Recruiting - 2018 class

[JMM28]

8 minutes ago, brianstl said:

They lost by 17.

 

[SShoe]

12 minutes ago, brianstl said:

They lost by 17.

It was close most of the game, but BBE had a really bad stretch late in the 2nd half.  

I came away very impressed with Thatch.  For a stretch there, he single-handedly got BBE back into the game.  Nearly all of his points were from offensive rebounds and putbacks though.  His jump shot was not on display, but the form looked pretty good in the one 3 he took.  I don't see him being like Jordair or Miles Reynolds in that regard.

 

[Pistol]

Team Takeover really ran away from BBE in the second half. It was a tighter game for the first 30 minutes, maybe more. Basically the same thing that happened against Team Takeover in the Peach Jam, but with a bigger disparity in the end.

[TheChosenOne]

I watched most of the game and @Pistol pretty well hits all of my thoughts from the game. Thatch is the type of player I really like, yet probably downgrade as a recruit due to some obvious limitations (I am starting to realize I focus too much on what a kid can't do instead of what he can do). But, I really like the kid and love his fit on our roster. A poor man's Jordan Goodwin at this point in his career. I will take my chances with kids who compete like he does.

Hellems is going to be interesting for me to follow over the next 5 years regardless of where he ends up for the mere fact that I have watched him dozens of times throughout his high school career (still one more season to go) and thought he wasn't a high major player and then after a weekend had to change that opinion (kid killed it). I think for him it ultimately comes down to whether or not he is hitting from the perimeter because he has to be more of that wing forward type where his deficiencies are not exposed and he is not a mismatch if he is not making shots from there (a below average athlete at this level, so needs defenders to respect that shot). Not a good player comparison, but I think he has to play how Kim English did his senior season where his lack of foot speed isn't a disadvantage against forwards on either end and then just battle his tail off defending and rebounding in the paint.

[doowop]

11 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

I hope the 14 teams that offered him in a 48 hour period are having second thoughts .  Hellems would be a great fit for the A10.  6'7 inside/outside players, even ones with streaky jump shots, do well in this conference.

I think his performance this weekend will give SLU a better chance of signing him.  Some coaches may have second thoughts about offering him now, maybe.

[RiseAndGrind]

1 hour ago, TheChosenOne said:

I watched most of the game and @Pistol pretty well hits all of my thoughts from the game. Thatch is the type of player I really like, yet probably downgrade as a recruit due to some obvious limitations (I am starting to realize I focus too much on what a kid can't do instead of what he can do). But, I really like the kid and love his fit on our roster. A poor man's Jordan Goodwin at this point in his career. I will take my chances with kids who compete like he does.

Hellems is going to be interesting for me to follow over the next 5 years regardless of where he ends up for the mere fact that I have watched him dozens of times throughout his high school career (still one more season to go) and thought he wasn't a high major player and then after a weekend had to change that opinion (kid killed it). I think for him it ultimately comes down to whether or not he is hitting from the perimeter because he has to be more of that wing forward type where his deficiencies are not exposed and he is not a mismatch if he is not making shots from there (a below average athlete at this level, so needs defenders to respect that shot). Not a good player comparison, but I think he has to play how Kim English did his senior season where his lack of foot speed isn't a disadvantage against forwards on either end and then just battle his tail off defending and rebounding in the paint.

I know this isn't what you are saying - but if Hellems ended up having a career like Kim English, that would be pretty damn successful. Would love for that to happen. 

[bauman]

31 minutes ago, doowop said:

I think his performance this weekend will give SLU a better chance of signing him.  Some coaches may have second thoughts about offering him now, maybe.

and one of those coaches might just be TF.

[TheChosenOne]

57 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

I know this isn't what you are saying - but if Hellems ended up having a career like Kim English, that would be pretty damn successful. Would love for that to happen. 

Right, that is why I tried to use a specific season where Kim English was forced to play the 4 at 6'6, 200. Kind of a role I could see Hellems succeeding at as we see teams playing skill over size more these days. Prior to that Kim played as a 2/3 due to his shooting ability, but he kind of saw himself as a go-to scorer and his deficiencies really showed as he wasn't able to separate from the wings guarding him to get good shots off or stay in front of penetration on the other end. But then when he was forced to play the 4, he suddenly had mismatches that often ended up being in his favor as his lack of foot speed and ball handling ability were not as much of an issue. Was often able to get whatever shot he wanted on the perimeter when playing that stretch 4. And defensively he could stay in front of guys to at least force guys to shoot over him. That is the position I see Hellems having success at since he can really show his skill playing that position without being exposed. Similar to English he is a minus athlete for a wing at the major college level and lacks the size to really play in the paint. He is not as good of a shooter as Kim, but he is more capable of finishing in the paint and rebounding than Kim was. With our roster, that role might exist and not cause many issues since it looks like we will have a lot of guys on the wing who can help rebound and such and attack off of the bounce creating space for him.

[wgstl]

8 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Right, that is why I tried to use a specific season where Kim English was forced to play the 4 at 6'6, 200. Kind of a role I could see Hellems succeeding at as we see teams playing skill over size more these days. Prior to that Kim played as a 2/3 due to his shooting ability, but he kind of saw himself as a go-to scorer and his deficiencies really showed as he wasn't able to separate from the wings guarding him to get good shots off or stay in front of penetration on the other end. But then when he was forced to play the 4, he suddenly had mismatches that often ended up being in his favor as his lack of foot speed and ball handling ability were not as much of an issue. Was often able to get whatever shot he wanted on the perimeter when playing that stretch 4. And defensively he could stay in front of guys to at least force guys to shoot over him. That is the position I see Hellems having success at since he can really show his skill playing that position without being exposed. Similar to English he is a minus athlete for a wing at the major college level and lacks the size to really play in the paint. He is not as good of a shooter as Kim, but he is more capable of finishing in the paint and rebounding than Kim was. With our roster, that role might exist and not cause many issues since it looks like we will have a lot of guys on the wing who can help rebound and such and attack off of the bounce creating space for him.

One thing about Kimmie tho, he was so damn smart .  He would study the footwork of the bigger players to know how to guard them.  

[Old guy]

This is a good explanation of the way you see Hellens, now then if Ford agrees with your vision we may be all set to go. If he has a different vision of Hellems we may go in a different way. It is up to Ford and Hellems

[TheChosenOne]

1 minute ago, Old guy said:

This is a good explanation of the way you see Hellens, now then if Ford agrees with your vision we may be all set to go. If he has a different vision of Hellems we may go in a different way. It is up to Ford and Hellems

I try, I am all over the map on Hellems so thanks for not calling me out on my flip flopping. Where should I email my unsolicited take on Hellems? I am sure it would be appreciated. @Pistolcan attest to my lack of a life the past few weeks as I have really locked into the end of the AAU season (taking care of a new puppy and watching AAU hoops has consumed far too much of my time).

[3star_recruit]

51 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

I try, I am all over the map on Hellems so thanks for not calling me out on my flip flopping. Where should I email my unsolicited take on Hellems? I am sure it would be appreciated. @Pistolcan attest to my lack of a life the past few weeks as I have really locked into the end of the AAU season (taking care of a new puppy and watching AAU hoops has consumed far too much of my time).

I know you're concerned about his average foot speed but in the high school and AAU games I've seen, Hellems plays pretty good perimeter defense.

[RiseAndGrind]

Kind of seems like a stretch at this point. Mostly low major offers at this point based on his Twitter 

[3star_recruit]

Not all offers are immediately committable.  Pearson is a long, quick wing who has improved a lot in a short time.  He's a Kentucky kid who played well in Eddie Ford's (Travis's dad) Hoopfest.  If Pearson continues improving and we still have a scholarship to offer in the spring, you'll be glad we got in early.

[NextYearBill]

32 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Not all offers are immediately committable.  Pearson is a long, quick wing who has improved a lot in a short time.  He's a Kentucky kid who played well in Eddie Ford's (Travis's dad) Hoopfest.  If Pearson continues improving and we still have a scholarship to offer in the spring, you'll be glad we got in early.

how do you convey that type of offer? "if you keep on improving we have a spot for you.... we'll let you know in a few months".... ??

[RiseAndGrind]

23 minutes ago, NextYearBill said:

how do you convey that type of offer? "if you keep on improving we have a spot for you.... we'll let you know in a few months".... ??

Interesting topic.  On the radio this week ford had that situation happen at EKU. Ford offered a fringe player early (wanted players A and B more) and the kid tried to commit site unseen. Ford had to back peddle a little bit and try to slow play the kid ("come visit the campus... make sure you really like it.")

[VeniceMenace]

5 hours ago, RiseAndGrind said:

Kind of seems like a stretch at this point. Mostly low major offers at this point based on his Twitter 

What?! Pearson can slam dunk--MAN-CHILD!!!

Close the deal TFord!!!!

[RiseAndGrind]

This article doesn't mention SLU for Hellems.

http://scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/Article/Las-Vegas-Emerging-2018-SF-Jericole-Hellems-has-group-of-schools-105603521/ 

[Taj79]

I know Pistol has Hellems listed as "offered" by SLU but he is not listed as such on VerbalCommits.  The article above doesn't even mention Mizzou let alone us yet some have reported that even Frank speculates he'll be between us and Mizzou.  Are we sure we offered him?

[JohnnyJumpUp]

14 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I know Pistol has Hellems listed as "offered" by SLU but he is not listed as such on VerbalCommits.  The article above doesn't even mention Mizzou let alone us yet some have reported that even Frank speculates he'll be between us and Mizzou.  Are we sure we offered him?

I would assume he wouldn't waste his time talking to Hellems everyday if there was no offer.

[3star_recruit]

Just because SLU and Mizzou want Hellems doesn't mean that he wants either of them.  Like Torrence Watson, he's being presented with better options.  It's going to be very hard to get a top player from Chaminade to stay in town and attend a mid-major school.  Chaminade is as close to a blue blood basketball program as we have in St. Louis.

[WVBilliken]

Funny thing.......Jordan Goodwin, Hashan French, Carte'Are Gordon are all considerably higher ranked than Hellems and they are at or committed to SLU.  Same goes for Fred Thatch who is ranked similar to Hellems.  Maybe Ford is stringing Hellems along because he has higher options.  Time will tell.  I worry that Hellems is a "flash in the pan" that had one good week that may never be repeated.

Personally I would  rather see Reece get the last scholarship if it goes to a St.Louis area kid.  I think his ceiling is higher than Hellems.

[Old guy]

I worry about players who are inconsistent like Hellens is, however I do not presume to have enough knowledge about the sport that I would decide for or against him. All I can, and will, do is to leave it up to Ford. 

[WVBilliken]

32 minutes ago, Old guy said:

I worry about players who are inconsistent like Hellens is, however I do not presume to have enough knowledge about the sport that I would decide for or against him. All I can, and will, do is to leave it up to Ford. 

Agree 100%.  Looking forward to the last commit.......hopefully another top 150 guy.

 

[3star_recruit]

For the record, Hellems was off-the-charts at Peach Jam, very good at Three Stripes and good in Las Vegas.  He's had maybe 3 bad games out of 16 in three tournaments.  I understand the concerns about prior inconsistency but Hellems has been balling the whole month.  He'll be a top 150 guy when the next round of rankings comes out.

Jared Rhoden should be a top 150 guy but since his team hasn't been as successful as BBE, he'll probably get overlooked.  Hope we get an official visit.