slufan13 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Which is why the next coach needs to have a track record of building a program. This program is destroyed right now. I don't think you can take a chance on an assistant coach who has know track record. There on no parts for the next coach to build upon. The job is a complete rebuild now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Happy birthday to Rick Majerus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJumpUp Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Which is why the next coach needs to have a track record of building a program. This program is destroyed right now. I don't think you can take a chance on an assistant coach who has know track record. There on no parts for the next coach to build upon. The job is a complete rebuild now. SLU has made the NCAA Tournament 9 total times, 3 of those 9 trips came with the team Majerus built. Finding a diamond in the rough or an up and coming assistant is not the answer, just as sticking with Crews is not the answer. If we want a successful program, we need a proven coach, a big name. Majerus proved that. His big name brought a program to the Tournament 3 times in 7 Seasons. This is the same program who had only seen the NCAA Tournament 6 times over the previous 60+ years of the Tournament. SLU now knows what a successful program means financially to the school, because of a big name>>> Majerus. They need to put up the money for a guy with a big name, maybe even overpay to get him on board. They know a big time coach will bring a great return on their investment. LAVIN is SLU's answer!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 OK I get what people are saying but the problem is I do not think that the school will pay 2.5 million for that guy - we only paid RM 1 million and yes I know that times have changed but still we do not have an unlimited budget even after angels step in and buy out Crews. Look at programs that we aspire to be like - Butler, X, Dayton - never thought I would say that, Gonzaga, VCU - yes I know they paid Shaka but not until he went to a final 4, they all went with affordable assistants who had big upsides. Yes they have been promoting from with in but we don't have that core of young coaches to do that with and no do not tell me about Cheney - talk about an unproven record. I am just trying to be realistic here and focus on what is doable. Get a good assistant to step up or a head coach with a proven track record from a successful school in a lower conference and invest the difference into the program - pay for good assistants and upgrade the perks for the program/players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 OK I get what people are saying but the problem is I do not think that the school will pay 2.5 million for that guy - we only paid RM 1 million and yes I know that times have changed but still we do not have an unlimited budget even after angels step in and buy out Crews. Look at programs that we aspire to be like - Butler, X, Dayton - never thought I would say that, Gonzaga, VCU - yes I know they paid Shaka but not until he went to a final 4, they all went with affordable assistants who had big upsides. Yes they have been promoting from with in but we don't have that core of young coaches to do that with and no do not tell me about Cheney - talk about an unproven record. I am just trying to be realistic here and focus on what is doable. Get a good assistant to step up or a head coach with a proven track record from a successful school in a lower conference and invest the difference into the program - pay for good assistants and upgrade the perks for the program/players. This is where I am at. I really like Dambrot at Akron and Russell Turner at UC Irvine. Both have built strong programs where they did not exist before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 272 RPI, 298 on kenpom last year. Until the very last day it looked like we might fall out of the top 300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 The best. He was a great ambassador for the university - not only had the national media connections, was also willing to be a guest on just about every two-bit local radio station promoting the school - from the education, to the band to the cheerleaders who I believe he referred to as the "Blue Angels." The "situation" robbed him of a 4th team that would have made the Big Dance, but he deserves big time credit for guiding the program through that debacle. He could have easily bailed at that point, he didn't need the money or the headache. He stayed and laid the foundation for what was to follow the next three years. If there is a positive about the current mess it is that the next coach will not have to follow a legend - which is typically difficult to do. The success wasn't that long ago - it show that you can be a ranked team at SLU and make some noise on the national level. Also, if the job was good enough for RM, it should be good enough to attract a quality coach. I was initially of the belief that the current problem is 99% recruiting... I now believe a decent part of the problem has also been coaching (failure to establish an identity and develop players). Too many players have either regressed or remained stagnant. Don't get me wrong, this is not a talented roster, but it should not be THIS bad. A better coach could work with a few guys like JB, DR, MY and MN and start to get better results. But the real key long term will be recruiting. We can count on some departures, so the new coach should have some scholarships to use in the spring. Hopefully the Prez/May/Chaifetz and whoever else is involved need to understand the importance of timing. Don't let this thing drag out like happened in the Biondi era. The NCAA selection show is Sunday, March 13. It seems a lot of programs either announce firings that night or the next day. That should allow plenty of time to get a new coach in place by end of March, which in turn would give the new coach the chance to immediately start recruiting for the spring signing period which typically begins in mid-April. Yes, not a lot of time to recruit, but any decent coach has good connections and brings with them assistants with good connections and contrary to what is often repeated on this board, there are some good players floating around in the spring, especially transfers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 It's not a talented roster, and its best player will be gone next year. If Yarbrough leaves too (which some people on here seem to be hoping for) we might be lucky to win a single A10 game next year, even assuming a new coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 It's not a talented roster, and its best player will be gone next year. If Yarbrough leaves too (which some people on here seem to be hoping for) we might be lucky to win a single A10 game next year, even assuming a new coach. Well we won a couple without Yarbrough. But I agree, this is not a talented roster and the only thing saying otherwise is blind optimism. The only way I see marked improvement next year is if a new coach runs off half the roster and brings in a couple immediately eligible guys and some talented freshmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 We're going to be bad again in 2016-2017, no matter what. Even if we improve a little from a coach finding lightning in a bottle with a few immediately-eligible players, we're talking about a roster that needs a complete overhaul, a new system that needs to be implemented, and so forth. It takes a lot more time to create a winning program than a losing one. We've learned that in a major way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 We're going to be bad again in 2016-2017, no matter what. Even if we improve a little from a coach finding lightning in a bottle with a few immediately-eligible players, we're talking about a roster that needs a complete overhaul, a new system that needs to be implemented, and so forth. It takes a lot more time to create a winning program than a losing one. We've learned that in a major way. -very likely next year will also be painful, but the attitude about the program, at least on here, will do about a 180 with a new coach and staff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 -very likely next year will also be painful, but the attitude about the program, at least on here, will do about a 180 with a new coach and staff For sure. As long as we see a foundation being laid, we'll accept losses in the short term. If by some chance Crews returns, this program will be in the worst shape imaginable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 We're going to be bad again in 2016-2017, no matter what. Even if we improve a little from a coach finding lightning in a bottle with a few immediately-eligible players, we're talking about a roster that needs a complete overhaul, a new system that needs to be implemented, and so forth. It takes a lot more time to create a winning program than a losing one. We've learned that in a major way. I agree - next year will be no much better except maybe we can see improvement. As far as running all these players off - you still have to field a team so you can not run 6 off - a couple OK. The spring signing period will be difficult for the new coach to get traction - look at RM's spring - yes I know he signed after the contact period was over but still it won't be easy unless the guy has people to bring with him who were going to sign with him but then if they already signed they have to get their release and that may not be easy - remember the center and WIU - we eventually lost him to KY. This fall signing period is the first best real period and the new coach should be off and running after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBFan Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 For sure. As long as we see a foundation being laid, we'll accept losses in the short term. If by some chance Crews returns, this program will be in the worst shape imaginable. My that is scary, if coach Crews comes back, there were only a couple of fans on the last game GDT and I would be the only one left. With a new coach I just want competitive games, Chaifetz becomes a tough place to win a game, and player improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Well we won a couple without Yarbrough. But I agree, this is not a talented roster and the only thing saying otherwise is blind optimism. The only way I see marked improvement next year is if a new coach runs off half the roster and brings in a couple immediately eligible guys and some talented freshmen. I mention Yarbrough not because he's any good now, but because he's the only guy I can imagine as a potential Ash replacement under a new coach. Depending on what the schedule is like, I can see giving Grawer's win total his last year a run for its money, even under a new coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papal Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Money talks-ie Stan Krankey (Kronke) and the NFL; Who will shell out the dollars necessary to land a big time coach? What coaches are available? Anyone who likes the Jesuits? Don't think Lavin would be the answer. Doubt Seth Greenberg would fill the bill. Shaka Smart's and Brad Steven's are hard to find. I guess candidates will surface as soon as season ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Next year won't be much better given the current roster minus expected transfers. The new guy is gonna need a minimum of 3 years to make us respectable again, unless he can get some JUCOs and transfers in at SLU in his 2nd year. Even Calipari couldn't turn this mess around in year one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 A better coach could immediately make things more respectable next year. Things can change from one year to the next. Look at what Hinson has done this year at Methdale. He lost a bunch of players and didn't add much from a bad team last year and is now having a nice season. I'm realistic about the lack of talent on this roster, but it should not be THIS bad. I think several of these players would benefit from a fresh start with a new coach. By improvement, I'm just saying get around the 150-175 rpi level (as a point of comparison UMass and GMason are at this level this season). At least that begins the turnaround. New coaches can and have landed decent recruits in the spring. For example, I believe I read that Spoon signed Waldman just a few weeks after he was hired by SLU. In college basketball, the right coach can change things around pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 A better coach could immediately make things more respectable next year. Things can change from one year to the next. Look at what Hinson has done this year at Methdale. He lost a bunch of players and didn't add much from a bad team last year and is now having a nice season. I'm realistic about the lack of talent on this roster, but it should not be THIS bad. I think several of these players would benefit from a fresh start with a new coach. By improvement, I'm just saying get around the 150-175 rpi level (as a point of comparison UMass and GMason are at this level this season). At least that begins the turnaround. New coaches can and have landed decent recruits in the spring. For example, I believe I read that Spoon signed Waldman just a few weeks after he was hired by SLU. In college basketball, the right coach can change things around pretty quickly. Isn't this Hinson's 3rd or 4th year? Waldman had to sit a year and do you think there is a Clagget or Highmark on the roster now? - maybe Bishop? after that you name them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Isn't this Hinson's 3rd or 4th year? Waldman had to sit a year and do you think there is a Clagget or Highmark on the roster now? - maybe Bishop? after that you name them.The point isn't to find exactly similar situations but rather to show that sharp turnarounds can and do happen when the right coach is in place and you get a few breaks.Spoon took us from 5 wins to the NCAA tourney in 2 years. Siuc was supposed to be horrible this year, yet here they are as the one local school having a good season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 If we can crawl into the top 200 of kenpom, that'd be pretty good improvement. Anything more than that is very unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 The point isn't to find exactly similar situations but rather to show that sharp turnarounds can and do happen when the right coach is in place and you get a few breaks. Spoon took us from 5 wins to the NCAA tourney in 2 years. Siuc was supposed to be horrible this year, yet here they are as the one local school having a good season. They had Anthony Beane to build around and brought in that little freshman point guard. Not saying a new coach couldn't make a similar turnaround here; I just think it's going to be epically tough doing it unless you blow up this roster. For the sake of guys like Crawford/Agbeko/Reynolds/Roby I would love to see them have at least one decent season here. Considering when they signed, they have to be just as disappointed in the trainwreck as any fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Isn't this Hinson's 3rd or 4th year? Waldman had to sit a year and do you think there is a Clagget or Highmark on the roster now? - maybe Bishop? after that you name them. Correct about Hinson, but the point is improvement from one year to the next can happen, even without an influx of talent. But if you rather have an example of a team that has improved from one season to the next following a coaching change without a major influx of talent, look no further than GMason. They were 223 rpi last year - now at 155 this season. That's the type of incremental improvement I'm talking about with better coaching. BTW, we are currently at 201 in the rpi. If Bishop continues to develop and MY is put in a more suitable role, the modest goal of getting around 150 (yes, sad that is now a goal) is not out of the question for the 2016-17 season. Yes, Waldman had to sit out a year and I would be thrilled if our new coach could land a similar impact transfer to help for 2017-18 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 A better coach could immediately make things more respectable next year. Things can change from one year to the next. Look at what Hinson has done this year at Methdale. He lost a bunch of players and didn't add much from a bad team last year and is now having a nice season. I'm realistic about the lack of talent on this roster, but it should not be THIS bad. I think several of these players would benefit from a fresh start with a new coach. By improvement, I'm just saying get around the 150-175 rpi level (as a point of comparison UMass and GMason are at this level this season). At least that begins the turnaround. New coaches can and have landed decent recruits in the spring. For example, I believe I read that Spoon signed Waldman just a few weeks after he was hired by SLU. In college basketball, the right coach can change things around pretty quickly. Spoon also signed Donnie Dobbs shortly after hired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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