HoosierPal Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Spoon inherited a great nucleus from Grawer. He road Highmark and Claggett to three great years. So those great teams all have an asterik? If your statement works for Crews, it works for Spoon (and Romar and Sodie) too. Just looking for a consistent approach here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Spoon added great players to that roster. In my opinion, the most important player on those teams was H and Spoon got him. What great player has Crews brought to the program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenboy Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Boy...sad discussion for sure. Lets just see how it goes. Go Billikens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Spoon added great players to that roster. In my opinion, the most important player on those teams was H and Spoon got him. What great player has Crews brought to the program? Milik Yarbrough, 9th best Freshman scoring total in all of SLU history. Tied with Kevin Lisch. Ninth best Frosh rebounder, sandwiched between Winfield and Willie Reed. Good enough? Or do you have to be 8th or higher to be on your list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 We all need to take a deep breath and chill. I, like many others on the board, am very negative about this team's prospects. For the most part I'm basing this on what I watched all last year. Do I hope they've made major strides over the summer? Hell yes! But, sadly, I won't buy it until I see it. Go 10-2 in the OOC sched, and we may be out of the woods. As weak as it is, this is not unreasonable to expect if we're any good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Look it is easy to say wait and see before judging. The problem with that is that we are coming off a pretty dismal performance last year. We saw little improvement throughout the year and in fact the play could actually be said to have gotten worse at the end. MY got a lot of playing time that in normal years he would not have seen anything close to that but he did generally make the best of his situation so good for him but even he tailed off once the other team targeted him because nobody could take the lead and thus take some pressure off him. We can debate the quality of the coaching performance of JC last year but I think the record and overall poor rankings of its play speaks for itself. This year JC has no excuses, he either gets real improvement or he needs to go. Will the school do that I have no idea but they better start thinking about how to proceed now just in case. '72, as far as the national scrutiny if we had not hired JC goes, that would have been just noise that would have passed in a day or so. Nobody would even remember who JC was once the new coach had been hired. If May let that influence him then he is not the one who should be leading the AD. You still have to do the right thing not the easiest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Milik Yarbrough, 9th best Freshman scoring total in all of SLU history. Tied with Kevin Lisch. Ninth best Frosh rebounder, sandwiched between Winfield and Willie Reed. Good enough? Or do you have to be 8th or higher to be on your list? Milik has a long way to go before he ever approaches bringing to the table what players like H and Dobbs did. A long way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billfan78 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Can't we just wait 6 weeks to see how the current squad looks before all of this negativity (I understand it, but don't think we need to dwell on it since we are a few weeks from the start of the season)? Maybe the team has improved (young guys growing) and will surprise or maybe not, but lets just give them a chance before getting too depressed. I agree. It seems the same 5 or 6 posters dwell on how our team or our coach is in every thread. Any positive post, like HoosierPal's post above, is quickly shot down. If you look at many threads they become circle jerks between these 5 or 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Milik has a long way to go before he ever approaches bringing to the table what players like H and Dobbs did. A long way. Last I knew, Milik was a freshman last year and thereby only has one year of numbers to look at. Hard to compare his freshman numbers with seniors. He is already "at the table" with Lisch, Liddell, McCall and Reed. Tell me how their freshman totals outweigh Milik's freshman totals when they are basically the same. I fail to see why you are criticizing Milik's freshman accomplishments which are among the school's all time best, and ignoring the fact that Crews brought him in. If I follow your lead, we have had only 7 great freshmen ever in this program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Last I knew, Milik was a freshman last year and thereby only has one year of numbers to look at. Hard to compare his freshman numbers with seniors. He is already "at the table" with Lisch, Liddell, McCall and Reed. Tell me how their freshman totals outweigh Milik's freshman totals when they are basically the same. I fail to see why you are criticizing Milik's freshman accomplishments which are among the school's all time best, and ignoring the fact that Crews brought him in. If I follow your lead, we have had only 7 great freshmen ever in this program.I don't want to trash Milik, but he put up his counting total numbers on an awful team, against a terrible schedule and in a 32 game season. Milik has a chance to be fine player. That said, his freshman season in proper context was not one of the top Billiken freshman seasons ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I don't want to trash Milik, but he put up his counting total numbers on an awful team, against a terrible schedule and in a 32 game season. Milik has a chance to be fine player. That said, his freshman season in proper context was not one of the top Billiken freshman seasons ever. I'm guessing most prominent SLU freshmen outside of Hughes were on bad teams, which required them to play a lot of minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I'm guessing most prominent SLU freshman outside of Hughes were on bad teams, which required them to play a lot of minutes. Douglass and Gray had an 18-12 record as freshmen. Bonner went 25-10. Baniak went 22-11. Mitchell, Reed and Conklin went 18-14. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Crews - 3 years, .653 winning percentage, 66-35 overall SLU record Majerus - 5 years, .579 %, 95-69 Spoon - 7 years, .575 %, 122-90 Romar - 3 years, .537 %, 51-44 Sodie - 5 years, .519%, 80-74 Eddie Hickey ain't coming back. Is Ron Coleman still alive? Let's get him back so he can improve on his 7 win, 0.259 win % season. What does past performance have anything to do with the current state of our roster. Crews has won at a high percentage thus far in his time at SLU. Great. He will not win anywhere close to that percentage this season. I hope for development and improvement. What you cannot deny is that this roster is the least talented SLU roster since the early grawer days. Spouting off past achievements does nothing to change that fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Douglass and Gray had an 18-12 record as freshmen. Bonner went 25-10. Baniak went 22-11. Mitchell, Reed and Conklin went 18-14. Well, sh1t, you just had to go and bring up some facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Band Legend Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Douglass and Gray had an 18-12 record as freshmen. Bonner went 25-10. Baniak went 22-11. Mitchell, Reed and Conklin went 18-14. Highmark and Claggett went 5-23 as freshmen. The other two gems of that recruiting class, Julian Winfield and Ryan Grant, were both lost, one to transfer and the other to injury. In Spoon's first year we went 12-17 and it wasn't until late in the season that we started showing some real potential. I'm not saying we're going to be great or anything, but anyone can manipulate statistics to make a point. It's probably time to declare a moratorium on trashing everything billikens basketball until we go see the kids play. The season can't get here quick enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Highmark and Claggett went 5-23 as freshmen. The other two gems of that recruiting class, Julian Winfield and Ryan Grant, were both lost, one to transfer and the other to injury. In Spoon's first year we went 12-17 and it wasn't until late in the season that we started showing some real potential. I'm not saying we're going to be great or anything, but anyone can manipulate statistics to make a point. It's probably time to declare a moratorium on trashing everything billikens basketball until we go see the kids play. The season can't get here quick enough! Brian likes to pick and chose stats that back up his weak supposition of Crews not brining in any great players. He will ignore what you have posted. He also seems to already know what our record will be for the upcoming season. Amazing talents the young lad has. You can discount Highmark and Claggett's freshmen totals, because, well because Brian says so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Brian likes to pick and chose stats that back up his weak supposition of Crews not brining in any great players. He will ignore what you have posted. He also seems to already know what our record will be for the upcoming season. Amazing talents the young lad has. You can discount Highmark and Claggett's freshmen totals, because, well because Brian says so. +1 Brian. Good or bad comparison is another issue but last year's Frosh have been compared to our Class of 2014 (JJ, MM, RL and DE) which went 12-19 in their first year after getting more time than they should have because of The Situation. So again, what is your point? Malik's stats should be discounted because our team was bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 What does past performance have anything to do with the current state of our roster. Crews has won at a high percentage thus far in his time at SLU. Great. He will not win anywhere close to that percentage this season. I hope for development and improvement. What you cannot deny is that this roster is the least talented SLU roster since the early grawer days. Spouting off past achievements does nothing to change that fact. Torch. You are insane if you really think our talent level now equals the early Grawer days. I watched those teams and I watched last year's team. In short, you are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 If you take away the Claggett and Highmark years, Spoon was a .500 coach at SLU. I really don't think you want to go here. 3star. I appreciate your posts and contributions to this Board. If I am correct, you are too young to have lived through the Grawer and Spoon transition so here's some perspective. Spoon deserves full credit for "recruiting" or re-recruiting both Claggs and Highmark who were beyond frustrated after the horrible 5-23 season which saw Robinson, Skinner, Irvin, etc. quit the team and who where all but gone from SLU. Both came to SLU, in large part, as a package deal with their AAU friends which fell apart. Grant had injuries and never played again, Bickel left for UMSL, Grawer left, Winfield left with his Dad to MIzzou and Claggs was ready to go to N. Iowa and Highmark was talking seriously with Norm Stewart. The cupboard was beyond bare and the only thing we had going for us was that Highmark and Claggs would have had to sit out a year -- but which they were both prepared to do. Both had been recruited by Spoon while he was then at SMS and it was Spoon who got them to change their minds and stay at SLU; Spoon then brought in H, alot of JUCO's and St. Louisans who transferred back home: Evan Pederson and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Brian likes to pick and chose stats that back up his weak supposition of Crews not brining in any great players. He will ignore what you have posted. He also seems to already know what our record will be for the upcoming season. Amazing talents the young lad has. You can discount Highmark and Claggett's freshmen totals, because, well because Brian says so. I wasn't picking and choosing stats. You started this whole thing by picking a stat to back up Crews. Crews had nothing to do with building the teams that resulted in his gaudy winning percentage so far here. Spoon and Majerus had major roles in building their rosters. So far Crews has done nothing to deserve mention with them. Where did I ever say to discount Highmark's are Clagg's freshman totals? They put their numbers up against a tough schedule and in a 28 game season. That schedule was tougher than anything we have played since we left the old CUSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I could point to just as many things about Crews' career stats that say he shouldn't be here than as I could to say he should be here. I have low expectations but I do see the potential for a decent season. Im always for discussuon no matter what time of year but let's hope there are some intelligent posts during the season. This offseason has been brutal. And HoosierPal, I usually like all your posts but an offseason of ridiculous posts by both sides of the Crews fence has started to bubble over seasoned frustration. Nevermind, at this rate we are going to continue with these completely unintelligent arguments throughout the whole season no matter what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I don't think Crews is a great gameday coach, but that isn't the big problem with the program. To be a really good team you have to have a lot of really good players or at least one truly great player surrounded by some good players. Spoon wouldn't have won with just Highmark and Clagg's. He had to bring in H and Dobbs. Brad couldn't win big with just Tommy and Kevin. It isn't about the x's and the o's. It is all about the Jimmys and the Joes. You need talent to be a consistent top 50 program and you need a lot of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 It isn't about the x's and the o's. It is all about the Jimmys and the Joes. You need talent to be a consistent top 50 program and you need a lot of it. I believe SLU does have talent on the roster but lacks experience and seasoning. By no means is the talent level of the 2015-16 Billikens squad the worst in 25 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenboy Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I guess time will tell what the Bills will accomplish this season. I expect we will be wrong as usual. No way this season is like or worse than last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 No way this season is like or worse than last. I have no idea what to predict with this team, but I don't see that as being outside the realm of possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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