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Have results improved? I'm not sure. What I do know is that teams are playing against us very differently, and we have different mindsets when we face teams like Germany, Belgium, and even Mexico. There is less of a David- Goliath mentality on our part. Teams play us as equals and less like the way they did in 94 & 02 WCs. We're shedding that underdog mindset.

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23 hours ago, wgstl said:

Yep putting in someone who has scored multiple goals for BVB at the age of 17  is a mistake

He scored two goals for Borussia Dortmund.

Wasn't even in the squad for either Bayern Munich games.

Spent the majority of his year last year with the reserves - not the first team.

He is a talent.

He is not as good as Pele at 17. He led Brazil to a WC win in Sweden.

 

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18 minutes ago, brianstl said:

How are the national youth teams perfoming?  

The U-23's failed to make the Olympics for the second time in a row, which is not good, especially after Klinsmann highlighted it as a top priority. U-20's looked pretty good last summer at the World Cup (in spite of Tab Ramos) before losing in the quarterfinal to the eventual champ on PK's. U-17's performed terribly at the WC and didn't make it out of their group last summer with Pulisic as captain, despite looking like world beaters the previous year and having quite a bit of talent - Richie Williams lost his job as coach after that, which was a long time coming.

 

Overall, we have more talent in our program than ever before, but they are spread out all over the world and haven't always come together at tournaments that well. Combined with mediocre to bad coaching, we have under-performed relative to our talent level in youth competitions for the past few years (dating back to 2011, really).

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32 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

He scored two goals for Borussia Dortmund.

Wasn't even in the squad for either Bayern Munich games.

Spent the majority of his year last year with the reserves - not the first team.

He is a talent.

He is not as good as Pele at 17. He led Brazil to a WC win in Sweden.

Reasonable comparison for any HS-aged kid.

Not as good as Pele at 17, you guys. Cut him!

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Does anyone know why Jordan Morris was left off the roster?

When you're starting the 33-year-old Wondolowski and his very limited skill set and the 21-year-old Morris isn't even on the roster, it seems to fly in the face of USMNT's mission of development. Sure, no one was counting on Wood being unavailable, but it's clearly time to move on.

(I'd almost forgive the selection if Wondo hadn't missed that brutal open net vs. Belgium. #neverforget)

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20 minutes ago, Zink said:

The U-23's failed to make the Olympics for the second time in a row, which is not good, especially after Klinsmann highlighted it as a top priority. U-20's looked pretty good last summer at the World Cup (in spite of Tab Ramos) before losing in the quarterfinal to the eventual champ on PK's. U-17's performed terribly at the WC and didn't make it out of their group last summer with Pulisic as captain, despite looking like world beaters the previous year and having quite a bit of talent - Richie Williams lost his job as coach after that, which was a long time coming.

 

Overall, we have more talent in our program than ever before, but they are spread out all over the world and haven't always come together at tournaments that well. Combined with mediocre to bad coaching, we have under-performed relative to our talent level in youth competitions for the past few years (dating back to 2011, really).

 

Thank you.

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1 hour ago, Littlebill said:

Have results improved? I'm not sure. What I do know is that teams are playing against us very differently, and we have different mindsets when we face teams like Germany, Belgium, and even Mexico. There is less of a David- Goliath mentality on our part. Teams play us as equals and less like the way they did in 94 & 02 WCs. We're shedding that underdog mindset.

I kind of disagree with this. Last year in the Confederations Cup playoff (I think they called it the CONCACAF Cup), Mexico thoroughly outplayed us and we bunkered most of the game. The final scoreline flattered our performance. Against Germany, we registered zero shots on goal and Belgium dominated the run of play - Tim Howard had to have a record breaking game in goal for us to have a shot.

 

In competitive games against these teams (and add Argentina to the mix, a game in which we had zero shots), we play more scared than ever and sat back to absorb pressure without attempting to possess, and without a threatening counter attack - we at least had the latter in such games under Arena and Bradley. We played better vs Mexico and Germany in '02 than we have in meaningful games under Klinsmann. We played better vs Spain and Brazil in '09. England in '10. Top that off with our worst loss (vs Guatemala) and lowest FIFA ranking since the 80's earlier this year and I think it's impossible to argue that Klinsmann has taken us to new heights. He's maintained our level of results while adopting an inferiority complex against strong opposition.

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19 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Does anyone know why Jordan Morris was left off the roster?

When you're starting the 33-year-old Wondolowski and his very limited skill set and the 21-year-old Morris isn't even on the roster, it seems to fly in the face of USMNT's mission of development. Sure, no one was counting on Wood being unavailable, but it's clearly time to move on.

(I'd almost forgive the selection if Wondo hadn't missed that brutal open net vs. Belgium. #neverforget)

Some say that Klinsmann was unhappy that he didn't go to Werder Bremen after Klinsmann got him a workout with them. Honestly, Morris had a rough start to the year while Wondo was on fire, although Morris has turned it up of late. Add that to Klinsmann's preference for veteran players, and there you have it. Morris would've been a perfect back-up for Wood's position. Wondo, well...

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Say what you want about Wondolowski but he has scored a TON of goals in MLS.

That has not translated into success necessarily with the USMNT.

Jordan Morris did not impress in the two game playoff against Colombia that the U-23 USMNT did not qualify for the Olympics.

Starting spots or roster spots have to be earned by the young kids.

So far that has not happened in some instances.

 

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7 hours ago, Tilkowsky said:

He scored two goals for Borussia Dortmund.

Wasn't even in the squad for either Bayern Munich games.

He is not as good as Pele at 17. He led Brazil to a WC win in Sweden.

 

TrollPants, you have posted a lot of ignorant items over the years, but this takes the cake.  Who on this board, who is this city, who in this state, who in this country, who on this planet said Pulisic is as good as Pele at age 17?  The sole purpose of your post is to criticize a very talented teenager. That is very typical of what you do.

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5 hours ago, slufanskip said:

The difference between us and the elite isn't in the development of our 15-18 year olds ... it's in our 7-12  year olds. It's a slow process as if we trained a 7 year old today he won't be 22 for 15 years.

 

Skip.  Everything I have read states the opposite.  In fact, many experts believe and write that the US is actually ahead of the International competition at the earlier ages.  It when the kids start to get older, when they get out of middle school and begin high school that the skill development slows way down.  Playing high school is alot of fun.  Great rivalries and fun to play with and against their friends... but the quality of play soon gets very diluted.  Same with college.  The entire push and changes initiated by US Soccer is not geared toward the 7 to 12 years olds but toward the 15 to 18 year olds.  

And just like with basketball, there is way too much emphasis upon traveling the country, playing other select teams in tournaments and showcases and fixating too much upon scoring/goals no matter how in order to win the games, tournament or showcase.  True development involving individual skills is not always fun or glamorous.  Staying home and working on fundamentals (the equivalent of shooting 500 FT's a day) with and among the true cream of the crop seems much more valuable.  Other countries don't have the high school/college system we do and instead are able to gather and financially support the nation's best players, beginning at ages 14, 15 and 16, who simply play and practice all day long - much in very competitive but unstructured environments.  To me, that is the key. 

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6 hours ago, Tilkowsky said:

Say what you want about Wondolowski but he has scored a TON of goals in MLS.

That has not translated into success necessarily with the USMNT.

Jordan Morris did not impress in the two game playoff against Colombia that the U-23 USMNT did not qualify for the Olympics.

Starting spots or roster spots have to be earned by the young kids.

So far that has not happened in some instances.

 

Wondo should have never been called up and he should never be called up again.  He was never international quality and never will be.  As pistol said, Morris was the perfect back up to wood.  JK clearly made a poor decision to bring Wondo instead of Morris. 

All that being said, Morris wouldn't have made much difference against Argentina since we fielded a midfield that was entirely inept.  

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3 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Skip.  Everything I have read states the opposite.  In fact, many experts believe and write that the US is actually ahead of the International competition at the earlier ages.  It when the kids start to get older, when they get out of middle school and begin high school that the skill development slows way down.  Playing high school is alot of fun.  Great rivalries and fun to play with and against their friends... but the quality of play soon gets very diluted.  Same with college.  The entire push and changes initiated by US Soccer is not geared toward the 7 to 12 years olds but toward the 15 to 18 year olds.  

And just like with basketball, there is way too much emphasis upon traveling the country, playing other select teams in tournaments and showcases and fixating too much upon scoring/goals no matter how in order to win the games, tournament or showcase.  True development involving individual skills is not always fun or glamorous.  Staying home and working on fundamentals (the equivalent of shooting 500 FT's a day) with and among the true cream of the crop seems much more valuable.  Other countries don't have the high school/college system we do and instead are able to gather and financially support the nation's best players, beginning at ages 14, 15 and 16, who simply play and practice all day long - much in very competitive but unstructured environments.  To me, that is the key. 

We may have high participation rates for youth soccer but the structure in place and strategy surrounding it is not ideal. It should continue to improve as the academies mature. Your second paragraph is spot on and even more applicable to younger kids. We need more focus on individual skills training for kids from the time they start playing at age 4 or 5. I believe many people are starting to realize this. One of the big downfalls of our country's youth soccer has been the size of the field the kids play on. Larger fields = more cop outs and room to bomb the ball when under pressure. This limits individual skill improvement. As we start to move more toward futsal-style play for youth soccer, we should begin seeing improved play across the board in the next few decades. 

The main point is that we still have a long way to go, but to say that there hasn't been improvement is completely false. This will take time. As we've already seen, you can't make yourself an international soccer powerhouse overnight. We are headed in the right direction though. 

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1 hour ago, For-DaLove said:

We may have high participation rates for youth soccer but the structure in place and strategy surrounding it is not ideal. It should continue to improve as the academies mature. Your second paragraph is spot on and even more applicable to younger kids. We need more focus on individual skills training for kids from the time they start playing at age 4 or 5. I believe many people are starting to realize this. One of the big downfalls of our country's youth soccer has been the size of the field the kids play on. Larger fields = more cop outs and room to bomb the ball when under pressure. This limits individual skill improvement. As we start to move more toward futsal-style play for youth soccer, we should begin seeing improved play across the board in the next few decades. 

The main point is that we still have a long way to go, but to say that there hasn't been improvement is completely false. This will take time. As we've already seen, you can't make yourself an international soccer powerhouse overnight. We are headed in the right direction though. 

This...

 

There has to be a cultural/paradigm shift in the way soccer is received and delivered. Agree that we are making progress and moving in the right direction; however, the European style academy-based system is really where we need to be if we want to compete on a first-tier level. 

 

Individual skill development has to start way earlier...

 

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Why is a third place game being played?  No other major sport plays a consolidation game.  Does the NFL? No, NBA? No, MLB? No. Even the NCAA eliminated their consolation game in the Dance several decades ago.  

There is very little to gain out of this upcoming game.  I certainly would advocate using players who haven't seen much action to date.  Use this as a friendly towards World Cup qualifying.  Let Howard and Horvath each play a half in goal, let Birnbaum, Castillo, Kitchen, Nagbe, Pulisic and Orozco get at least 45 minutes on the pitch.  The starters for the first four games are fried.  Getting up emotionally for this game will be tough.  Let them rest.

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14 hours ago, For-DaLove said:

We may have high participation rates for youth soccer but the structure in place and strategy surrounding it is not ideal. It should continue to improve as the academies mature. Your second paragraph is spot on and even more applicable to younger kids. We need more focus on individual skills training for kids from the time they start playing at age 4 or 5. I believe many people are starting to realize this. One of the big downfalls of our country's youth soccer has been the size of the field the kids play on. Larger fields = more cop outs and room to bomb the ball when under pressure. This limits individual skill improvement. As we start to move more toward futsal-style play for youth soccer, we should begin seeing improved play across the board in the next few decades. 

The main point is that we still have a long way to go, but to say that there hasn't been improvement is completely false. This will take time. As we've already seen, you can't make yourself an international soccer powerhouse overnight. We are headed in the right direction though. 

Well said and exactly my point. 10 year old kids in Europe and South America have more ball skills than kids 4 and 5 years older do in the states. We may well be behind in training 15-18 year olds, however until our pre teen kids begin to develop real ball skills and then grow up we will not be able to possess the ball like Argentina did to us against the best teams.

The same is true in the US for basketball. You'd be amazed at how much emphasis is put on winning. 5th grade teams playing 40 minutes of zone d or full court traps to win. No discernable skills besides the athleticism to make steals from kids just learning to handle the ball. Skills, Skills, Skills at the very youngest of ages. Fu,k the score. It's just a number that no one will remember 3 years later. Until we get that emphasis in all our youth programs we will struggle with skill development

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3 hours ago, slufanskip said:

Well said and exactly my point. 10 year old kids in Europe and South America have more ball skills than kids 4 and 5 years older do in the states. We may well be behind in training 15-18 year olds, however until our pre teen kids begin to develop real ball skills and then grow up we will not be able to possess the ball like Argentina did to us against the best teams.

The same is true in the US for basketball. You'd be amazed at how much emphasis is put on winning. 5th grade teams playing 40 minutes of zone d or full court traps to win. No discernable skills besides the athleticism to make steals from kids just learning to handle the ball. Skills, Skills, Skills at the very youngest of ages. Fu,k the score. It's just a number that no one will remember 3 years later. Until we get that emphasis in all our youth programs we will struggle with skill development

I know this is not what you mean but some might think that you may be advocating  not keeping score and giving winner trophies to all. As I said I know that is not what you mean and I get your overall point 

 

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21 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I know this is not what you mean but some might think that you may be advocating  not keeping score and giving winner trophies to all. As I said I know that is not what you mean and I get your overall point 

 

Up to probably 10 years old,  I would advocate that we play far less games. However, I don't think we can take them away as the kids want them. For soccer you could have more 5 vs 5 on a smaller field. More 3 vs 3 in basketball. I remember a few years ago hearing that the elite level soccer players were playing in excess of 50-60 games a year.  There are a lot of things you can do to promote them being competitive that still give them skill work. If you're playing the game, I'd say keep score. However, put your emphasis after the game on how the kids performed based upon their abilities rather than the score

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