change that perception.  Hopefully Tate can help with that and help the Eagles recognize quickly that SLU has stepped up their game.

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15 hours ago, RUBillsFan said:

I get the sense that the Eagles want kids to go to the perceived highest level program that they can.  That makes the Eagles look better because part of their recruiting pitch is getting kids exposure to get recognized and play high level college ball.  Right now they do not perceive SLU as a high even level program for their top talent, but see it as a good place for their lesser talents.

Ford & Co need to win consistently and make the NCAAs consistently to change that perception.  Hopefully Tate can help with that and help the Eagles recognize quickly that SLU has stepped up their game.

 

Not that you, or anyone else, probably intends that ONLY the Eagles might think and/or act in this manner but I would take this a step further and say that this attitude and these alleged actions of the Eagles are actually similar to those held by the entire local/St. Louis basketball community from high schools/coaches to basketball trainers/skill developers/weight and conditioning coaches to most local players and their posses -- all have a built-in benefit/advantage to choose the highest possible "name" programs.  In this regard, SLU has many advantages with regard to the local recruits (we can attend their games, stop by to see them practice, no real travel expenses, etc. and the kids can stay home and play in front of their friends and family without them having to leave town/travel ) but it can also be tough to land the better local players because of the stigma and belief that SLU is simply not good enough for them.  Believe RM recognized this and decided to build his program with non-locals.  Once built, and once successful, then even the locals will jump on the bandwagon. Unfortunately, Crewsplatt couldn't land and/or coach up good players -- local or not. 

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3 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Not that you, or anyone else, probably intends that ONLY the Eagles might think and/or act in this manner but I would take this a step further and say that this attitude and these alleged actions of the Eagles are actually similar to those held by the entire local/St. Louis basketball community from high schools/coaches to basketball trainers/skill developers/weight and conditioning coaches to most local players and their posses -- all have a built-in benefit/advantage to choose the highest possible "name" programs.  In this regard, SLU has many advantages with regard to the local recruits (we can attend their games, stop by to see them practice, no real travel expenses, etc. and the kids can stay home and play in front of their friends and family without them having to leave town/travel ) but it can also be tough to land the better local players because of the stigma and belief that SLU is simply not good enough for them.  Believe RM recognized this and decided to build his program with non-locals.  Once built, and once successful, then even the locals will jump on the bandwagon. Unfortunately, Crewsplatt couldn't land and/or coach up good players -- local or not. 

+1 I've been saying this for years, any time the cries about SLU not recruiting the locals would start up. A lot of these critics have an agenda and it is NOT to help SLU. They want SLU to be there for the 2nd and 3rd tier local players, but not the good ones. I remember that dopey assistant from SWIC basically admitting it. One of the many things I loved about RM was that he didn't cow tow to these types.

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This is not unique to St. Louis basketball programs. I imagine this is the case everywhere, always: that people in charge of basketball programs - be it HS, AAU, strength & conditioning, camps, whatever - want their players to move on to the biggest possible name college basketball programs in order to make their programs look better. This isn't a conspiracy against SLU; it just feels like that because SLU isn't a name that brings them as much cred as other names do. If SLU were a bigger-name program, they'd be fine with their players ending up there. That's the goal, isn't it?

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32 minutes ago, Pistol said:

This is not unique to St. Louis basketball programs. I imagine this is the case everywhere, always: that people in charge of basketball programs - be it HS, AAU, strength & conditioning, camps, whatever - want their players to move on to the biggest possible name college basketball programs in order to make their programs look better. This isn't a conspiracy against SLU; it just feels like that because SLU isn't a name that brings them as much cred as other names do. If SLU were a bigger-name program, they'd be fine with their players ending up there. That's the goal, isn't it?

I certainly don't think it is unique to SLU or a conspiracy, but I just think people should recognize that the criticism of SLU by these local bball peddlers is often not valid. Too often people automatically accept the narrative, without recognizing the motivations of the critics. It's not fair to portray SLU in a bad light for not offering a scholarship to a local kid who wound up at UMKC or Austin Peay.

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36 minutes ago, Pistol said:

This is not unique to St. Louis basketball programs. I imagine this is the case everywhere, always: that people in charge of basketball programs - be it HS, AAU, strength & conditioning, camps, whatever - want their players to move on to the biggest possible name college basketball programs in order to make their programs look better. This isn't a conspiracy against SLU; it just feels like that because SLU isn't a name that brings them as much cred as other names do. If SLU were a bigger-name program, they'd be fine with their players ending up there. That's the goal, isn't it?

 

-granted we are not yet on the level of x or cinn, but do you observe the same thing happening in cincy? or are they at a level where that sort of bias isn't an issue?

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36 minutes ago, ACE said:

I certainly don't think it is unique to SLU or a conspiracy, but I just think people should recognize that the criticism of SLU by these local bball peddlers is often not valid. Too often people automatically accept the narrative, without recognizing the motivations of the critics. It's not fair to portray SLU in a bad light for not offering a scholarship to a local kid who wound up at UMKC or Austin Peay.

I understand that, and it isn't fair. But SLU isn't exactly a unique target for the dismissive attitudes of HS basketball people. Look at the cities that other A10 programs are in- there's no way local AAU coaches in Philly and NYC are pushing La Salle and Fordham if they have kids who can play in the Big East. All SLU can do is get better and make itself an attractive desination for those players, and a strong selling point ("Our graduates attended SLU!") for those kinds of influencers.

Our fan base can help by shedding the little brother attitude of "the local media is ignoring us" and "HS coaches are conspiring to send players away from us" and so forth. Our attitude should be that we want them on our side, but we'll win with or without them, and it's their loss to overlook us.

33 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-granted we are not yet on the level of x or cinn, but do you observe the same thing happening in cincy? or are they at a level where that sort of bias isn't an issue?

Having two big-time programs in the same city makes for a different environment for sure. It's also a somewhat smaller market, so the talent hasn't been quite as deep as STL's in recent years; neither Xavier nor UC have had many local kids on their rosters lately. There's also no local AAU program with the clout of the Eagles. SLU offerees Darius Bazley (Finneyton HS in the Cincy suburbs) and Justin Ahrens (Versailles HS, north of Dayton), just like Luke Kennard and the other talented Southwestern Ohio players, got plucked by King James AAU. So it's sort of the inverse of STL; the AAU teams here have less power, and the college programs are more powerful. They'd be thrilled to be sending guys to XU and UC, not trying to persuade them to go to Kentucky or Ohio State. The local AAU programs are sending guys to MAC schools, not power conferences.

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5 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Not that you, or anyone else, probably intends that ONLY the Eagles might think and/or act in this manner but I would take this a step further and say that this attitude and these alleged actions of the Eagles are actually similar to those held by the entire local/St. Louis basketball community from high schools/coaches to basketball trainers/skill developers/weight and conditioning coaches to most local players and their posses -- all have a built-in benefit/advantage to choose the highest possible "name" programs.  In this regard, SLU has many advantages with regard to the local recruits (we can attend their games, stop by to see them practice, no real travel expenses, etc. and the kids can stay home and play in front of their friends and family without them having to leave town/travel ) but it can also be tough to land the better local players because of the stigma and belief that SLU is simply not good enough for them.  Believe RM recognized this and decided to build his program with non-locals.  Once built, and once successful, then even the locals will jump on the bandwagon. Unfortunately, Crewsplatt couldn't land and/or coach up good players -- local or not. 

Under Crews/Platt that would be accurate. Ford has a difficult job (that we are very hopeful he can do) in reversing the hatchet job Jim Crews did to Saint Louis University. I don't think a kid is going to the the "pop" he wants from a college commitment when he says his school has won 11 games a season for the last couple years, and finished last in the league.

This is also how Travis Ford can create a legacy for himself and his career: cleaning up the toxic mess left for him and getting to RickMa levels in the A10.

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34 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I understand that, and it isn't fair. But SLU isn't exactly a unique target for the dismissive attitudes of HS basketball people. Look at the cities that other A10 programs are in- there's no way local AAU coaches in Philly and NYC are pushing La Salle and Fordham if they have kids who can play in the Big East. All SLU can do is get better and make itself an attractive desination for those players, and a strong selling point ("Our graduates attended SLU!") for those kinds of influencers.

Our fan base can help by shedding the little brother attitude of "the local media is ignoring us" and "HS coaches are conspiring to send players away from us" and so forth. Our attitude should be that we want them on our side, but we'll win with or without them, and it's their loss to overlook us.

Having two big-time programs in the same city makes for a different environment for sure. It's also a somewhat smaller market, so the talent hasn't been quite as deep as STL's in recent years; neither Xavier nor UC have had many local kids on their rosters lately. There's also no local AAU program with the clout of the Eagles. SLU offerees Darius Bazley (Finneyton HS in the Cincy suburbs) and Justin Ahrens (Versailles HS, north of Dayton), just like Luke Kennard and the other talented Southwestern Ohio players, got plucked by King James AAU. So it's sort of the inverse of STL; the AAU teams here have less power, and the college programs are more powerful. They'd be thrilled to be sending guys to XU and UC, not trying to persuade them to go to Kentucky or Ohio State. The local AAU programs are sending guys to MAC schools, not power conferences.

-thanks for the explanation and i agree on your first two paragraphs

-I just renewed my season tickets and this has me very much looking forward to the season which should enable some of the very recent history, that hasn't already been reduced by alcohol, to fade and also I have much higher expectations for the following season and beyond which might help knock off some of the negatives from all directions

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55 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Travis Ford is a very talented recruiter with roots in the midwest. If he isn't able to sign a top 100 local kid in the next year or three , then I'm going to assume it just isn't possible.

Or possibly in the next week.

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