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Welcome, Javon Bess


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6 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

Figures you are too dense to recognize a correction of your ignorance.   What's your hero, crewsy, up to now that he's stolen our money and went on permanent retirement?

First of all, I don't understand your first sentence.  Please tell me what part of my ignorance you are correcting. (I'm not admitting that I'm not ignorant, but I can't see what you have corrected.  Maybe I'm too dense?)

Your last sentence is simply hatred and not worth commenting on.

What part of "I would have ... told Bartley and Roby to either give up their scholarship or transfer" doesn't highly suggest that you are in favor of running them off.

And if you can't keep this civil, please don't respond. 

 

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hoosier, i am never in favor of taking away a scholarship unless the player is a bad student and doing the job in the classroom, or they are a bad citizen and getting in trouble off the floor and outside the classroom and leading to embarrassing our program.  

 

that said, ford has already made the move to bring in another scholarshipped player that puts the billikens over the scholarship limit, so there is nothing we can do about it but comply with the ncaa rule and send a player on their way.   so regardless of my sentiments on not cutting a player, ford had to take away a scholarship.   imo, hines did more than either bartley or roby last year to earn his scholarship.   so if one has to pick a player to cut a scholarship from, it wouldnt have been hines.   hopefully i typed slow enough you could keep up.   

 

tell crewsy hello.  and yes someone that takes the program from the highest point in the history of billiken basketball to the lowest point in just a couple of years, i pretty much hate them.   you should as well.   but then again you are so crazy some think you might actually be platt himself.   your unbelieveable loyalty to crewsy makes one wonder.  

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3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

hoosier, i am never in favor of taking away a scholarship unless the player is a bad student and doing the job in the classroom, or they are a bad citizen and getting in trouble off the floor and outside the classroom and leading to embarrassing our program.  

 

that said, ford has already made the move to bring in another scholarshipped player that puts the billikens over the scholarship limit, so there is nothing we can do about it but comply with the ncaa rule and send a player on their way.   so regardless of my sentiments on not cutting a player, ford had to take away a scholarship.   imo, hines did more than either bartley or roby last year to earn his scholarship.   so if one has to pick a player to cut a scholarship from, it wouldnt have been hines.   hopefully i typed slow enough you could keep up.   

 

tell crewsy hello.  and yes someone that takes the program from the highest point in the history of billiken basketball to the lowest point in just a couple of years, i pretty much hate them.   you should as well.   but then again you are so crazy some think you might actually be platt himself.   your unbelieveable loyalty to crewsy makes one wonder.  

Roy, generally I would agree with you regarding schollies but in Hines's case, his was only a 1 year gift that always was going to be taken away this coming year who ever the coach was.  If your position is that once a schollie is given then that is it unless the kid screws up then a player like Hines would never have been given the opportunity to get one unless it is his senior year.  A walk that is given this gift would take in no matter what his year of school was - Hines is far and away better off having gotten it then not for that one year.

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9 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Roy, generally I would agree with you regarding schollies but in Hines's case, his was only a 1 year gift that always was going to be taken away this coming year who ever the coach was.  If your position is that once a schollie is given then that is it unless the kid screws up then a player like Hines would never have been given the opportunity to get one unless it is his senior year.  A walk that is given this gift would take in no matter what his year of school was - Hines is far and away better off having gotten it then not for that one year.

Most people understand that this indeed was the situation.  But some apparently would have been okay, now, if Hines had NOT been given the one year free ride - paying instead - so that his scholarship wouldn't have been 'pulled'.  I say give him the one year tuition break. 

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You are missing Roy's point entirely.

I agree with Roy in I dislike the act of cutting a player in college basketball.  I view it as a coaching mistake rather than a player's mistake.

Jolly was cut because he was the worst player.  Hines was cut from scholarship because he was originally a walk on.  Hines is not the worst player on the current roster.  Hines' performance merited a scholarship in relation to his teammates.  If we were going to cut the least talented or underachieving player it would be Gillman, Bartley, or Roby.  All three of them have a higher ceiling than Hines but lets face it, they will not realize it.

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3 hours ago, NextYearBill said:

Fun story.... Wearing a SLU shirt coming off the elevator in my apartment. Older gentleman spots my shirt and says, "hey did you hear they got Javon Bess?" I was in shock

Old Guy?

 

I had one a few weeks ago. I was doing a jog in my development, which is outside of Atlanta, in a area where they are building new homes. I had a SLU basketball dry-fit tee on. It was a Sunday, so no construction, and this older couple were scouting out the homes. Running by them he said, happy to see they hired Ford and complimented him on bringing in some nice transfers. That shocked me, most folks don't even know Saint Louis Univ exists in Atlanta or anywhere in the Southeast. So asked him, how did become a Bills fan? He said he was an alum, class of 72, and he worked at the CDC.  

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A few random thoughts.  

1.  Moderators.  Probably not a bad idea to move all of these non-Jaon Bess comments to their own thread.

2.  Sounds like I agree to disagree with some well-respected Billiken.com posters regarding our current players but do have some questions for them:

*  do you place any blame on Crews Platt for not properly coaching, teaching, developing and playing our current players in a manner for them to succeed.

*  assuming injury and poor teaching/coaching are really not to blame,why do you believe health and good teaching/coaching, combined with natural growth and development by our guys who will be JRs and SRs will not result in their being servicable players?

*   Ford has worked the players out this Spring including Hines.  If Ford wanted Hines on scholarship, he would be on scholarship  Saying Hines is better than AG is ridiculous.  They play different positions, they bring different talents, we need as much as we can until Ford's new players arrive to play the following year, and by all accounts, we have Hines plus all the others.

*  Shouldn't scholarships and Ford's time and efforts be focused on those players with greater upside rather than who stepped for Crews/Platt before the competition made adjustments?

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12 hours ago, thetorch said:

You are missing Roy's point entirely.

I agree with Roy in I dislike the act of cutting a player in college basketball.  I view it as a coaching mistake rather than a player's mistake.

Jolly was cut because he was the worst player.  Hines was cut from scholarship because he was originally a walk on.  Hines is not the worst player on the current roster.  Hines' performance merited a scholarship in relation to his teammates.  If we were going to cut the least talented or underachieving player it would be Gillman, Bartley, or Roby.  All three of them have a higher ceiling than Hines but lets face it, they will not realize it.

I don't think I am missing the point.  If you give a gift schollie for one year to a kid to be generous then why would you be liable to do so every year.  A gift is just that something you do because you want to not because you have to.  Crews/SLU decided to do something nice for Hines so now they are committed until he graduates - that makes no sense.  As far as Jolly goes, was he cut or did he decide to leave on his own or was it mutual - I don't know what the situation is - please enlighten.

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Cheese all the years I've debated our players getting cut is wrong I was constantly reminded all scholarships are only one year agreements.   You are now saying that isn't the case.   Hines was one year everyone else is committed till they graduate.   Let's all keep this in mind going forward.  Per cheese, scholarships are committed till they graduate.   

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For someone to believe that gillman, Bartley or Roby should have had their a scholly pulled instead of Hines they must believe the filling things:

1) Hines will clearly be more valuable than those three going forward. What happened the last 15 games of last year is fairly irrelevant.

2) the ability to keep all 4 players on the team means nothing. Cutting any of the other 3 means they are gone from the program. Pulling Hines scholly keeps all 4 around.

The decision made was the simple, obvious one.

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14 hours ago, thetorch said:

You are missing Roy's point entirely.

I agree with Roy in I dislike the act of cutting a player in college basketball.  I view it as a coaching mistake rather than a player's mistake.

Jolly was cut because he was the worst player.  Hines was cut from scholarship because he was originally a walk on.  Hines is not the worst player on the current roster.  Hines' performance merited a scholarship in relation to his teammates.  If we were going to cut the least talented or underachieving player it would be Gillman, Bartley, or Roby.  All three of them have a higher ceiling than Hines but lets face it, they will not realize it.

How do you know they won't realize their potential?

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5 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

Cheese all the years I've debated our players getting cut is wrong I was constantly reminded all scholarships are only one year agreements.   You are now saying that isn't the case.   Hines was one year everyone else is committed till they graduate.   Let's all keep this in mind going forward.  Per cheese, scholarships are committed till they graduate.   

I did not say this at all.  My point was that generally I prefer that a player keep their schollie if they were given one to come to SLU.  The Hines situation is totally different.

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8 hours ago, doowop said:

How do you know they won't realize their potential?

Bartley is injury prone, Gillman hasn't developed physically, and Roby has a poor work ethic among other issues.

Chances are Hines will perform better than one of these players just like he did last year. 

We should all want the best roster possible.

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6 hours ago, thetorch said:

Bartley is injury prone, Gillman hasn't developed physically, and Roby has a poor work ethic among other issues.

Chances are Hines will perform better than one of these players just like he did last year. 

We should all want the best roster possible.

But which one? If I were building out a college team for the next two seasons and had to draft 3 those 4 guys, I'd take all but Hines.

Nevermind that ford found a way to keep all 4 whereas the other "solutions" mean one of the other 3 would leave.

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