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Damn, I was so looking forward to this game. I wouldn't say I expected to win, but up until I saw our starting line-up I thought we could compete. Maybe give up a couple or 3 and score 1 or 2. However, when I see we are starting 2 players that shouldn't be anywhere near a National team level pitch and Zusi who is at best a late sub who's good at set pieces ... I knew, this wouldn't be pretty. JK talked about going for it and having courage then starts Wondo and Beckerman.

Announcers in the pregame kept talking about Wondo's work rate and how he'd pressure the Argentina back line and create turnovers. All I saw was an old unskilled player jogging in the general direction of the ball and turning it over when he got it. Then committing a pretty bad foul leading to a very nice Messi goal. 

Beckerman? Enough said.

I don't know why Zardes wasn't moved up top in place of Wood. We have Nagby and Pulisic on the bench. Young yes, but why not give them the experience when you have to know that Wondo and Beckerman are completely useless. Maybe had we kept Morris rather than Wondo we'd have had a replacement for Wood up top.

Where are the great US keepers?

Never though I'd want Jermaine Jones on the field, but he had really played well until his stupidity took over. Part of this is on you Jermaine. You have to know better.

Bobby Wood, I hope you learned. You had a yellow card, you have to keep your cool. How'd it feel to sit this game?

John Brooks didn't have a great game but he did have a very nice tourney. He's developing into a must have in center defense.

 

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Skip, you are dead on. We abandoned the flexible shape that we used all tournament and replaced two of our faster players with Beckerman and Wondo. This team was set up to bunker with no chance to counter. The game was over before it began. 

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Truthfully, no lineup yesterday would have won that game for the US. Perhaps starting a bit more speed keeps it a little closer, but the fact is that Argentina was a vastly superior team and has the best player in the world, Leo Messi.

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I agree we probably had little chance if any to win, which is why JK should have done himself what he told his players to do. Have courage and go for it. He was preaching one thing and doing another.

I'm not overreacting. Once I saw the starting lineup I knew the result. If you think stating Beckerman or Wondo should never be near a National team pitch is overreacting, then we just disagree.

Overall I think we had a good tourney and saw some very good things from some young players, most notably Bobby Wood, John Brooks, DeAndre Yeldin.  Pulisic and Nagby looked like they belonged their first taste earlier in the tourney. Fabian Johnson continues to show he versatile and a force wherever you play him. In fact our entire back line looked very good most of the time. Michael Bradley's play proves he's better sitting just in front of the back four and in fact usually good in the role. Dempsey showed he's still a force.

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1 hour ago, billikenfan05 said:

 

Putting Pulisic in last night was a mistake.

he looked like a17 year old.

Lemala (from Tottenham Hotspur) ran right by him like he was standing still.

he might be good against CONCACAF opponents.

Out of his depth against Colombia/Argentina.

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1 minute ago, Tilkowsky said:

Putting Pulisic in last night was a mistake.

he looked like a17 year old.

Lemala (from Tottenham Hotspur) ran right by him like he was standing still.

he might be good against CONCACAF opponents.

Out of his depth against Colombia/Argentina.

Yep putting in someone who has scored multiple goals for BVB at the age of 17  is a mistake

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1 hour ago, johnbj14 said:

Truthfully, no lineup yesterday would have won that game for the US. Perhaps starting a bit more speed keeps it a little closer, but the fact is that Argentina was a vastly superior team and has the best player in the world, Leo Messi.

As Skip notes, winning was certainly unlikely under any circumstance. But we lost in a pretty terrible way. Coming into this game, we were 2-4 all-time vs top-ranked ELO teams. We had never lost by more than one goal. Those previous American teams were also outclassed, but played together in a way that gave us a chance. We didn't even register a shot, the first time that has happened since good records exist. Even when considering the relative ability of the opponent, this was an historically bad loss. 

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Pulisic will be something special in a few years. Him seeing the pitch was more for him than anything else. He isn't ready yet to be a force on the global stage, but he should be one day. Borussia Dortmund is one of the finest clubs in the world and his development there will be in good hands. He isn't there yet, but one day I would expect him to be something special. 

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2 hours ago, wgstl said:

Yep putting in someone who has scored multiple goals for BVB at the age of 17  is a mistake

I agree with you 100%. Putting Pulisic in was one of the few wise lineup choices made by JK.  Letting him get 45 minutes on the same pitch with the world's best players was an excellent decision.  It will pay dividends down the road.

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2 hours ago, brianstl said:

Has anyone seen Pulisic's cousin Will play?  He is supposed to join BVB program at least for a year and was involved in the national program.  Could he be the USMNT keeper of the future?

His cousin is not as good, there are better guys in his age group for the US. Keepers develop later, so it's hard to predict this young, though. 

Horvath and Hamid are the most likely to step in post-Guzan based on what we know now. 

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1 hour ago, RiseAndGrind said:

Is Gideon still projected as being good?

He had a mixed loan spell with Rangers in Scotland. It's tough to see a clear path for him to playing time at Arsenal, so it depends on how the next couple of loans go. Still has plenty of promise. 

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My usual skip-baiting ------- soccer ....... who cares?

Seriously though, I have to agree with Kornheiser's question on this one .... after all the years and all the attention and all the money to the US Soccer program, and THIS is as far as we come?  IU agree with him that for whatever reason, US soccer will never gain an equal footing with the rest of the soccer world.  But with that, does anyone really care?

 

And even I know it's not Leo, it's Lionel.

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7 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

My usual skip-baiting ------- soccer ....... who cares?

Seriously though, I have to agree with Kornheiser's question on this one .... after all the years and all the attention and all the money to the US Soccer program, and THIS is as far as we come?  IU agree with him that for whatever reason, US soccer will never gain an equal footing with the rest of the soccer world.  But with that, does anyone really care?

 

And even I know it's not Leo, it's Lionel.

You're like the guy who always brings up his ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend but says he doesn't care. Seriously, why be an ass and comment if it means so little to you? 

 

To to answer your question, we've made great strides at improving the infrastructure of soccer in the USA, but most of those changes occurred in the last 10 years. I fully expect us to take a step forward in the next two decades. It's a slow process though.

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The Wondo start was absurd, but I hated the Beckerman start because it moved Bradley out of the defensive mid role. Bradley is a dramatically different/better player when he is playing defensive mid and directing the ball forward. When he moves to an attacking mid role his lack of calmness on the ball and panicky back-passing becomes a liability. The better move is getting Nagbe in front of Bradley to connect the attack. Nagbe is about the only guy we have who is truly calm in possession in the midfield. 

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19 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Seriously though, I have to agree with Kornheiser's question on this one .... after all the years and all the attention and all the money to the US Soccer program, and THIS is as far as we come?  IU agree with him that for whatever reason, US soccer will never gain an equal footing with the rest of the soccer world.  But with that, does anyone really care?

FDL and others.  I am interested in International soccer when the players all play for their home countries whether it is World Cup, World Cup qualifiers/friendlies, Olympics or such events such as COPA, CONCAF, the Euro championships going on now, etc.  I have zero interest in whether Manchester United or Real Madrid wins or loses a game.  

No doubt that US Soccer has greatly increased in recent years.  Gone are the days when we put together a lineup of the best graduating college Seniors that year, a handful of better name Americans with prior US team and/or international experience as well as any other good player with any possible American connection such as guys born abroad on US Military bases even though they never set foot on US soil or can even speak English, guys with dual citizenship who were not chosen by their real home countries and now choose the US for a chance to play the highest level soccer b/c their Mom or Dad was a US citizen, etc.  US Soccer is now growing fans and support in the US and is no longer being supported mostly by local soccer teams/coaches and by recent immigrants and foreign speaking people living in the US.  American kids now walk the grocery and department stores wearing jerseys/shirts bearing the names Rooney, Ronaldo and Messi instead of Staubach thru Manning or MIke Schmidt/Reggie Jackson thru Pujols/Jeter. US players are now real contributors in the best soccer leagues in England, Germany and Italy as well as here in America even if professional soccer here in the US is 1 or 2 levels lower than such other places.  And yes, changes are taking place in American Soccer from kids playing according to the birth year rather than school year with more new training emphasis on foot skills, playing futsol, etc. and more regional development elite/training opportunities.. Premier club soccer is now a year round activity with kids not released to play soccer for their high schools and/or other sports.  Maybe more time is needed?  Maybe the improvements made by US Soccer have only been enough to not lose ground - but also not gain ground -on the International competition.  All I can figure is that the competition and opportunities here in the US for our kids between the ages of 15 and 18 still are simply not up to International competition and that this the time when US Soccer falls behind its International competition.

  I do welcome any thoughts on what it will take to develop an even higher level soccer athlete to compete at the highest levels in the future.

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1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

My usual skip-baiting ------- soccer ....... who cares?

Seriously though, I have to agree with Kornheiser's question on this one .... after all the years and all the attention and all the money to the US Soccer program, and THIS is as far as we come?  IU agree with him that for whatever reason, US soccer will never gain an equal footing with the rest of the soccer world.  But with that, does anyone really care?

 

And even I know it's not Leo, it's Lionel.

Best finish US has ever had at Copa America, and one of our best tournament finishes ever, when considering World Cups, Confederatios Cups, etc. 

We could have lost 7-0 (see: Mexico-Chile), and this would have still been nothing but a success. 

Agree with everything Nark pointed out on the strategy side, but some people just love to complain. Would any of our guys ever see the pitch for Argentina? 

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I don't have the time to flollow soccer like I used to, but have the results really improved from where they where in first half of the 2000's?  It seems like the USMNT program is just really treading water.  I know there are problems with the FIFA World Ranking, but the program spent most of the first half of the 2000's in the top 20 and for like 3 years they were in or just out of the top 10. Hell, they even got up to 4th early in 2006. It really ended bad for Arena at the 2006 World Cup, but I just haven't seen improving results in the dedade since.

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2 hours ago, davidnark said:

The Wondo start was absurd, but I hated the Beckerman start because it moved Bradley out of the defensive mid role. Bradley is a dramatically different/better player when he is playing defensive mid and directing the ball forward. When he moves to an attacking mid role his lack of calmness on the ball and panicky back-passing becomes a liability. The better move is getting Nagbe in front of Bradley to connect the attack. Nagbe is about the only guy we have who is truly calm in possession in the midfield. 

Dead on. I remember having arguments with people on this board regarding Bradley's ability to be an attacking mid. He's panicky and cannot turn the ball forward if there is an  opponent within 10 yards. He's very well suited for the defensive mid role. Problem for us is, so is Jermaine Jones though Jermaine did some good things going forward in the first 4 games, he still has poor touch and turns it over too often. The USA has been searching for the attacking mid for years. Claudio Reyna was probably the last real player we had at the position but even he was never an elite level player.

To be able to compete and by compete I don't just mean occasionally have a good result against the Argentina's of the world we have to develop players with better foot skills and especially first touch. It seems simplistic but watch Argentinma bring every ball immediately under control or direct it first touch to a teammate with pace and on target, We have the ball rebound 10 feet away far to often turning too many balls into 50-50 balls and reducing the time we have to make the next pass or play. The game turns into a consistent mad scramble for the ball or far too many errant passes and turnovers because we are always  rushed.

I'm sure I've shared this before but in probably 86 or 87 I played for a USAF base team and a small German town team. The base team traveled to Holland to play a Dutch team and we attended a Dutch teams youth teams practice. I really can't remember which team. They were probably 8-10 year olds. The drills the kids did were unbelievable. We took one drill back with us and our base adult team tried to do it. (and these were all guys who had played at least high school soccer, some had played some college) we were not as good as the 8-10 year old Dutch kids. The ability to bring the ball down and deliver it to a teammate under time and pressure constraints was remarkable. The difference between us and the elite isn't in the development of our 15-18 year olds ... it's in our 7-12  year olds. It's a slow process as if we trained a 7 year old today he won't be 22 for 15 years.

Anyone though who says the skills of the US players isn't getting better though just isn't paying attention.  

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