bonwich Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 I don't get the "fans weren't there when we won" comments at all. The chaifetz was packed (9k plus) for nearly every conference game during that 3 year run. The fans were there when we won and will be back when we start winning again. It's that simple. We have a fairly small arena in a large market where we're the only* D-1 team. During that 3-year run, we sold out only 12 times and had more than 9,500 only 13 times. That says that there's something more to it than "just win, baby." As for the 20-wins-every-year thing, 6 of the 14 A-10 teams had 20 wins last year. I could make a case that says that means we should be happy with 20 wins 6 or 7 years out of 10. I'm definitely not saying, however, that the performance this year is anywhere near acceptable or that we don't need a new coach. *Only real D-1 team at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 St. Louis fans, based on experience and consort with them, have always loved one team -- the baseball Cardinals. No questions asked. All the others have peaked and vallied because they seem to have more fair-weather fans who will ride the winner. I've long believed that and have said it before and been bashed for it. Yes, there are Blues fans and Rams fans and (old) Steamer fans and yes they were passionate and devoted, but when 50k show up to watch the last place Cardinals battle the last place Cubs in late September, well, that speaks volumes. This narrative gets repeated a lot but has two huge problems. 1) The Cardinals almost never suck. They've finished in last place exactly once in the last 98 years, and only once in the past 56 years have they had back to back losing seasons. 2) On the rare occasions when they do suck on the field, the attendance does decline significantly. They went from top of the heap to middle of the pack during the Torre years, which were not nearly as bad as people tend to paint them in hindsight. How would St. Louis sports fans react if a basketball team was that consistently good? All academic, since it's never happened. But the Cardinals' uniqueness is more a product of how rarely they suck than any kind of consistent loyalty from fans when they do suck. The Rams drew when they won. The Blues draw when they win. The Billikens drew when they had a nationally ranked team. I've never bought the idea that there is anything all that unique about St. Louis sports fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Lost in the attendance quagmire is the location of our arena. SLU has never played on campus regularly in modern times. Lots of people have never stepped foot on SLU's campus who would go to our games. Average Joe Sports fans don't know where Chaifetz is and unfortunately don't know the logistics of getting to the venue, where to park, what metro stop is near it etc etc. We make fun of MB73's complaints about a long walk but it is real especially to people who have never been down there. Getting fans to go to Chaifetz is completely different than getting them to go to the checkerdome or downtown. I believe with winning and familiarity it will get better. I've lamented the lack of attendance but I understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Lost in the attendance quagmire is the location of our arena. SLU has never played on campus regularly in modern times. Lots of people have never stepped foot on SLU's campus who would go to our games. Average Joe Sports fans don't know where Chaifetz is and unfortunately don't know the logistics of getting to the venue, where to park, what metro stop is near it etc etc. We make fun of MB73's complaints about a long walk but it is real especially to people who have never been down there. Getting fans to go to Chaifetz is completely different than getting them to go to the checkerdome or downtown. If this is true in the age of smartphones, in-dash GPS, and countless other means to find your way around, people are even dumber than I thought. If you can't find parking near an arena in the middle of a city dotted with surface lots and a street grid lined with meters and next to a parking garage, you should have your driver's license revoked permanently. The "Where am I supposed to park?" whining is reserved for the most moronic of morons, those that take up two spots and then waddle into Walmart and complain when they have to park more than 50 feet from the door of Golden Corral. These people exist, I'm told, though I've never spoken to one, and they are the worst. I have trouble conceiving of a human adult who could be too stupid to find parking near Chaifetz. If this is an excuse people make, then I don't even want them to come to the game. I want them to do us a favor and jump off a bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Chaifetz is barely two miles down the road from Scottrade. The Midtown area might be slightly more off the beaten path for the average fan than Downtown West, but it's not a far enough distance for me to believe it makes a huge difference. If anything, you get slightly less of the "I'll get stabbed, mugged, and raped" sentiment from a certain demographic because it's no longer downtown. And Midtown is just as if not more centrally located than Oakland and Hampton. The parking silliness is really a separate issue. Chaifetz has across the street options at Harris-Stowe just like Scottrade and Busch do, and a hell of a lot more options for free on the street parking if you're so inclined, not to mention the golf carts from the Olive garage. People who whine about things like parking are going to find an excuse not to come regardless. People have and will continue to complain about the parking options downtown, in spite of having enough spaces to host World Series, Stanley Cup, and NFL playoff games all at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If this is true in the age of smartphones, in-dash GPS, and countless other means to find your way around, people are even dumber than I thought. If you can't find parking near an arena in the middle of a city dotted with surface lots and a street grid lined with meters and next to a parking garage, you should have your driver's license revoked permanently. The "Where am I supposed to park?" whining is reserved for the most moronic of morons, those that take up two spots and then waddle into Walmart and complain when they have to park more than 50 feet from the door of Golden Corral. These people exist, I'm told, though I've never spoken to one, and they are the worst. I have trouble conceiving of a human adult who could be too stupid to find parking near Chaifetz. If this is an excuse people make, then I don't even want them to come to the game. I want them to do us a favor and jump off a bridge. Midtown isn't a destination. Yeah they have Pappy's but it isn't a hot neighborhood or have any destination spots. Where can I walk to before or after a SLU game reasonably? No where. Mid town and the SLU campus just aren't places that people go to. It isn't just Billikens basketball, Chaifetz as a venue isn't selling out shows or concerts at all. If it was a public venue like the family arena there would be articles in the paper saying how unsuccessful it has been. It is a shame but I don't think Chaifetz as a venue has been exposed to most St. Louisans, especially considering how great it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Midtown isn't a destination. Yeah they have Pappy's but it isn't a hot neighborhood or have any destination spots. Where can I walk to before or after a SLU game reasonably? No where. Mid town and the SLU campus just aren't places that people go to. It isn't just Billikens basketball, Chaifetz as a venue isn't selling out shows or concerts at all. If it was a public venue like the family arena there would be articles in the paper saying how unsuccessful it has been. It is a shame but I don't think Chaifetz as a venue has been exposed to most St. Louisans, especially considering how great it is. Not a destination? Seriously? In addition to a major university, Midtown has the Fox (St. Louis' main live theatre destination), Powell Hall, the Moolah, the Contemporary Art Museum, Urban Chestnut, Moto Museum, the Sheldon, Grandel, International Photography Museum, KDHK, Plush, Fubar, the Firebird, Hotel Ignacio, Small Batch, at least a dozen restaurants and other bars and clubs - hell, even Dante's is still kicking. Chaifetz itself - despite your claim of poor ticket sales - continues to book major events more than once a week: http://www.thechaifetzarena.com/upcomingevents/ In fact, Midtown is probably more of a destination than all but a few city neighborhoods in terms of sheer number of outside visitors. Your claim is baffling. If you can't walk to these places before or after a SLU game, it's because of physical impediment or lack of trying/desire, not for lack of options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 In fact, since I moved away from STL before the 2012-2013 season, I haven't been to a SLU game where I haven't gone somewhere within walking distance before or after the game. Urban Chestnut, Six Row (RIP), Pappy's, The Good Pie (RIP), Vito's, etc. When I did live in STL, I'd park somewhere on the street 10 minutes before tip and usually be heading to my seat when they started the national anthem. It's a really easy, convenient, well-located place relative to other arenas. Dayton's arena is surrounded by a parking lot and no longer offers visitor parking. You have to park across the river at a hotel and take a shuttle to the arena. So you have to leave really, really early if you don't have a season parking pass. Xavier's arena doesn't have much within walking distance. Getting better, but just not a well-developed area. SLU has it so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Six Row (RIP) BTW, I stopped in at Pappo's (the former Six Row) for a few drinks after the Duquesne game. They've hired Six Row's brewer and had eight of their own beers on tap in addition to a bunch of other beers. Didn't try the pizza, but it looked good. The look and layout are basically the same, although they've added booths along the walls and spruced up the bar area a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 BTW, I stopped in at Pappo's (the former Six Row) for a few drinks after the Duquesne game. They've hired Six Row's brewer and had eight of their own beers on tap in addition to a bunch of other beers. Didn't try the pizza, but it looked good. The look and layout are basically the same, although they've added booths along the walls and spruced up the bar area a bit. I've never been to a Pappo's, so that's good to hear. A lot of people are saying it should be an upgrade food-wise for sure, and that the beer is good too. Six Row's beer was fine but I never got the idea it was that well managed. They never made much effort to connect with a tight STL beer community. Which is a shame. The beer was good, and they were nice enough people. Glad to hear that it's a good, logical fit for that space. I'll be sure to hit it next time I'm in town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 hell, even Dante's is still kicking. Wow, I didn't realize Dante's was still around, nice run for them (didn't it open when we were underclassmen at SLU?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Attendance? It needs to be said, some real reasons: overall, county people have the money to go to games, not city people, it is a long drive for casual fans and their children (and we ain't The Cardinals, and it is a winter sport, cold weather, during the school year as opposed to The Cardinals) it is a war zone, safety is an issue, let's face it, take your woman, your kids down there? Not as well protected as The Blues parking isn't that good for some, the bars are a bit far to go to before the game then walk to the game and back... leave your car, "where"? no name recognition teams on the home schedule, Wichita State and VCU, the rest are ???; even teams like Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Florida, Mississippi, Georgia, though maybe not top notch, have name recognition (we needed to get into the Big East, though that time may have passed) no regional rivalries on the home schedule, so 1) less local fan interest and 2) no regional fans of our opponents come to fill seats fans are more and more disenchanted with the character issues, the kind of "student athletes" in basketball (and football), even just the last 10 years it as worsened, and the fact that other school can load up with players who clearly could not be admitted and / or succeed academically at SLU no local players, the modern era days of Highmark, Claggett, Lisch, Liddell, were such a plus for fan identity, they were local town warriors we had a great run with HOF coach Rick Majerus, middle-of-the-road curious fans attended, but his miracles are behind us, so on top of everything else, as we re-tool with our young players, casual fans do not want to see a sub .500 team 40+ years, The SL Post treats us like sh*t, carefully finesses us with intent (had to put that in here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Attendance? It needs to be said, some real reasons: overall, county people have the money to go to games, not city people, it is a long drive for casual fans and their children (and we ain't The Cardinals, and it is a winter sport, cold weather, during the school year as opposed to The Cardinals) it is a war zone, safety is an issue, let's face it, take your woman, your kids down there? Not as well protected as the Blues, either parking isn't that good for some, the bars are a bit far to go to before the game then walk to the game and back... leave your car, "where"? no name recognition teams on the home schedule, Wichita State and VCU, the rest are ???; even teams like Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Florida, Mississippi, Georgia, though maybe not top notch, have name recognition (we needed to get into the Big East, though that time may have passed) no regional rivalries on the home schedule, so 1) less local fan interest and 2) no regional fans of our opponents come to fill seats fans are more and more disenchanted with the character issues, the kind of "student athletes" in basketball (and football), even just the last 10 years it as worsened, and the fact that other school can load up with players who clearly could not be admitted and / or succeed academically at SLU no local players, the modern era days of Highmark, Claggett, Lisch, Liddell, were such a plus for fan identity, they were local town warriors we had a great run with HOF coach Rick Majerus, middle-of-the-road curious fans attended, but his miracles are behind us, so on top of everything else, as we re-tool with our young players, casual fans do not want to see a sub .500 team 40+ years, The SL Post treats us like sh*t, carefully finesses us with intent (had to put that in here) The dog whistles coming off your post are abundant and extremely high-pitched. This is too much ignorance to address at once on a Friday afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Attendance? It needs to be said, some real reasons: Tickets are like $12 and lately SLU has been practically giving tickets away. However, it is a long drive for casual fans and their children to watch Jim Crews crash the program Campus security and Chaifetz security are everywhere. However, I wouldn't feel safe having my children watch Jim Crews crash the program The talent isn't that good for some, the bars are a bit far to go to go get passed out drunk after watching Jim Crews crash the program... leave your car, "where" after you pass out a bar for the night? no name recognition teams on the home schedule, Wichita State and VCU, the rest are going to beat us anyway; even teams like Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Florida, Mississippi, Georgia, though maybe not top notch would destroy a Jim Crews coached team, have name recognition (we could have gotten into the Big East, though Jim Crews crashed the program) no regional rivalries on the home schedule, so 1) less reason to watch Jim Crews crash the program 2) no reason for opposing fans to come watch them blow SLU out fans don't want to watch hot-headed Jim Crews shove his bone-headed players like Brett Jolly for once against doing something stupid. selfish players like Yarbrough don't appeal to fans who want to see good, winning basketball. no local player that means anything would come play for a Jim Crews coached team. Crews also refused to recruit local players such as Jordan Barnes. we had a great run with HOF coach Rick Majerus, middle-of-the-road curious fans attended, but his miracles are behind us, so now nobody wants to come watch Jim Crews crash the program 30+ years Crews has been a mediocre coach. FIFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastBilliken Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 FIFY +1100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 fans are more and more disenchanted with the character issues, the kind of "student athletes" in basketball (and football), even just the last 10 years it as worsened As is evidenced by the lack of interest and money being made in college athletics as compared to 10 years ago (prior to power conferences having their own networks)..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Midtown isn't a destination. Yeah they have Pappy's but it isn't a hot neighborhood or have any destination spots. Where can I walk to before or after a SLU game reasonably? No where. Mid town and the SLU campus just aren't places that people go to. It isn't just Billikens basketball, Chaifetz as a venue isn't selling out shows or concerts at all. If it was a public venue like the family arena there would be articles in the paper saying how unsuccessful it has been. It is a shame but I don't think Chaifetz as a venue has been exposed to most St. Louisans, especially considering how great it is. Pappy's, Southern, The Fountain, Small Batch. All awesome and within reasonable walking distance. Lack of stuff to do in Midtown is not among our problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 overall, county people have the money to go to games, not city people, it is a long drive for casual fans and their children (and we ain't The Cardinals, and it is a winter sport, cold weather, during the school year as opposed to The Cardinals) Where in the County do you propose playing the games? Maybe SLU could switch its affiliation to Presbyterian and play at the new Westminster Christian Academy gym? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 <p> Attendance? It needs to be said, some real reasons: overall, county people have the money to go to games, not city people, it is a long drive for casual fans and their children (and we ain't The Cardinals, and it is a winter sport, cold weather, during the school year as opposed to The Cardinals) it is a war zone, safety is an issue, let's face it, take your woman, your kids down there? Not as well protected as The Blues parking isn't that good for some, the bars are a bit far to go to before the game then walk to the game and back... leave your car, "where"? no name recognition teams on the home schedule, Wichita State and VCU, the rest are ???; even teams like Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Florida, Mississippi, Georgia, though maybe not top notch, have name recognition (we needed to get into the Big East, though that time may have passed) no regional rivalries on the home schedule, so 1) less local fan interest and 2) no regional fans of our opponents come to fill seats fans are more and more disenchanted with the character issues, the kind of "student athletes" in basketball (and football), even just the last 10 years it as worsened, and the fact that other school can load up with players who clearly could not be admitted and / or succeed academically at SLU no local players, the modern era days of Highmark, Claggett, Lisch, Liddell, were such a plus for fan identity, they were local town warriors we had a great run with HOF coach Rick Majerus, middle-of-the-road curious fans attended, but his miracles are behind us, so on top of everything else, as we re-tool with our young players, casual fans do not want to see a sub .500 team 40+ years, The SL Post treats us like sh*t, carefully finesses us with intent (had to put that in here) You sound like Stan Kroenke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 FIFY Well done, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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