Welcome, Javon Bess

[Taj79]

Campbell and his five-star rating is completely suspect in my book. I doubt he even sees court time.

[HoosierPal]

Campbell and his five-star rating is completely suspect in my book. I doubt he even sees court time.

I read he can dribble and dunk left handed.

[Old guy]

Sorry guys, senior moment, the guy that will be playing next season for the bills is Johnson (3 stars), not Campbell. Campbell will not see any court time with the Bills next year.

[slu72]

Who the hell's Campbell?

[MusicCityBilliken]

Who the hell's Campbell?

I just had to check the official roster to see if TF slipped in another one.

I didn't see any Campbell.

[brianstl]

You have to be a member of the premium section of Billikens.com to get the scoop on Campbell.

[billikenbill]

We're playing Campbell next year? Home or away?

[Old guy]

I am glad to be providing some amusement for all of you, Campbell is a figment of my imagination.

[bonwich]

You have to be a member of the premium section of Billikens.com to get the scoop on Campbell.

Or the OBC, of which Old guy is clearly an ex officio member.

[Old guy]

OBC bonwich?

[MusicCityBilliken]

We're playing Campbell next year? Home or away?

Its a buy game. Campbell will be paying us.

[slufanskip]

OBC bonwich?

Old Boys Club. We meet in a smoke filled basement, smoke cigars and drink expensive whiskey. Maybe we will vote on including you, but you will have to bring the cigars and whiskey to your first meeting. Keep it quiet though, its kinda hush hush.

[Clock_Tower]

Disagree with you Taj, Bartley is experienced but, as we saw last season, could not perform the way he was expected to last season because of his soft tissue injury. Likewise his performance this year will depend upon how well recovered he is from his injury. Seeing that we may well have only 10 players in active play this year, Bartley, as well as Crawford, will be playing a heavier load of minutes, which favors reactivation of their injuries. This is not a macho or attitude issue; they payed last year despite having significant pain and will probably continue doing so this year. This coming season, as it was last season, it will not be a matter of "where is Bartley's 3 point shot?" or "he is not playing like in his freshman year", it is a matter of having an actual physical impediment to play. These kids deserve recognition for what they did for the team last season and what they will continue doing for the team next season. Realistically, the odds are not good that their injuries will remain in remission given the level of play they will be facing with a reduced roster of active players. So, if they play poorly, or not up to expectation next year, it will not be for lack of excuses, it will be because they have a physical impediment that keeps their performance low.

And Bishop, Roby and Agbeko cannot carry the team on their shoulders without Bartley and Crawford fully contributing. I do not expect much from Gillmann or Neufeld for next season. Indeed, I really believe that the fate of the team this coming year will depend on whatever Welmer, Moore, and Campbell can contribute. I hope it is a great year for these last three. We will see.

This has nothing at all to do with Ford, who I think is doing a very good job as a coach so far.

I didnt realize that soft tissue injuries never heal and are career ending injuries. Talk about pessimism...

[CBFan]

thanks to kshoe for pointing out what I said about no point guard which he said was my always optimistic nature .... just as optimisticc as his brother SShoe's note of the same in post 1221 of the "2017 recruiting thread" immediately seconded by slu13 in post 1222 of same thread.

Ford is doing a great job as far as I'm concerned. But the talent level left behind by Crewsplatt was woefully weak. I don't care how much of an upgrade of talent one goes because without one point guard (and two as pointed out by 13) to properly distribute the ball, you are screwed. College ball is a guard's game, we've heard that before. Ergo my joke reference to Yarbrough. Proof? The best Billiken runs of all time included the one noted trio of Waldman, Hmark and Glaggett with H the true point. The other best run of Billiken history included three point guards in Mitchell, McCall and Jett. Is this position now filled by Bartley and Bishop going forward? I don't know and I don't think so but I do know if nothing else, we need more.

That will be one observation point for this coming season ---- how Bartley and Bishop actually play. Both have been baptized by fire. There is no excuse for them this year ---nothing should be new to either.

I am hoping that the remaining scholarships for 2017 are filled with point guards otherwise I will be concerned too.

[Old guy]

Clock these injuries may or may not be career ending injuries but certainly they will impose limitations on what they can do as players.

The truth about soft tissue injury healing in that it is dependent upon the level of exertion and stress that will be required from the injured tissue after recovery. Healing and even total healing generally indicates they can do the full range of common daily activities. However a basketball player in competition play has to engage in pretty extraordinary levels of activity and stress, way beyond the level of the common activities of daily living. The injury may reactivate during play, and the more stress and more play the player is required to do the more likely the reactivation may occur.

I know of a lady that had a total hip replacement and asked her Dr. what she could do after discharge from the hospital (just a few days after surgery). The Dr. answered "anything you normally do." Well this woman did yoga two days later and dislocated her hip prosthesis, which never ever healed properly and which led to all kinds of legal issues. Yes, soft tissue injury will heal in time, and will allow you to do normal daily living activities. No, that does not include competitive basketball playing in an understaffed team. If this is what you, the player with the "healed" injury, have to do, then it will not be reasonable to expect this particular player will perform at the top of his capability during the season, and it may be expected that this player may be sidelined at times. Does this sound pessimistic to you? it does not sound pessimistic to me in the least.

Healing is not a binary system of 0 and 1 like in the computers, a patient is never healed or disabled. The whole issue of healing after injury and surgery or recovery is function and limitation of function complicated by recurrence of the injury when the patient overdoes things.

If you doubt this, talk to your golfing buddies and see how many of them know of people that had knee or hip replacements and went back to play too early after surgery. How many of them made it? The same applies to soft tissue injury but is more subtle than hip or knee replacement and generally recurrent issues are better tolerated by the patient until it becomes too late to do much about it.

Remember that these kids look at their ability to play as their ticket to some better place to be (their families may do so as well). They are not going to let some nagging pain destroy their chances, they will play with pain or no pain until they cannot.

[almaman]

Clock these injuries may or may not be career ending injuries but certainly they will impose limitations on what they can do as players.

The truth about soft tissue injury healing in that it is dependent upon the level of exertion and stress that will be required from the injured tissue after recovery. Healing and even total healing generally indicates they can do the full range of common daily activities. However a basketball player in competition play has to engage in pretty extraordinary levels of activity and stress, way beyond the level of the common activities of daily living. The injury may reactivate during play, and the more stress and more play the player is required to do the more likely the reactivation may occur.

I know of a lady that had a total hip replacement and asked her Dr. what she could do after discharge from the hospital (just a few days after surgery). The Dr. answered "anything you normally do." Well this woman did yoga two days later and dislocated her hip prosthesis, which never ever healed properly and which led to all kinds of legal issues. Yes, soft tissue injury will heal in time, and will allow you to do normal daily living activities. No, that does not include competitive basketball playing in an understaffed team. If this is what you, the player with the "healed" injury, have to do, then it will not be reasonable to expect this particular player will perform at the top of his capability during the season, and it may be expected that this player may be sidelined at times. Does this sound pessimistic to you? it does not sound pessimistic to me in the least.

Healing is not a binary system of 0 and 1 like in the computers, a patient is never healed or disabled. The whole issue of healing after injury and surgery or recovery is function and limitation of function complicated by recurrence of the injury when the patient overdoes things.

If you doubt this, talk to your golfing buddies and see how many of them know of people that had knee or hip replacements and went back to play too early after surgery. How many of them made it? The same applies to soft tissue injury but is more subtle than hip or knee replacement and generally recurrent issues are better tolerated by the patient until it becomes too late to do much about it.

Remember that these kids look at their ability to play as their ticket to some better place to be (their families may do so as well). They are not going to let some nagging pain destroy their chances, they will play with pain or no pain until they cannot.

Guess she should have gotten a second opinion.

[Old guy]

The problem here was that something was lost on translation, the Dr. did not understand what she meant, or worse he did not realize what the phrase "normal activities" meant for her, and she did not explain in detail. Besides, she got the answer she wanted to get from the Dr. She did not feel the need for a second opinion or for providing a detailed explanation of what she would be doing in Yoga with her hips. I think most Drs will not understand the level of stress that is required to play competitive basketball or how this very uncommon level of stress will affect a "healed" injury.

[Taj79]

I don't care if its a soft tissue injury or broken bone with complicated displaced fracture .... regardless of whatever, Bartley has shown NO ability to be the point guard to date. Speculating on imaginary hospital conversations is ridiculous when the evidence on the court says the kid is not a point guard. Sure, on rare occasions he sure can shoot the three and I'll concede that. Same with Reynolds. Same with Bishop. Not so much the same with Roby as Roby is nowhere near being the point even Bartley and Reynolds were as far as ball handlers was concerned. Hines can't shoot (but does) and is too small to make the good pass. None of these (or a combination thereof) instill confidence in me that they would handle even token pressure from the likes of VCU and others, let alone distribute as a true point should. Maybe that complication gave rise to the maddening insistence Yarbrough had to play point forward. So I'll be watching for those developments as the season wears on. As they try out for bench role players in their next few years here. Ford needs to score a point for next year big time.

[Old guy]

OK I will buy that, Bartley has NO ability to be the point guard and there is no reason to speculate about his injury, That is fine then. Simplifies things, then Bartley should be the first one to be let go if someone else who can play next season decides to commit. Wow! I thought we would let Neufeld or Gilmann go before getting Bartley out.

[slufan13]

You would assume Hines goes back to walk-on status, but I guess it's not a guarantee. If we do land a JUCO as rumored, someone is gone. Wonder who.

 

[slufan13]

8 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

You would assume Hines goes back to walk-on status, but I guess it's not a guarantee. If we do land a JUCO as rumored, someone is gone. Wonder who.

 

 

 

 

[Taj79]

old guy:  I did not say Bartley "Has NO ability to be the point guard."  What I said was "Bartley has shown no ability" as such to date.  That simple misstatement on your part changes the whole meaning of the premise.  Could he be a Division 1 true point guard?  Maybe, I don't know.  But based on his body of work so  far, the jury is wy outon him being that guy. 

 

So maybe he stays as a shooting guard.  But no matter, he doesn't learn how to play defense and what position won't matter once he hits his fourth foul in two minutes played.

[Old guy]

OK Taj, getting meaning out of what you say is like interpreting the bible. So now, Bartley may have under some conditions some limited abilities as a point guard, assuming he develops properly under expert coaching. You do not know if he can be a Div 1 point guard or not, so far so good so far I assume. I think I am interpreting your comments faithfully so far. You also say that his prior body of work, as a competitive player, kind of indicates he cannot be such a guy, meaning a point guard, but again you are not saying anything to the contrary either. This is great!.

Then you indicate he may stay as a shooting guard, but you qualify this statement by saying he needs to learn to play defense first, and then that it really does not matter much because he is prone to make 4 fouls in 2 minutes of play which makes him a non playable player, if I follow your logic. 

All in all you seem to stick, despite disclaimers to the contrary, on your view that Bartley is a pretty awful player, at least for Div 1. So, I think you are confirming that he probably should be the next player to be let go, ahead of Neufeld and Gilmann, ne's ce pas? Where is the error in this logic coming our of your descriptions of Bartley's abilities?

[Taj79]

Old guy:  my meaning was clear --- to date,none of his court work has demonstrated a propensity for his being a point guard.  

In 32 games this year Marcus went for 40 assists or 1.3 apg.  Last year, his freshman year, he went for 32 more games with 55 assists for an average of 1.7 apg.  Collectively, that is 1.49 apg for two years.  Those are the numbers for his body of work.  Hard stats aside, speaking from an anecdotal point of view, he has not demonstrated the ability to break any sort of pressure with his dribble and has seemed to avoid pressure dribble at all costs; additionally, and many may agree and attest to this, he has a terrible habit of #1) picking up his dribble just passing half court, and #2) his use of screens has been somewhat criminal in the Majerus attention to detail mantra.

To say he has NO ability would be ridiculous; all one has to do is replay the most recent Billiken win in the PIG game in Brooklyn where he shot 7-for-8 from three and scored a career-best 24 points,but a game where he recorded one assist.  But that, sir, harkens more to a shooting guard than a point guard.  Of course, the next night, in a well-deserved start, he went 2-for-6 overall but did record three assist in that loss.  On the season, he shot 39% from three, after a freshman year where we all saw great hope after he shot 43% from long distance as well.  Given these numbers,even i would not say he has NO ability as you surmised/misquoted me as doing.  Maybe what I am saying is why put a square peg in a round hole?   .And  there is also the fact that players just get better by being in the system and practicing every day, in other words just get better with age, as one of my fans likes to point out. Next season will be quite a crossroads in the young man's collegiate career.   And I hope he does well ---- relying soley on Bishop, Hines and Roby appears just as fruitless where I stand.

And just to be clear, I am not advocating any guy be the next man out  but given what I have seen in the three plus years of Crewsplatt recruiting, I am not certain any one of those recruits, except maybe one or two, is worthy of anything more than a bench player's role on a real Division 1 college basketball team.  Which no one can assume Crewsplatt even came close to leaving us with.

Next year is all about waiting for the transfer to come eligible and seeing what, if any, improvement Ford can coax from the returnees,  The cupboard is about as bare as the Food King shelves in the "Animal House" finale.

 

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[Box and Won]

I'm pumped about Javon Bess, you guys.