Welcome, Javon Bess

[almaman]

That sucks for Hines. schools should not be allowed to do that to players of course it's part of a giant list of things.

[davidnark]

24 minutes ago, almaman said:

That sucks for Hines. schools should not be allowed to do that to players of course it's part of a giant list of things.

Or he could be appreciative that he was a walk-on that was never promised a scholarship yet still got one for a year.

[davidnark]

On June 6, 2016 at 0:02 PM, Old guy said:

OK I will buy that, Bartley has NO ability to be the point guard and there is no reason to speculate about his injury, That is fine then. Simplifies things, then Bartley should be the first one to be let go if someone else who can play next season decides to commit. Wow! I thought we would let Neufeld or Gilmann go before getting Bartley out.

Bartley was injured last year, and it greatly affected his play. He has one of the better handles on the team and is arguably the best outside shooter. We need him next year, and he still has a chance to be a very good player by his senior year. There is no way he should be run off this team.

[DeSmetBilliken]

1 hour ago, almaman said:

That sucks for Hines. schools should not be allowed to do that to players of course it's part of a giant list of things.

Hines was given a scholarship because we had an extra one. I'd assume/hope that Crews explained to him that this might be just a one year deal. I'm pretty confident that Ford had this talk with him.

The result that would come from schools being prohibited from revoking scholarships would be that very few walk-ons would ever get elevated to scholarship status until their senior year.

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, davidnark said:

Bartley was injured last year, and it greatly affected his play. He has one of the better handles on the team and is arguably the best outside shooter. We need him next year, and he still has a chance to be a very good player by his senior year. There is no way he should be run off this team.

That is what I was posting all about until Taj came in and said he had NO ability as a point guard. I made a number of posts carrying on what Taj had said and ridiculing it. 

Yes, I agree this kid played a season while injured and in pain, he deserves respect not put downs.

[billiken_roy]

i too would have kept hines on scholarship and told bart;ey or roby they either give up their scholarship or transfer.   by year end hines was far more valuable than either of them.   but that said, all three are not good enough to be on a roster that is supposed to be top tier of the A-10.   so i wont lose sleep over it.   physically hines probably was maxing out his potential while ford likely has hope that bartley and/or roby fulfill some of their wasted talents.   after two years of plenty of chances, i say move on.  

[Taj79]

old guy -- how old are you?  Old enough to put reading comprehension way back in the rear-view mirror.  If you are going to continually misquote me and continually attributes things tome that I never said, I am going to continually correct you.

(Suggestion:  read this slowly):  I did not say Bartley "had no ability as a point guard."  What I said was "Bartley has shown no ability to date" to be THE point guard on this team. 

I actually agree with nark's sentiments regarding his shooting and our need for him in a depleted roster atmosphere; not so sure about his being one of the best handles but if true, it just shows again the depleted state of this roster. It's easy to be #1 when there are no #2s, #3s or so on. 

You've ridiculed nothing and you've certainly not disproved my point ---- the facts to date are the facts to date. 

[billikenfan05]

6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i too would have kept hines on scholarship and told bart;ey or roby they either give up their scholarship or transfer.   by year end hines was far more valuable than either of them.   but that said, all three are not good enough to be on a roster that is supposed to be top tier of the A-10.   so i wont lose sleep over it.   physically hines probably was maxing out his potential while ford likely has hope that bartley and/or roby fulfill some of their wasted talents.   after two years of plenty of chances, i say move on.  

You're high. I'm confident that Bartley will prove to be the 3pt Gunner all season as he did toward the end of last season. Roby could get lost but I believe Bartley has a role on this team.

[slufan13]

Bartley, Roby, Hines - Don't want any of them. As long as any of them have a major role on the team this year (and especially next year), we're still going to suck

[billiken_roy]

the "end of last season"  as in one game in the conference tourney?   yeah he sure showed us.  he still doesnt know how to dribble off a screen.   my gosh he should have learned that in 7th grade.   and he leads the world in fouls committed per minutes played.   but i am glad to hear he has ascended to the designated 3 point gunner.   he's probably distantly related to the curry boys  

[slufan13]

Bartley was a 32% 3 point shooter until the last 2 games of the season. I don't believe he magically got healthy after 30 games. He's too slow, can't defend, and is a streaky shooter. He's a decent passer. Best handle? Maybe...only in comparison to the rest of the roster but I certainly wouldn't call it good.

He's definitely behind Henriquez in the backcourt two years from now in terms of guards who can shoot. Next year? Who knows. I wouldn't waste my time on him, but at the same time, I'm interested to see everyone outside of a Jim Crews offense. 

[Clock_Tower]

Wow.  Two horrible years under Crews, Platt and company and now it being the offseason is still not justification to fail to see the bigger picture or the forest through the trees.  Crews and Platt were more than just bad recruiters - they were bad leaders and instructors.  They failed to relate to their players.  Their players quit on them.  No doubt the two Jims know the game of basketball -- but they are simply bad coaches.  

Again, did our roster need an upgrade of talent?  Of course.  Will any of our returning players make the Billiken Hall of Fame?  Probably not.  But too many here are failing to give the returning players even the benefit of the doubt that they were poorly coached, that the minutes they played were littered with bad line-up combinations, that they were pulled too quickly and for the wrong reasons and that they simply were not put properly in positions to succeed.

Old Guy.  Respond only to what Taj writes and not what you somehow interpret him to write.  Bartley is probably not the answer at PG, he has not shown enough to date, but he did have good moments while healthy as a Frosh and fighting with 12 others for playing time. With real coaches and a healed foot, Bartley has alot to offer.  

Roby has size, strength and the ability to play defense. Roby was impressive early on as a Frosh.  Then, the poor coaching and confidence dropped under the Jim "do it my way or the highway" Crews.  I, for one, am expecting a much improved and confident Roby.  Is he the answer at PG?   Probably not.

HInes.  Did I appreciate his efforts last year?  Sure.  But his size and footwork were soon exposed, the A10 scouted him and made adjustments and we soon discovered why he was (and now again) a walk on and not a scholarship player.  Hines is not the answer at PG.

Bishop needs to be our work horse at PG.  If he gets injured, we are in trouble.  Next year, we desperately need a PG.  I have confidence in Ford but I am very concerned that he has not yet brought in a PG and that PG's may not been his most valued position on his prior teams.

 

[The Pelican]

In classic Billikens.com fashion, we are taking a giant, gorilla dump on a great thread and throwing at each other. Why not start a new thread so we keep this one from being totally FUBAR'ed. 

[billikenfan05]

48 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Bartley, Roby, Hines - Don't want any of them. As long as any of them have a major role on the team this year (and especially next year), we're still going to suck

I didn't say major. I said he has a role. 

[slufanskip]

12 hours ago, Old guy said:

That is what I was posting all about until Taj came in and said he had NO ability as a point guard. I made a number of posts carrying on what Taj had said and ridiculing it. 

Yes, I agree this kid played a season while injured and in pain, he deserves respect not put downs.

No, Taj said he has shown no ability and explained himself again. How can you disagree? He basically said he was a good shooter who has shown he could play the 2, if he can become a better defender and cut his fouls down. Maybe he can be a good point guard, but he certainly hasn't shown it in games for the last 2 years

[HoosierPal]

15 hours ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

Hines was given a scholarship because we had an extra one. I'd assume/hope that Crews explained to him that this might be just a one year deal. I'm pretty confident that Ford had this talk with him.

The result that would come from schools being prohibited from revoking scholarships would be that very few walk-ons would ever get elevated to scholarship status until their senior year.

I don't know why posters are questioning this. Hines was given a one year deal.  Hine's family made the decision to attend, and pay in full, SLU.  He was given a one year gift, due to the scholarship not being used.  Now he is back to what his family expected and hopefully budgeted.

For uncle jack to say run off Bartley and keep Hines on schollie is a true change of colors for him.  When Majerus ran off players, he was livid in.  Now, it's okay.  Wow.  

[billiken_roy]

11 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I don't know why posters are questioning this. Hines was given a one year deal.  Hine's family made the decision to attend, and pay in full, SLU.  He was given a one year gift, due to the scholarship not being used.  Now he is back to what his family expected and hopefully budgeted.

For uncle jack to say run off Bartley and keep Hines on schollie is a true change of colors for him.  When Majerus ran off players, he was livid in.  Now, it's okay.  Wow.  

No Where Did I Say Run Off Bartley.   I said I considered Hines a better player than Bartley or Roby and if a scholarship is to be taken away Hines should be ahead of them.  

 Once again you have shown your idiocy.   You should go follow your idol crews into retirement.   

[wgstl]

The only issue I have with the HInes/Bartley scenario is Hines has reached his potential. You know what you're gonna get from him and its not much.  At this point in time he may be better than MB, but Marcus' potential is so, so much higher. 

[ACE]

While neither Roby and Bartley project as star players, the hate is strange and over the top. Compare the numbers of Sloan and Meyer their first two years (two well respected players by many on this board) to the numbers of Roby and Bartley. Improvement can happen, particularly with Bartley, who I think has more upside than Roby. Bartley has a chance to be the starting 2 next year with Ash gone. We can figure Henriquez will pass him by the following year, but if Bartley shows improvement next year, he can settle in as a valuable 6th man as a senior the following season. Bartley and Roby were willing to stick it out through a bad situation and try to end their career on a positive note, so I think they deserve support. They can still be valuable role players as seniors on what could shape up to be a pretty good team.

[CBFan]

17 hours ago, ACE said:

While neither Roby and Bartley project as star players, the hate is strange and over the top. Compare the numbers of Sloan and Meyer their first two years (two well respected players by many on this board) to the numbers of Roby and Bartley. Improvement can happen, particularly with Bartley, who I think has more upside than Roby. Bartley has a chance to be the starting 2 next year with Ash gone. We can figure Henriquez will pass him by the following year, but if Bartley shows improvement next year, he can settle in as a valuable 6th man as a senior the following season. Bartley and Roby were willing to stick it out through a bad situation and try to end their career on a positive note, so I think they deserve support. They can still be valuable role players as seniors on what could shape up to be a pretty good team.

+1, well said.

[HoosierPal]

On 6/9/2016 at 8:02 AM, billiken_roy said:

i too would have kept hines on scholarship and told bart;ey or roby they either give upe thir scholarship or transfer.   by year end hines was far more valuable than either of them.   but that said, all three are not good enough to be on a roster that is supposed to be top tier of the A-10.   after two years of plenty of chances, i say move on.  

Sure sounds like you are in favor or running off Bartley, uncle jack.  And Roby for that matter. 

Apology accepted.

[billiken_roy]

Figures you are too dense to recognize a correction of your ignorance.   What's your hero, crewsy, up to now that he's stolen our money and went on permanent retirement?

[Old guy]

On 6/6/2016 at 11:34 AM, Taj79 said:

I don't care if its a soft tissue injury or broken bone with complicated displaced fracture .... regardless of whatever, Bartley has shown NO ability to be the point guard to date. Speculating on imaginary hospital conversations is ridiculous when the evidence on the court says the kid is not a point guard. Sure, on rare occasions he sure can shoot the three and I'll concede that. Same with Reynolds. Same with Bishop. Not so much the same with Roby as Roby is nowhere near being the point even Bartley and Reynolds were as far as ball handlers was concerned. Hines can't shoot (but does) and is too small to make the good pass. None of these (or a combination thereof) instill confidence in me that they would handle even token pressure from the likes of VCU and others, let alone distribute as a true point should. Maybe that complication gave rise to the maddening insistence Yarbrough had to play point forward. So I'll be watching for those developments as the season wears on. As they try out for bench role players in their next few years here. Ford needs to score a point for next year big time.

Let me paraphrase what you are saying here, you are saying that the payers in last season's team were lacking ability and that you do not care if they were injured or not. Good stuff there, spoken with true leadership. So far we only have 2 new players plus one player that was redshirted last year and has not yet played in D1. The rest are the residual players of last year's team, what you call a "Crewsplatt" team, which are, as you say see below, a very unworthy group of players, only 1 or 2 of which may be worth a bench player's role in a proper Div 1 team.

On 6/8/2016 at 7:43 PM, Taj79 said:

And just to be clear, I am not advocating any guy be the next man out  but given what I have seen in the three plus years of Crewsplatt recruiting, I am not certain any one of those recruits, except maybe one or two, is worthy of anything more than a bench player's role on a real Division 1 college basketball team.  Which no one can assume Crewsplatt even came close to leaving us with.

Next year is all about waiting for the transfer to come eligible and seeing what, if any, improvement Ford can coax from the returnees,  The cupboard is about as bare as the Food King shelves in the "Animal House" finale.

So, as a team we are and have been crap since 2014-15 when the "Crewsplatt" machine took over. Unless Ford can, by some miraculous incantation, coax something out of the remaining players from last year, none of the players deserve respect for what they have done or attempted to do despite the coaching dearth they had to live with and despite the injuries they had to play with, and are just warming up seats until the happy time comes when they are replaced by someone else. This is a very cute and empathic summation of the returning players in our team according to your posts above, which reveals a great deal of circuitous and disclamatory thinking, otherwise known as CYA.

My, my, my, such a destructive manner to describe a bunch of kids who have done all they could despite significant obstacles (poor coaching, injuries, divisive attitudes, erratic player replacements during games), and now have the happy role to be "coaxed" by Ford to become decent enough while they wait to be replaced as soon as possible. This, in a nutshell, is a parable of the real working world. Congratulations, you may have bested both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump in describing what is wrong with our country. 

 

[Box and Won]

Javon Bess is officially a Billiken!

http://www.slubillikens.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=27200&ATCLID=211011090

[Taj79]

Well there's your problem old guy -- #1) you are not right and #2) you have no right paraphrasing what I said.  I said what I said, go with it.  Paraphrasing is a form of manipulation and you are only recrafting something to make it better fit your preconceived or contrived platform.   Injury or not, Marcus' work to date has not offered one hint that he is a capable point guard going forward.  His body of work to date is lacking.  Further, if you are asking is that what I think about the whole team and their ability, then I'd say yeah ---- their talent seems to be drastically overrated by a Crewsplatt hierarchy that apparently could not evaluate talent, could not recruit talent and most importantly could not blend said diverse talent into a cohesive operating framework of a team.  As for speaking with some sort of contrived leadership thanks for installing this cloak on me but I don't want it.  Back to back 11 win seasons seem to stand in shining testament to the glory and grandness this Crewsplatt dumpster fire truly was.  Sorry, there are no politically-correct participation trophies being handed out here.  Put your big old-guy panties on.  Every kid on this active roster to makes dramatic improvements for us to even come close to 11 wins next year (unless every OOC game is at home with a 300+ RPI team).

The bodybag our program finds itself in is a result of a collection of bad decisions that started with Crewsplatt's take over of the program. My argument would be and has been that this began its inevitable downslide when he assumed the interim tag.  In all three of his signing classes, restricted or not, he's got one decent player and that was Crawford.  And Mike's a role player at best. 

This is nothing personal.  If I were an athlete of any sort, I would not read the papers, watch Sportscenter, read web pages, tweet, or anything.  I am certain every one of the young men on our team is likely the poster boy for gentlemanly behavior.  A kid I'd want my daughters dating.  The player evaluation is based on results to date.  I don't need to cover my ass as its my opinion and I'm just a message board moron.